Sometimes the snow knocks you off balance - especially in deep powder - and there is a readjustment forward needed. This movement of the hands forward is not a plant in my opinion.
A pole plant to me is when the pole and the pole tip is angled forward of the hand.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Nick_H, Ali Ross...................... he still selling his wares then?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
DB wrote:
meh wrote:
DB, the Reine Barkered video is a great example of needing to be able to do both. Pole plants on planned moves and none on those of necessity.
So pole plants are useful but not always necessary?
Interesting that Hirscher doesn't plant his poles but does get his hands forward even if has to punch them forward to recover position. Have wondered what Hirscher would do with his hands / poles if the Slalom poles were only knee height (i.e. he didn't have to knock them out of the way).
Hirscher plants his poles, look closer.
My 2c on this, for intermediates a pole plant is unnecessary, I hate it when i see instructors teaching a pole plant to people still wedge initiating, but for advanced/expert skiing it's a positive thing, yes you could ski without the pole plant, but Mike has yet to explain how it could be better for an expert skier to ski without the plant. Every good skier I've ever skied with does it, why change?
A pole plant to me is when the pole and the pole tip is angled forward of the hand.
It's a little more than just that Mike! Depending upon terrain, speed, type of turn, and other control factors, the correct use of pole plant can set-up/pre-prepare the skier to effectively manage those variables. I ski on a "narrow" platform, somewhat like the "Classic Skier" video (on page 22 "Intermidiot" thread) using a "soft-touch" pole plant when appropriate, and especially when skiing bumps use pole plant/absorbtion/extention mechanism mostly (to half decent effect!).
BTW, loved your Japan Powder vids, and your skiing style is efficient/effective/stylish. Thank you for sharing!
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Wed 28-08-13 13:49; edited 1 time in total
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
DB wrote:
Mike Pow,
@ 0:09 of the first vid that looks like a pole plant/touch to me - you naughty boy !
zammo wrote:
DB, + 1
+2 and there is at least one earlier (on take-off) IMV.
Mike Pow I understand where you're coming from in terms of teaching up to advanced (I don't teach the plant until full parallel turning is accomplished) but beyond that - for real dynamism - pole planting works and is a great tool to pass on.
Evidently, from all of the videos you've posted, you use it too and so do your 'advanced' students. Your less advanced students don't and, AFAIC, no-one's arguing that they should. However, until they do their flow and dynamism will be affected.
As Haggis_Trap said earlier, in response to you saying something about waving ski poles around
Quote:
a proper pole plant is a subtle flick of the wrist
This is achieved best while maintaining a quiet upper body - not a rigid stance as displayed in many of your vids.
PS: I prefer your lady client's skiing in the last video you posted of her than the others - in consideration of her only having 4 weeks experience.
Im sure once you have mastered the pole plant you can choose to drop it for certian terrain, but I was taught it and to teach it in CSCF/APSI. Also doing it well vs badly is an issue I always see, wrist and forearm, so it dosen't kick your shoulder round at the end of the turn and spin you out of the fall line. flowa/Haggis_trap 2+
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
jimmer wrote:
My 2c on this, for intermediates a pole plant is unnecessary, I hate it when i see instructors teaching a pole plant to people still wedge initiating, but for advanced/expert skiing it's a positive thing, yes you could ski without the pole plant, but Mike has yet to explain how it could be better for an expert skier to ski without the plant. Every good skier I've ever skied with does it, why change?
I feel more relaxed and balanced and more prepared for the next turn when I don't pole plant.
My students agree.
The recommendation not to pole plant is part of bigger skiing philosophy that I teach and am continuing to refine.
I'm trying to simplify the learning process to enable recreational skiers to ski more of the mountain in all snow conditions safely, in control, with less effort and with a massive grin on their faces.
Having the poles to the side and using them as a lateral balancing aid is part of that bigger skiing philosophy.
If people want to pole plant and feel that they ski better when they pole plant then fantastic.
I've said as much earlier.
But in my experience people get hung up about how & when to pole plant at the expense of developing pivotting and edging skills.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Mike Pow, agree with your analysis - I guess there is no 100% right way to do anything, and pole planting is certianly massively less important than steering and edging. I think we are all saying similar things here.
Horses for courses.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
skimastaaah wrote:
Mike Pow wrote:
A pole plant to me is when the pole and the pole tip is angled forward of the hand.
It's a little more than just that Mike!
Is it? A genuine question.
To my way of thinking if the hand is ahead of the pole tip then that's balancing with the hands, or in the case of skating on the flats poling.
If the pole tip is flicked forward of the hand whether in front of the body or down and to the side of the downhill ski then that's a plant.
Quote:
Depending upon terrain, speed, type of turn, and other control factors, the correct use of pole plant can set-up/pre-prepare the skier to effectively manage those variables. I ski on a "narrow" platform, somewhat like the "Classic Skier" video (on page 22 "Intermidiot" thread) using a "soft-touch" pole plant when appropriate, and especially when skiing bumps use pole plant/absorbtion/extention mechanism mostly (to half decent effect!).
My biggest bugbear with the use of the pole plant is the skier has already determined where and when they're going to enter the fall line and make the next turn before they've had a chance to feel the terrain and snow conditions they're about to ski.
Most can get away with that on piste, but it's one of the factors why the transition from piste to unpisted terrain is so difficult for so many skiers.
Quote:
BTW, loved your Japan Powder vids, and your skiing style is efficient/effective/stylish. Thank you for sharing!
Thanks. My pleasure.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Mike Pow,
Quote:
I feel more relaxed and balanced and more prepared for the next turn when I don't pole plant.
My students agree
How would your students know when they haven't been taught it? (and/or are doing it badly). They've got no point of reference.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
flowa wrote:
DB wrote:
Mike Pow,
@ 0:09 of the first vid that looks like a pole plant/touch to me - you naughty boy !
zammo wrote:
DB, + 1
+2 and there is at least one earlier (on take-off) IMV.
Quote:
Mike Pow I understand where you're coming from in terms of teaching up to advanced (I don't teach the plant until full parallel turning is accomplished) but beyond that - for real dynamism - pole planting works and is a great tool to pass on.
Evidently, from all of the videos you've posted, you use it too and so do your 'advanced' students. Your less advanced students don't and, AFAIC, no-one's arguing that they should. However, until they do their flow and dynamism will be affected.
Please see my understanding of what constitutes a pole plant in the reply above. It may well be different from what you believe a pole plant is.
When I'm filming Nerys, Ian and others both my poles are hanging off my left wrist and I'm holding a Contour camera in my right hand like a 'Speed Gun'.
If the movement of my hands to stay in balance constitutes pole planting, then I pole plant.
My less advanced student (Nerys) has never been taught to pole plant.
My definition of dynamic skiing is higher tempo balancing, foot steering, and ski shaping. For me that doesn't necessitate pole planting. For you and others it does.
Quote:
As Haggis_Trap said earlier, in response to you saying something about waving ski poles around
Quote:
a proper pole plant is a subtle flick of the wrist
This is achieved best while maintaining a quiet upper body - not a rigid stance as displayed in many of your vids.
My students and I don't show huge vertical movement (flexing and extending) in the legs because we're looking to control our speed on snow more by ski shaping than pressuring the snow.
Quote:
PS: I prefer your lady client's skiing in the last video you posted of her than the others - in consideration of her only having 4 weeks experience.
Thanks I'll pass that on to her. I posted the first video of her to show her skiing more difficult terrain and more difficult snow conditions and how she coped with them.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Wed 28-08-13 14:55; edited 1 time in total
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Raceplate wrote:
Mike Pow,
Quote:
I feel more relaxed and balanced and more prepared for the next turn when I don't pole plant.
My students agree
How would your students know when they haven't been taught it? (and/or are doing it badly). They've got no point of reference.
Nerys is the only student I've taught from 'never ever' in the past 5 seasons.
The rest were taught pole planting by other instructors, and after skiing with me now choose not to do it.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Snowmoment wrote:
Mike Pow, agree with your analysis - I guess there is no 100% right way to do anything, and pole planting is certianly massively less important than steering and edging. I think we are all saying similar things here.
Horses for courses.
Indeed.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I think Mike Pow has a point, kids often learn quicker, I always thought it was because they focused on feeling it, rather than having it explained, however they will often go backwards when they do get their hands on some poles. In the NZ system they teach tapping the poles rather than the big pole plant favoured by BASI, having a wonky shoulder I tend to tap. There isn't necessarily a contradiction here, it's maybe an embarrassment of riches. Warren Smith is a big plant man but regards it as the a high level skill to be taught last. Maybe just need to delay it. I certainly wouldn't be with out them when things get tough.
Megamum, I agree largely with MP but would add along with the tail swinging you have a little stem sneaking in there. I would suggest focusing on pressure and completing the turn. Do it somewhere flattish first. It's mainly about fun, if the development stuff is fun then great, if its a source of frustration then back off it, there is only so much you can do in a couple of weeks a year.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I can get a bad pole plant used as a crutch can be counter-productive up to itermediate level but a well executed pole plant in the right circumstances is surely beneficial at an advanced level otherwise why do so many advocate it and why do I find it beneficial. Personally not a big fan of dogma and think it is best that skiers have all the tools available. Bad light is another example where I find a pole plant to give extra feedback is benefical for most people.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Mike Pow wrote:
zammo wrote:
DB, + 1
Sometimes the snow knocks you off balance - especially in deep powder - and there is a readjustment forward needed. This movement of the hands forward is not a plant in my opinion.
A pole plant to me is when the pole and the pole tip is angled forward of the hand.
I'd call it a pole plant - although I acknowledge it's a close call and not worth arguing about. For the record I do see your wrist flexed further forward at a point when you are recovering from a slight balance knock.
Good to see someone challenging the norm - skiing wouldn't be where it is today without such people. Nervy's skiing is very controlled for such a short time on the snow.
As you say in difficult conditions (powder, bumps etc) sometimes you get knocked off balance and the movement of the hands helps the recovery. I think we agree in that the pole plant on "normal" terrain (typically terrain skied by early learners) isn't critical but to recover in more difficult terrain you need to move the hands. For me touching the snow gives me another reference which helps me in such conditions.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 28-08-13 15:45; edited 1 time in total
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Last January I spent a week skiing off piste in St Anton with a guide from the Arlberg Ski School.
Much to my surprise he was telling us not to use a pole plant, so Mike Pow is not alone. I thought I had misunderstood him at first but I soon realised that I had not. He was telling us to use an up and down motion and if we needed to use our poles at all, to use them after coming up, not as triggers for the turn in the way that I suspect that most of us have been told before. He was saying that with modern skis and appropriate techniques, that pole planting was unnecessary.
I forget his name but I know he must have had at least twenty years teaching with the Arlberg Ski School and was very much a part of the St Anton establishment, however he was certainly not teaching the old fashioned Arlberg technique.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
richjp wrote:
...to my surprise he was telling us not to use a pole plant, so Mike Pow is not alone.
Indeed, Mike Pow is NOT alone - he's saying something that most other instructors agree with but dressing it up like it's a 'magic bullet' that he's invented and some people are falling for it
If you look at the rest of the thread you'll see that the other instructors are agreed on the lack of need for pole planting - up to a point. Beyond that point - the above intermediate / advanced skier point - is where the debate kicks in, not before.
...to my surprise he was telling us not to use a pole plant, so Mike Pow is not alone.
Indeed, Mike Pow is NOT alone - he's saying something that most other instructors agree with but dressing it up like it's a 'magic bullet' that he's invented and some people are falling for it
Never let what's already been posted get in the way of a good
Mike Pow wrote:
I was taught to pole plant, and was taught to teach pole planting in the CSIA and PSIA methodolgies.
When I was training for my PSIA Level 3 at Keystone, Colorado my instructor Annie Black taught a pole touch of the new uphill hand when the skis were already in the fall line and about to pivot or carve across the fall line.
This was done to stop the uphill / inside hand slipping back past the uphill / inside hip resulting in over rotation of the upper body through the turn.
Using this as my starting point over time I've found greater success at all levels, in all terrain, in all snow conditions by eliminating the pole plant and using the poles and hands as lateral balancing aids.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
For the instructors who do teach pole planting, when do you introduce it to your students please?
For the instructors who do teach pole planting, when do you introduce it to your students please?
Once they can make a good quality basic parallel turn its time to start thinking about poles.
There is no need for a pole plant before this point (as you say).
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Haggis_Trap wrote:
Mike Pow wrote:
For the instructors who do teach pole planting, when do you introduce it to your students please?
Once they can make a good quality basic parallel turn its time to start thinking about poles.
There is no need for a pole plant before this point (as you say).
On green pisted runs, blue pisted runs, red pisted runs, black pisted runs?
After all it is free
After all it is free
^ all ski runs are white
once someone can make reliable "basic" parallel turns on a blue / red grade slope then I would think about introducing poles.
introducing pole plants helps with timing, angulation & balance required for higher performance parallel turns.
i,e carving, steeper slopes, moguls, variable snow conditions.
IMHO a pole plant is nothing more than a subtle flick of the wrist and should never affect upper body stability.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Thanks.
Any vids or pics to demonstrate please?
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
nope...
next question
If you want to get dorky with technique chat then the "Doug Coombs folding pole" plant is a great example for steep terrain.
Coombs collapsed it back in during each turn so the upper arm doesn't get left behind on a steep slope.
Something I try to copy in my own skiing... (though folding pole plants not a technique you would teach someone who has just learned to ski parallel on a blue / red grade slope).
EDIT : Watch video of any good mogul / bumps skier if you want to see why pole plants are an essential skill. Obviously that skill needs to be developed.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Wed 28-08-13 18:15; edited 1 time in total
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Mike Pow, i think there is a great deal of wisdom in what you say. However, the bald statementbthat pole planting is unnecessary I think will confuse those who don't hear any more.
I will say also, that if it was more effective and/or efficient to zip line bumps without pole planing, the comp girls and boys would be doing just that?
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
under a new name, For MikePow it works for him, his method, and his teaching ethos. I don't think he actually says it is unnecessary as such, rather than his approach does not incorporate this in his methodology.
There are others (and I include myself) that perceive pole planting as an "assist" to developing control technique on challenging terrain. On easy-peasy-pisty-stuff I can see MikePow has quite a valid perspective.
Edit to add...... first thing I tend to focus on when challenged by steep/bumps/teflon/crap is getting set-up, and that always includes the correct pole plant.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Haggis_Trap, Slow-mo pole planting on mogul terrain.........................
Look at how the pole plant sets up the absorbtion/reployment of knees/feet/skis. Then the extension/avalement phase after the soft transition.
Mike Pow, I see good pole plants with a quiet upper body in your first video. Ironically, in my view that demonstrates exactly what a good pole plant should be like.
This is a good video about quiet hands and pole plants for high level skiing the bumps:
Elston, Patrick Deneen is on Haggis_Trap,'s video..................... your post is perfect to see the "soft touch" he uses on piste. Lovely!!
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Mike Pow, I'm glad you have stuck with the debate, it's an interesting read. I was encouraged to pole plant from the moment I started to lose the snowplough at the ski school in Switzerland and have vivid memories of 'plant the pole and ski around it' - I guess what must have been 8-9 years ago. However, pole planting was never something I 'got'. Instructor after instructor would try and get me pole planting, but it seemed an anathema. I'd be skiing as good as it got at the time then I'd try to introduce the plant and the feet would go to pot as the pole ended up in the wrong place and unbalanced me. So despite being encouraged to do something productive with my poles since the outset something obvious went wrong and I've ended up skiing most places without using them for planting.
So what do I use them for whilst skiing along? Well I suspect I rely on them for balance. I guess this because take them away from me and immediately it feels odd. Once the brain re-engages I can ski without them, but the day I dropped one under the bottom of a lift and needed to ski down with only one I had some real thinking to do - held in one hand a single pole felt weird - I settled for holding it out like a tea tray in front of me like the kids exercise at ski school.
I often looked at vids of me skiing and thought that I looked overly stiff and immovable, but having seen Nerys I think I look more like her in the upper body - she also has a slight stem in places too, but I suspect we will both lose that - I'm hopeful that I've more or less sorted mine out already.
So, now I've spent so much time sorting this plant out to the point where I can do it without too much hindrance do I keep it? Rob is adamant that it will help, and it seems convention to do so particularly at higher level skiing (I'd like to think I am capable of higher level skiing in time). I think for the time being I will try it, but in view of this thread I don't think I'm going to beat myself up too much if I catch myself forgetting it. The trouble is, if I read the thread correctly I am most likely to forget it when many of you will argue I need it most - on those steeps and small bumps where its getting tricky and I resort back to what I am comfortable with which will probably not include the plant
NB. I can't view the vids at the moment - I'm in the Travelodge and they are caning my data allowance - I'm already on my second top up and that's unheard of.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Mike Pow wrote:
jimmer wrote:
My 2c on this, for intermediates a pole plant is unnecessary, I hate it when i see instructors teaching a pole plant to people still wedge initiating, but for advanced/expert skiing it's a positive thing, yes you could ski without the pole plant, but Mike has yet to explain how it could be better for an expert skier to ski without the plant. Every good skier I've ever skied with does it, why change?
I feel more relaxed and balanced and more prepared for the next turn when I don't pole plant.
My students agree.
The recommendation not to pole plant is part of bigger skiing philosophy that I teach and am continuing to refine.
I'm trying to simplify the learning process to enable recreational skiers to ski more of the mountain in all snow conditions safely, in control, with less effort and with a massive grin on their faces.
Having the poles to the side and using them as a lateral balancing aid is part of that bigger skiing philosophy.
If people want to pole plant and feel that they ski better when they pole plant then fantastic.
I've said as much earlier.
But in my experience people get hung up about how & when to pole plant at the expense of developing pivotting and edging skills.
As I said, I agree to a point, people should start learning from the ski up, a pole plant is useless to a lot of people. However I still think it's essential for high level skiing, and the NZSIA and APSI would get upset if I trained instructors not to pole plant
Also not sure that having poles to the side and using them as a balance aid is any different to what every other ski instructor teaches...
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
There seems to be some useful common ground here that "pole planting" can be either unnecessary or positively unhelpful for beginner and early intermediate skiers. You do see people doing some decidedly peculiar things with poles. Mike Pow, said he thought that "pole dragging" and having the tips in contact with the snow was massively helpful and I expect many of us have done those exercises where you hold them out and try to keep both tips in gentle contact throughout the turn ("antenna poles"). Maybe more of that would be useful to many skiers, much of the time? Whilst at the other end of "ski photography" continuum to Mike I have sometimes felt, as I have followed a 5 year old or a beginner friend slowly down a nice easy piste with a camera (and no poles) that I am probably skiing better than I do a lot of the rest of the time.
I have also sometimes tried to persuade people (especially the very nervous ones who clutch them tightly to their waist, with knuckles which would be white if you could see them through the gloves) to let me carry their poles for a few runs, and ski without them. They generally refuse point blank (and wonder why they're completely knackered after 20 minutes). I've sometimes had poles taken off me by instructors for what seem to be perfectly good reasons and have often thought this should happen more often.
If there is a wide consensus that trying to "pole plant" can do more harm than good for beginner and intermediate skiers trying to do nice smooth round turns on unchallenging pistes (NOT moguls or steeps on which there is no consensus) it might be useful to focus on what we SHOULD be doing with our poles (e.g. the "antenna pole" type thing) or whether, and when, it makes good sense to ski completely without them.
Many of us never will be skiing zipper lines down steep bumps or hurtling through Japanese trees but could usefully be doing something more constructive with our poles (or maybe simply doing a lot less with our poles) as we make big turns down a blue or red piste. I do like the "quiet upper body" argument.
and another thought. Some of the most efficient and stylish-looking skiers I see on our local slopes are the piste patrol. Who are almost invariably without poles.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Proper moguls does require poles but mainly for leaning on to catch your breath after climbing up.
This thread has opened up some interesting discussion, plenty of ambiguity, and not a little confusion in my mind.
This is what I've taken from most of the replies to the words and vids I've posted :
1. The instructors on this forum who do teach pole planting / touching don't start teaching it until the student is able to consistently perform basic parallel turns on blue / red pisted runs.
2. The introduction of pole planting / touching teaching is done for the following reasons :
IMHO a pole plant is nothing more than a subtle flick of the wrist and should never affect upper body stability.
3. Some instructors recommend pole planting / touching to initiate the turn.
4. Some instructors recommend pole planting / touching after turn initiation.
5. Most are in agreement that advanced skiing terrain and snow conditions necessitate pole planting / touching.
6. In my own skiing and when teaching my students :
at the completion of a turn when the skis have travelled through the arc of the curve far enough and decelerated enough for my students and I to feel comfortable to unwind and commit to the fall line and the subsequent next turn the "trigger" for that action is the flattenning of both skis and allowing both skis to accelerate into the fall line.
This is accompanied by
the whole body following the skis into the fall line
the hands forward and wider than the torso, wrists cocked so you can see your own knuckles
pole shafts angled slightly backwards and out to the side of the torso and down towards the snow surface with the pole tips resting on or just above the snow surface approximately in line with the middle of the boot
As the balance is shifted to the new downhill ski there is a lateral movement of the hands to keep the pole tips in contact with the snow surface or just above it which is continued throughout the arc of the turn
There may also be a forward movement of either or both hands to remain in balance in undulating terrain or changing snow conditions
The pole shaft isn't flicked forward so the pole tip is ahead of the hands
The pole tips are not planted or touched on the snow surface
And this is why I wrote I believe I don't teach or practice pole planting / touching.
7. Commenting on the vids I posted most were in agreement that the movement of the hands to remain in balance constituted pole planting / touching regardless of whether
the pole shaft is flicked forward so the pole tip is ahead of the hands or not
the pole tips are planted or touched on the snow surface or not
8. The vids that have been posted to support learning and practicing pole planting have no relevance to the type of skiing I perform and teach.
The Mogul skiing is brilliant - brilliant technique, brilliant athleticism.
But not a level of competency my students or I will ever be able to achieve.
There is a world of difference between Mogul skiing and skiing moguls.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Thu 29-08-13 11:26; edited 1 time in total
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Great post pam W
After all it is free
After all it is free
^ Dude - your making this *way* more complex that it needs to be.
And your also confusing punters with less technical knowledge than yourself who may believe that poles are totally useless.
Quote:
The vids that have been posted to support learning and practicing pole planting have no relevance to the type of skiing I perform and teach.
Pole plants are still necessary for any recreational skier with an aspiration to ski bumps, steeps or variable snow well.
Though you can get by without them up to intermediate level of "basic" parallel turns on blue or red slopes.
The pole plant itself is a simple flick of the wrist. If done properly it will never affect upper body stability as you claim.
What does challenge most intermediate skiers is that the pole plant is usually made at the start of the turn - and they sometimes get confused with the idea of standing tall and planting pole simultaneously (they should also be banking or angulating into the next turn for higher performance skiing). However skiing is about making flowing movements which hopefully become second nature - rather than thinking about each turn as series of actions that must be performed as a check list.
If you have any aspiration to be a good skier who can ski the whole mountain then learning to use your poles properly is going to be beneficial. If you don't believe me then trying skiing a simple mogul slope or black run without your poles - its a real challenge.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Haggis_Trap wrote:
^ Dude - your making this *way* more complex that it needs to be.
That's hilarious.
So not pole planting / touching / flicking is more complex than learning to pole plant / touch / flick somewhere along the learning curve?
Quote:
And your also confusing punters with less technical knowledge than yourself who may believe that poles are no longer ever necessary.
I've offered an alternative to what is commonly practiced in reply to a question posed on this forum. Something that works for me and my students. Nothing more, nothing less.
If people want to continue pole planting, fantastic.
If they want to try an alternative, fantastic.
Quote:
Pole plants are still necessary for any recreational skier with an aspiration to ski bumps, steeps or variable snow well.
Though you can get by without them up to intermediate level of "basic" parallel turns on blue or red slopes.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this.
Quote:
The pole plant itself is a simple flick of the wrist. If done properly it will never affect upper body stability as you claim.
Never claimed this. I've criticised the forceful pole plant to initiate the turn that so many skiers perform.
Quote:
What does challenges most intermediate skiers is that the pole plant is usually made at the start of the turn - and they sometimes get confused with the idea of standing tall and planting pole simultaneously (they should also be banking or angulating into the next turn for higher performance skiing). However skiing is about making flowing movements which hopefully become second nature - rather than thinking about each turn as series of actions that must be performed as a check list.
And that is why I've taken the pole plant / touch / flick out of my skiing and ski teaching.
To simplify the sequence.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
^ I suspect you teach a lot of intermediate skiers on well groomed slopes or perfect powder ?
No one is denying that in this scenario that you can happily get by without planting poles.
However what would happen if you had a student that wanted to learn how to ski moguls ? (...or steeps ... or variable snow).
Would you stick by your dogma that pole plants "just confuse the issue" ?
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
