 Poster: A snowHead
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kez, We did that at New Year a few years ago. Took us just over 5 hours to get to Lyon from Calais, drove for another 2 hours ,then sat in a jam for 8! We now do the same on the day before changeover and stay somewhere overnight, get up first thing and mooch up to the resort. It's that or overnight for us.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Lorries are restricted on French autoroutes on a Sunday.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Lorries are restricted on French autoroutes on a Sunday.
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are they? I naively thought they were just having a day off. They are prohibited throughout the Alps on Saturdays when it's busy, but it doesn't seem to make much difference.
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Took us just over 5 hours to get to Lyon from Calais
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 Remind me not to me on the road when you are, Neraida. It's over 700 km.
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I've often driven to the Alps or southern France in the summer, but never for a skiing trip so I can't offer winter-specific advice. Personally, though, I've given up on the through-the-night thing as it's just too unpleasant and, adding fatigue into the equation, it's frankly dangerous for anyone without an unusual ability to defy their biorhythms.
Why not shake things up a little? Use Friday after work for packing and set off behind the crowd on Saturday morning. Drive a few hours in France, enjoy an evening meal and stop over before you get tired, then lazily finish the trip on Sunday. Ski Monday to Saturday and, having packed the car early on the final Saturday morning, find a motorway hotel a couple of hours away from the resort after your last day's skiing. Enjoy an evening meal and a comfortable sleep, get up early and enjoy Sunday's quiet roads. The only snag is that you waste (or feel as if you're wasting) a day of your accommodation, and you need to be sure that someone will be around to give you access on the Sunday.
Apart from being wonderfully relaxing and avoiding the the whole sleep deprivation thing, this approach leaves you much less vulnerable to bad weather or unexpected delays bu chucking loads of contingency into the system. And, while the chances of it happening aren't huge, I personally wouldn't want to be caught overnight in a winter storm on a French motorway.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I would go for driving all night in shifts. We can get from Belfast to south/east Lyon in about 15 hours. If driver gets sleepy just stop. No point in holding us all up while the emergency services mop up your remains 
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Jonny Jones there is an increasing amount of accommodation available from Sun-Sun now. Being caught in a snowstorm during the morning on a French autoroute is bad enough. Val Moret to Calais is a very long way in a blizzard.
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pam w, 485 miles. More accurate to say 5.5 hours. I guess that is moving somewhat, but the road is a good one and if the weather's good, it's very quick.
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| pam w wrote: |
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Lorries are restricted on French autoroutes on a Sunday.
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are they? I naively thought they were just having a day off. They are prohibited throughout the Alps on Saturdays when it's busy, but it doesn't seem to make much difference.
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Took us just over 5 hours to get to Lyon from Calais
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Remind me not to me on the road when you are, Neraida. It's over 700 km. |
Pam,
As I understand it most class 1 an 2 ( C and C+E) goods vehicles are banned from the road network between the hours of 10 p.m Saturday and 10 p.m Sunday. This is in addition to the Alpine complete weekend bans that come in and also bans on public holidays.
probably a good business in running a 7.5 ton vehicle regularly down to the alps as these are exempt.
Brian
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Have driven overnight 3 times now (twice this year) and it was fine.
e.g. Feb half-term we took an evening tunnel, drove until about 2am, slept in an Aire for a few hours and continued at about 6:30 for the final drive into the resort. We were parked up and in the dire shop by 9:30 and on the slopes shortly after.
We can ski happily all day, but by early evening are pretty shot.
Mind you, that was Flaine, which is an easy-peasy drive. Tignes at Easter was more of a challenge (a couple of hours on "normal" roads in pouring rain).
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Val Moret to Calais is a very long way in a blizzard
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Being pedantic, but it's the same distance whatever the weather  But agreed, we reckon 4-hours between the 2 points normally but can take a lot longer in bad weather, although rare when it happens it does have similar impact to snow on M25 eg everything stops!
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Lorries are restricted on French autoroutes on a Sunday.
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I thought refrigerated were allowed?
driving through night is an option but I couldn't do it, have worked a few nights recently and there is no way I would trust myself in car with kids come 3am. breaking up the journey is my preferred option with a night in hotely
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Boris, we were moving along, but we were behind two snow ploughs for most of the journey.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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We were on stretch near Troyes once when it started dumping, I have never been so glad to get of a road in my life it was horrible
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You know it makes sense.
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Personally I am a "go overnight fan". Take two drivers and swap every couple of hours and follow rule 4 from grey, Friday night is not too bad but sometimes during the week all the rest areas are full of trucks with exactly the same idea. And I find the ferry more reliable but less restful than the tunnel.
Getting to Dover will be the most stressful part of the journey
Do not try to be too early in the resort. If there has been snow the roads will be much easier to negotiate after some traffic has been up and down. May I suggest 08:00 as about the earliest.
Breakfast in a resort cafe is fantastic, you will soon forget about the tiredness. A posh breakfast on the ferry can also be a delight.
Talking books are a great way to pass the time while sitting on a deserted French motorway with the cruise control set at 130.
LittleRob, where was this
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Me to - I reckon 8-hours is comfortable including stops if roads are ok
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Poster: A snowHead
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Boris, we were moving along, but we were behind two snow ploughs for most of the journey.
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IIRC you are not allowed to overtake snow ploughs when they have the blue lights flashing. Not that you want to. They fair motor along.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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pam w, You make it sound like I'm driving like a bat out of hell (snot me, it's my husband and he mostly does the lot)  To be honest, the cruise gets set and there are few lane hoggers on the Autoroute, compared to the UK. There is the odd spurt on a long clear bit of road, but in a large saloon that has plenty of power, is very comfy and not tiring at all to drive (Audi A8 ) it's no biggie. No fuel stops are necessary if the tank's filled up at Auchan, Calais and there's no dangerous driving going on. Promise!
It takes the same amount of time to get from Bath-Durham and that's a 300 mile trip. It's all about the roads.
PS If you think that's bad, we averaged 96mph from the Mont Blanc tunnel to the port of Ancona, Italy a few years ago, but we were just keeping up with the natives.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Neraida, appreciate the roads are good and clear, but that's an AVERAGE of 88mph based on your timings
Perfectly possibly I'm sure, there are not that many toll booths after all, but rather you than me
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Neraida, it's nothing to do with the way I "make it sound". Driving at an average of 88 mph is way, way over the limit (you are likely to be doing the kind of speed, part of the time, which could result not just in a fine but the immediate confiscation of your car, at the roadside, if you are caught). And if one driver does all that without even stopping for petrol then it is, without a doubt, dangerous, however brilliant a driver he thinks he is.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Boris wrote: |
| Me to - I reckon 8-hours is comfortable including stops if roads are ok |
Me too. 8 hours is the average for us, Montalbert to Calais. Generally I reckon on a 12 hour journey time, from North West Hampshire to Montalbert. (ex CET)
Longest delay has been 3 hours on the roads and on a separate occasion a 3 hour delay on the Tunnel for which we received compensation. ( A refund and a free crossing)
It's getting quicker as the French Motorways/routes improve and more 30kph tolls are installed. Plus my car efficiency now means I can do the journey on one tank of fuel so no more fuel stops. However, the weather plays a part, last week it was driving rain most of the way there so many k's done at sub 120kph but bright sunshine all the way back 
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Wed 4-09-13 20:01; edited 1 time in total
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pam w, I suspect that Neraida, actually misinterpreted when they where in Lyon. Since you do not actually go into Lyon it is easy to think you are there, when in fact you are some distance away. This is why the next sentance says
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drove for another 2 hours ,then sat in a jam for 8
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It is about 2 - 2.5 hours from Lyon Airport (which is as close to Lyon as I get) to Les Arcs. So they should be well past Albertville by 2 hours before hitting the jam.
Normally I think of being somewhere south of Dijon at 5 hours (usually just) but on the autoroute the exact position of towns is hard to judge.
I may be wrong but I thought the car confiscation stuff started when you were way over the limit, 20 or more kph, but perhaps I am wrong.
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Averaging over 160km an hour will get your car confiscated and I do not do that, ever. Fines are in place for over 145km an hour between tolls and not once have I been stopped. In the past 3 years, we've done over 30,000 miles of continental driving without any issues with police.
My original post was to highlight the massive queues to the Tarantaise, not to shout about how 'clever' I am at driving fast.
Most of the time it takes longer (I drive through France at least three times a year). This was a single occurence. It could even been more than 5.5 hours, depending on what one's sat nav counts as 'being in Lyon'. My sat nav counts 'moving time' so add half an hour for breaks.
Having just interrogated my husband about the distance, he has looked at the route and says 465 miles. That averages at 84mph/135.3 mph on a non-stop trip.
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I think all this 88 or 96mph average thing is all willy waving, if Neraida had a willy that is. To average 88mph you need to be hitting 120-130 a lot of the time because those little slow downs you get for tolls, in/out of services, speed restrictions and other traffic, are really tough to make back up. Travelling at those speeds means you are often going 60mph faster than the traffic in the other lane, separated by just a white line, and you find yourself having to second guess what they may or may not do (especially lower powered buses, vans and lorries). Doesn't matter which car you're in, the concentration required to stay alive hour after hour is knackering. So, pointless.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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johnE, That's about right. Like I said previously, this was a comparison with the 40km jam to the resort that took 8 hours on a NYE.
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looking at a couple of websites, anyone clocking 25 kph over the speed limit (ie 96.8 mph in a 130 kph limit or 84.3 mph on a wet motorway) can have their licences confiscated. Not an AVERAGE of 25 kph over the limit!
There is no way you could average 88 mph without driving at over 96 some of the time. There are plenty of radar traps and radar detectors are illegal and result in confiscation of the vehicle. I reckon you are living on borrowed time, Neraida - maybe time to start sticking to the limits?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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pam w, you can't average 88 mph (142 kph) without hitting 195-200 kph for lengthy periods.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Thanks for the warning of which autoroutes and likely times to avoid
6 hours is about my limit after a day's work. 8 is kind of my limit on any form of transport, and I'll really be starting to become impatient and wanting to get there asap. Much prefer 6 hours then stopover and a couple of hours first thing and get on the slopes, than a straight 9 hours overnight.
Used to drive at 140kph for extended periods on German autobahn, where it is possible, but now prefer to save a few €0.01 on fuel and keep it a consistent indicated 125. Average will still be well down on those numbers.
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Bode Swiller, Yes of course, you're right.
pam w, I don't even know what distance we're talking about to average that speed anymore. 130km/hr is the speed limit however in good conditions and the distance comes in at under 6 hours if you do the maths. What would you consider a reasonable time to do that trip? Apologies for the light-hearted way I made my post. I ought to remember it's an internet forum afterall.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Boris, I went for 465, which comes out at about 84 - safely doable depending on your outlook/conditions blah blah and once south of Lyon, the road just doesn't allow for that kind of speed. I can't be entirely sure, but passed the exit for Lyon per se and unlike you, don't have to do any stops for fuel
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Wed 4-09-13 21:54; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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Neraida, certainly doable (if illegal) to travel at 84 mph on a clear motorway. But what isn't doable, as Bode Swiller has set out above, is to average anything like that without going way, way, over the limit at times. There is also a good deal of respectable research into road accidents which shows that concentration/focus will lapse after about 2 hours solid driving - that's why there are those signs telling you to take a break. Driving for 5 hours without a break is dangerous, especially hitting huge speeds.
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with the Disco we can get easily from Calais to errrr first service station on one tank
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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pam w, 84mph is the average I worked out! It's 3mph over the legal limit and I repeat, there is still some doubt on what the actual distance was. There was virtually NO traffic on the route, hence no reason to slow down and there are 3 tolls??
We always make a couple of stops, as I said above. The sat nav records moving speed and does not include breaks.
We had passengers in the car (female) that were completely happy. My husband is well aware of his fatigue limits and I and many others trust his driving. Anyone would think we'd been travelling at warp speed. I give up.
So what speed do you drive at on UK motorways and on French Autoroutes?
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Boris, We always smile when a Disco goes flying past us and then into the next services.
On one trip a distinctive Disco with TWO roof boxes went flying past us 5 times!
Some people never learn, or have more money than sense!
My 4x4 does around 45+ to the gallon (at sensible speeds) and has a 95 litre tank, so I can easily be smug
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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boredsurfin, 950 miles on a tank is the stuff of dreams. I'm guessing it's the 2 litre blue efficiency jobbie?
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boredsurfin, think you'll find that Jeep and Merc are still sharing chassis and majority of running gear despite the Fiat ownership of Jeep now. The issue is that the new Grand Cherokee with a 3.0 engine can be had barely used for £25k, whereas the Merc "equivalent" is nudging £40k. You have gotta drive to the Moon and back to recoup the difference in fuel cost.
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Bode Swiller, Flippin 'eck is that what the Merc costs, good job I'm not paying for all of it
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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boredsurfin, a lightly used ML 250 with a mild bit of bling is £39k ish on average. I just looked on Autotrader. Crazy.
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I give up too, Neraida, as you don't seem to understand the difference between the average speed (which you calculate was 3 mph over the speed limit) and your top speed during that journey, which will have been well over the limit given that you had to slow down for a couple of stops and 3 toll gates (and from memory I don't think the whole of that stretch is 130, either).
However, if your calculation doesn't take into account stops, then you didn't do Calais - Lyon in 5.5 hours, you did it in 5.5 hours plus stops, which (whilst still illegal) is beginning to sound a bit more sensible.
I try to drive a little below the speed limits, wherever I am driving, as it makes the fuel go a whole lot further. If it creeps up my satnav warns me, and I ease off. But on winter journeys to the Alps precipitation is not uncommon, then the limit is below 70 mph. I did quite a bit of driving in Italy in August and was surprised at how few vehicles passed me, when I was driving at the speed limit, except in the tunnels round Genoa when nobody drives at much less than twice the limit (which is very low). Maybe the Italian police are, like their French cousins, coming down a lot heavier on speeding.
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FAQ
Just difficult to maintain
