 Poster: A snowHead
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| pam w wrote: |
| Indeed. One wonders why some of the British ski schools don't amalgamate, so that they have enough fully qualified people to take on trainees if they want to (under the French rules, which presumably rule out small French companies too). How many different British ski schools does one French ski resort need? |
How many British instructors qualified through the French system rather than BASI are there in each resort? I'd bet half a dozen at at most.
Even if you accept the non French trained criteria there is the question of whether an ESB actually works against the high level of service most Brit schools are know for? Less of the eat what you kill, more of the arguing over spoils. Plus obviously less customer choice can't be a great thing.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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pam w, I don't think (but stand to be corrected) that that's a matter of law, but ESF practice.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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pam w, Your amalgamating idea won't work, the rules say 10 ISTDs qualified through the french system only. So all ISTDs are equal, but some are more equal than others - that's the OPs original point, it's a racist regulation. OK brits could theoretically go through the french system, or the brit schools could hire 10 french diplomés; but why, when we're all signed up to the EC treaties, should they have to?
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[quote="TTT"]Fatbob, I think that is fair from a british perspective but from my experience in Austria there are still hordes of the little darlings race training compared to those in the park. [quote]
Having spent the season in Solden, watching the junior racers from Langenfeld shredding the park in their lycra and race skis on a Saturday after they've finished training is great, especially as all the 'yo boys' on holiday look really poor in comparison.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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watching the junior racers from Langenfeld shredding the park in their lycra and race skis on a Saturday after they've finished training is great
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and some of them could probably even do it on XC skis!
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it's a racist regulation
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nonsense. It might be discriminatory, unfair, illegal, jingoistic and typically French, but race really doesn't enter into it.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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pam w, that depends on your definition. I read today of English and Welsh people found guilty of racially insulting each other with mild 'racist' abuse. All your other adjectives are OK anyway!
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Thanks for the feedback to my post, I'll try to respond briefly! I agree the ET has been done to death but laundryman's excellent posts mentioned "selction criteria" so I gave it a go.
jimmer Yup, I agree you can't put the cart before the horse with the languages, I was suggesting progressing to "fluency" as part of full-cert level, so at BASI 1 and 2 level for instance the requirement would be lower. Regarding measuring motivation I'll cover that below.
under a new name Thanks, although for full-cert I really do mean fluency, for two reasons:
1/ because this requirement for language and motivational skills needs to set the bar as high as the ET does, but in a relevant way. I envisage aspiring full-certs investing the time and money to immerse themselves in the language with the kind of dedication currently given to race and fitness training for ET.
2/ because only a fluent speaker can explain say the difference between weight and pressure, or the biomechanics of pelvic tilt etc. etc. in the way a mother-tongue speaker would. I don't think this is too much to ask for those paying good money to be taught in the most effective way.
Yes client feedback would be a good tool for measuring motivation, as is peer appraisal, trainer assessment, perhaps credit for extra-curricular activities, and as jimmer mentions request-percentage, shadowing etc. I also think a ski-teaching specific version of those clever psycological tests devised by recruitment agencies could play a part. Where I differ from jimmer is that I absolutely think this area requires "legislating" for, if it is to be a key requirement for selecting the best-of-the-best. Otherwise it will continue to have lip service paid to it instead of being a core requirement. I can't currently envisage the Sports Ministry goons hauling someone off the hill for say sneaking the class up the button-lift rather than enriching their experience by sharing the chairlift!! Funny maybe but this is the attitude the selection criterion should encourage.
[In reality as jimmer alludes to the assessments would probably show a lot of non-racers motivated by the love of skiing, travel, apres-ski etc. as much as wanting to teach people to ski; and a lot of ex-racers motivated by pain-aversion, unemployment, and tradition. It would be up to the examiners to determine who got credit for what!]
In fact the subjectivity of everything bar gate-skiing is the main reason for having some kind of (fairly handicapped) speed-test; but the trainers on the whole do a pretty good job with the other subjective modules, I think given good guidlines they could be relied on to give a fair "motivation" score too.
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pam w, Well I did mean racist with a small r, but since that word now has inflammatory connotations perhaps nationalistic, xenophobic, or one of your words would have been better! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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any instructor who regularly pitched up to work with a hangover could be marked down for motivation. 
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pam w, maybe he'd been helping to "motivate" his clients?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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maybe he'd been helping to "motivate" his clients?
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yeah, well, if that was the young and pretty ones, double black marks! 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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pam w, or maybe double gold stars?
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shep,
10 out of 10 for such a comprehensive reply. Fair play!
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| shep wrote: |
Thanks for the feedback to my post, I'll try to respond briefly! I agree the ET has been done to death but laundryman's excellent posts mentioned "selction criteria" so I gave it a go.
jimmer Yup, I agree you can't put the cart before the horse with the languages, I was suggesting progressing to "fluency" as part of full-cert level, so at BASI 1 and 2 level for instance the requirement would be lower. Regarding measuring motivation I'll cover that below.
under a new name Thanks, although for full-cert I really do mean fluency, for two reasons:
1/ because this requirement for language and motivational skills needs to set the bar as high as the ET does, but in a relevant way. I envisage aspiring full-certs investing the time and money to immerse themselves in the language with the kind of dedication currently given to race and fitness training for ET.
2/ because only a fluent speaker can explain say the difference between weight and pressure, or the biomechanics of pelvic tilt etc. etc. in the way a mother-tongue speaker would. I don't think this is too much to ask for those paying good money to be taught in the most effective way.
Yes client feedback would be a good tool for measuring motivation, as is peer appraisal, trainer assessment, perhaps credit for extra-curricular activities, and as jimmer mentions request-percentage, shadowing etc. I also think a ski-teaching specific version of those clever psycological tests devised by recruitment agencies could play a part. Where I differ from jimmer is that I absolutely think this area requires "legislating" for, if it is to be a key requirement for selecting the best-of-the-best. Otherwise it will continue to have lip service paid to it instead of being a core requirement. I can't currently envisage the Sports Ministry goons hauling someone off the hill for say sneaking the class up the button-lift rather than enriching their experience by sharing the chairlift!! Funny maybe but this is the attitude the selection criterion should encourage.
[In reality as jimmer alludes to the assessments would probably show a lot of non-racers motivated by the love of skiing, travel, apres-ski etc. as much as wanting to teach people to ski; and a lot of ex-racers motivated by pain-aversion, unemployment, and tradition. It would be up to the examiners to determine who got credit for what!]
In fact the subjectivity of everything bar gate-skiing is the main reason for having some kind of (fairly handicapped) speed-test; but the trainers on the whole do a pretty good job with the other subjective modules, I think given good guidlines they could be relied on to give a fair "motivation" score too. |
As I said re. your first post, all good ideas, but still really not sure how many instructors would be left to teach if these were implemented as as prerequisites. The original thrust of this thread was that Brit schools should be able to train instructors, and I still think that's a good idea, working towards full cert is much better than forcing everyone to comply to a very high standard from the start.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| jimmer wrote: |
| The original thrust of this thread was that Brit schools should be able to train instructors, and I still think that's a good idea, working towards full cert is much better than forcing everyone to comply to a very high standard from the start. |
They'd probably still have to do the TT to train in France though.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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"Phinto Tsering Sherpa will remind mountaineers on the Mont Blanc of best practise and code of conduct on the mountain"
Nepalese kick boxing perchance?
Bam!
Kapow!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| davidof wrote: |
| jimmer wrote: |
| The original thrust of this thread was that Brit schools should be able to train instructors, and I still think that's a good idea, working towards full cert is much better than forcing everyone to comply to a very high standard from the start. |
They'd probably still have to do the TT to train in France though. |
Allowing BASI 2s and 3s with TT to work for British schools in France could still be a step forward though as they would be working alongside BASI 4s and trainers.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
2/ because only a fluent speaker can explain say the difference between weight and pressure, or the biomechanics of pelvic tilt etc. etc. in the way a mother-tongue speaker would.
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This easy for anyone speaking the rudiments of English since it involves simple vocabulary and sentence structure. However, many native English speakers get this wrong as well
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FAQ
