 Poster: A snowHead
|
|
Martin Bell, bloody hell. I read the first link and felt that some vindictive ass had thrown me back into a physics class!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Martin Bell, thanks for those links. Just one point with respect to weight distribution for non-racing skiers. That was why I picked a couple of photos of youngsters - in fact the second one was only 9 at the time. They both were skinny, lightweight kids, with no strength training at all at that age, just their technique, ability and fitness to rely on.
Reckon you've hit all the nails squarely on the head as usual. Perhaps the majority of us should be prioritising core strength/reaction, balance, and fitness!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Martin Bell, Stunning pics. Apart from the angle/pressure/articulation questions here, in pic 2 it looks as if the skier has already put pressure into the tails of the skis to accelerate away from the gate. Am I right in thinking that differing pressure in each leg will allow both skis to follow a parallel track by bending in different arcs behind the boot but allowing the tips to appear to con/di-verge. Looking at the lead contact points on each ski also implies that the outer one has far more mass going into it?
Reading Epic threads always makes my head hurt and want to kill something  but then I'm a boarder
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Masque,
| Quote: |
makes my head hurt and want to kill something but then I'm a boarder
|
It's not your fault and you can get treatment now, you'll be ok 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Masque,
| Quote: |
Reading Epic threads always makes my head hurt and want to kill something but then I'm a boarder
|
Couldn't agree more... is there really any need to complicate things quite so much? I'm all for KISS. Although it undoubtedly helps to have a degree of technical understanding, don't think it's needed on such an "atomic" level. Doesn't make it any more fun!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
snowbunny, beanie1, It's great and extremely valuable to have informed debate leading to experimentation, consensus and application. Regrettably Epic contributors often don't get far enough outside their lower intestine to even get to the experimentation stage, let alone 'consensus'. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Without trying to put words into anyone's mouths, I thought a previous posting from someone who's "been there, done that" said pretty much the same thing in a rather more diplomatic manner!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
PG, That's me, ever the diplomat . . . I'll happily delete if anyone feels offended, but I'd not read through all the posts.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
...and some of that balancing/centering comes from having poorly fitted boots/bindings.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| Masque wrote: |
| Martin Bell, Stunning pics. Apart from the angle/pressure/articulation questions here, in pic 2 it looks as if the skier has already put pressure into the tails of the skis to accelerate away from the gate. Am I right in thinking that differing pressure in each leg will allow both skis to follow a parallel track by bending in different arcs behind the boot but allowing the tips to appear to con/di-verge. |
Yes, there's more to it than the pure ratio of inside/outside foot weight distribution, the fore/aft distribution also plays a role. Hence the "pulling the inside foot back", which helps put pressure on the softer, easier to flex, part of the ski in front of the binding, and perhaps helps compensate for less overall pressure than on the outside ski.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| easiski wrote: |
This is all excellent stuff, thank you Martin Bell for the fab pix. One problem I have, though is that I'm not sure we should be looking at Bode for an example. He seems to be able to do stuff on his skis (and ski in a very precarious position) that no-one else can manage. In these pix however he looked quite normal (for a WC racer!  ) I personally really like both Benni Raich and Rainer Schoenfelder for pure fab technique. I'd be interested to hear what you think. |
Those shots of Bode were all in the middle of the turn - it's towards the end of the turn where he gets on the tails and does stuff that you wouldn't recommend anyone to copy!!
Yes Benni is very neat - I couldn't find any shots with his shins not parallel - and he always seems SO relaxed. Here's a nice sequence:
http://www.ronlemaster.com/images/latest-images/slides/raich-bc-2004-sl-2.jpg
Another guy who I think is the epitome of how SL technique has evolved is Manfred Pranger:
http://www.ronlemaster.com/prints/slides/pranger-pc-sl-1.html
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Interesting upper body position at left-hand pole-touch there. He's centered on the new line already. I'd like some of that visualisation technique, yes I would.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
Martin Bell, thanks for those sequence pix as well. Benni Raich is just so calm with his upper body - wouldn't we all like to ski like that? Manfred Pranger is (IMO) one of the very best exponents of the ultra modern slalom technique. In fact, when trying to get students to keep their tibias parallel and tip the inside ski a bit more we do "Pranger turns". Partly because he's so extreme in the start gate, everyone can remember him - the kids love it!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| easiski wrote: |
| In fact, when trying to get students to keep their tibias parallel and tip the inside ski a bit more we do "Pranger turns". |
the "phantom move" by another name????
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
OK: I've got a question. I once smacked a toe (while boarding) into a short slalom pole . . . I thought my foot had exploded and needed a couple days off before I could even get my boot back on.
In all these pics above, these guys are traveling at considerable speed and the poles are getting whacked hard. The armour seems quite small and confined to just shin and forearm.
What's the trick?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Hitting it at an angle.
They are all glancing blows.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
easiski, yes and it was extremely effective! and it was explained without slagging off other ski instructors, claiming a proprietary teaching technique or describing it in overly technical jargon
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Arno, like I described a while back, leading with the inside knee.
(It was also something some of us discussed at Milton Keynes a few weeks ago)
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
Wear The Fox Hat, Will you be demonstrating this technique at the PSB? I'm really looking forward to my ar*e giving the glacier a 'glancing blow' and it not hurt!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Masque, no. I won't be demonstrating any technique. Or if I do, it will be the wrong way to do things.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Masque,
I'm no expert as I'm only just learning slalom but you hit the poles with your hand and shin guards. If you get it wrong (like when you're learning like me!) it can hurt a bit. But generally when you're learning you're not going so fast so won't hit it so hard. Also, skiers have hard boots so if it hits your foot your toes are protected!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Masque, beanie1, is right - ski boots are definitely better for hitting things with! Hit a slalom pole with anything except your protection and it bl**dy well hurts - but these guys are TOUGH! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
By the way, Masque, very gracious of you to care about a hurt glacier.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
comprex, given my dietary based contribution to global warming, I do have to consider its feelings. (and my split infinitives)
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
Arno, like I described a while back, leading with the inside knee.
(It was also something some of us discussed at Milton Keynes a few weeks ago) |
I presume that's similar to using the hips to initiate the transition, although to move (twist) the hips back into the hill does tend to move both knees at the same time. Although I suppose leading with the inside knee has the effect of pulling the outside knee with it.
Is that a drill, or a desired method of skiing?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| marc gledhill wrote: |
I presume that's similar to using the hips to initiate the transition, although to move (twist) the hips back into the hill does tend to move both knees at the same time. Although I suppose leading with the inside knee has the effect of pulling the outside knee with it.
Is that a drill, or a desired method of skiing? |
It's a technique to get skis on edge - I guess it is both a drill and a method of skiing.
There's no hip movement involved.
As you say, the point of it is to get the outside knee coming along too.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
marc gledhill, I'd agree with Wear The Fox Hat! Again! What you're really trying to do is get the skis moving in the right way. When an instructor asks you to think about your hips, bum, knees, shins etc etc s(he) is looking for something that clicks with the punter and gets him or her to put the skis in the right position. At various stages, I have thought about initiating with my backside, inside knee, outside leg. All these things are means to an end rather than an end in themselves. A bit like a "swing thought" in golf, I suppose.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
Wear The Fox Hat, Arno, got you, so it's horses for courses but with a common goal.
So whether angulation or weight distribution is more important depends on the individual skier and what they're trying to improve on at that time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
marc gledhill, I (and I think WTFH) was really just talking about angulation which seems to have been established as the most important thing. Weight distribution, so the consensus seems to be, follows from getting the angles right 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Arno, totally. I think the idea of weight distribution comes from the days of straighter skis, when you moved your weight to the outside to make a turn, shifting your hips, whereas now we try to work on keeping your hips and upper body as quiet as possible, and let the skis do the work for us.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Take a look at this skier...
Her "weight" has not been put onto the outside ski. All she did was point to the side she wanted to turn. This was enough to get her inside leg, and then her outside, to bring her into a turn.
At higher speed, and with a wider stance, you'd probably notice more of an angle between her legs and her body. (and I wouldn't make her point to the turn, but then it wouldn't be as funny to watch...)
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Wear The Fox Hat, Curiously enough I do a rather similar thing with a lot of my students! I call it the "signpost turn", and you point your inside arm along the inside ski (at around shoulder height) and then keep it there through the traverse (we're talking novice - middling), change the arm just as you begin the next turn. this looks a bit silly, but stops rotation in it's tracks. the student has to do it every turn for about 3 days for it to become a habit, and when relaxed the arm & hand should fall into a really nice positon. they all get the feeling that the arm is leading them into the turn. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
easiski, the move in the pic was taught to me as the "Saturday Night Fever turn"
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
This is exactly as I've thought about boarding. If we consider that for most of the time we're travelling down at whatever comfortable angle to the fall line we want and in a neutral body posture . . wherever we point, we'll go, as it puts weight (force) into the guiding edge. It's learning to be subtle in that weighting that makes us appear smooth or clumsy skiers/boarders
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Good job my car has a bonnet - nobody can see if I've moved the engine far enough to the outside in each turn to get the perfect weight distribution
Has a sunroof as well, so up-unweighting is no problem....
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
