 Poster: A snowHead
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One of the biggest problems I have with boarders is that they have a tendency to fall down... lie there for a bit... then just get up and go without looking uphill
They seem to think that having just fallen they are not starting down hill... but having stopped they are... this makes them totally unpredictable... they may sit there for another 20minutes - or pop up any time... I want some tennis balls with "look before starting downhill" printed on them to throw at them 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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paulio, you dressing down for the trip then 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Megamum wrote: |
| I wonder if such people were to voluntarily wear the equivalent of an L plate or a tabbard of a known colour, whether that would encourage other more experienced snow users to give them a wider berth where possible. |
I think that's a good idea, but it would never happen. A lot of skiers, unfortunately, go because it's fashionable and probably wouldn't wear an L plate or an equivalent. Plus, the people who cause most of the accidents don't want to be seen as a learner, even though they probably should be.
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| uktrailmonster, having spent the past ten years working with such 'yoof', I maintain that your stats are rubbish. Ratio of skiers to boarders has always been about 50:50 and is quite possibly changing in favour of skis as the 'nuskool' thang becomes the cool fashion. Idiot dangerous behaviour is generally the preserve of young males regardless of their mode of transport. |
What stats? You just made your own assumptions. Where I ski, the majority of teenagers are on boards. I don't have a problem with that, but they are the group I watch out for most closely on the slopes regarding potential collisions. I'm also sticking with my other point that mixing snowboarders and skiers on the same slopes increases the chances of collisions due to their differing lines and sighting. That and generally more crowded slopes of course. When the ratio of skiers to boarders was 100:0 (it hasn't always been 50:50) you never had the now very common issue of a boarder sweeping across your line with their back toward you. These are not hard stats, just my own personal observations over many years. I'm not anti-snowboarding at all, but I am generally more wary of them than other skiers. You can pretend they don't have any issues if you like.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
Where I ski, the majority of teenagers are on boards. I don't have a problem with that, but they are the group I watch out for most closely on the slopes regarding potential collisions.
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I have to say that I agree with that. I have never been in a collision thankfully, but I've come close a few times, each of which was involving a boarder. Some of that may be my lack of knowledge as a non-boarder of the blind spot over their shoulder but as each of these near incidents happened with the boarder approaching me from behind, I doubt this is that case, and I'm now always very wary when I hear that scraping noise of a board approaching. It does seem to me generally that boarders have a harder time slowing or changing direction than skiers. I may be wrong but that seems to be the case in my experience.
I have nothing against boarders (but I do like the rivalry banter!  ), and I'm certainly not suggesting that skiers are without fault. I was never taught rules like stopping below someone, or even general mountain rules at ski school. I think that generally there seems to be a lacking in manners and mountain etiquette, and that's what is causing a significant amount of accidents.
Some accidents are just that, and as such inevitable, but if everyone was aware of their surroundings, gave each other enough space (difficult on home runs I know) and generally knew and followed the basic mountain rules, then there would be a drastic reduction in accidents, injuries and ultimately deaths.
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Once upon a time skiing was the preserve of a privileged elite who could afford it. Boarders didn't exist, chavs hadn't been invented and Russians stayed at home. The pistes were empty save for the fortunate few who had mastered the fiendishly difficult task of getting down the hill on inch wide planks that were 7 feet long.
On the rare occasions that two such individuals should brush against each other, moving at their stately 4 kph, it would be a case of 'Oh I'm awfully sorry Jeremy, please do let me buy you a snifter at the next watering hole'
Times change. Deal with it.
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Other than a week long course with a BASI 1 (was BASI 1 originally the top level?) instructor 4 years ago when safety formed part of the course, no other instructor has discussed any mountain rules.
Every TO I have been with has included basic mountain rules in their welcome packs. Ski Esprit made particular reference to basic mountain safety in their chalet welcome.
When I started skiing I joined the SKGB and through various topics I garnered quite a lot of useful info.
Suggestion: When someone joins snowHeads, would it be a good idea to notify new members of basic mountain rules, or direct them to a sticky with that information?
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| Quote: |
Suggestion: When someone joins snowHeads, would it be a good idea to notify new members of basic mountain rules, or direct them to a sticky with that information?
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Definately, I think that's a great idea. The only problem is the rest of the Mickey Mouse skiers and snowboarders who don't have the common sense to come on this forum! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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How about you must pass a mountain etiquette test to purchase a lift pass?!
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| 2000overdrive wrote: |
It does seem to me generally that boarders have a harder time slowing or changing direction than skiers. I may be wrong but that seems to be the case in my experience.
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For sure you can stop or change direction more quickly on skis. Good snowboarders compensate for this with no problems, but the less experienced can soon become dangerous. As can out of control skiers of course.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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c'mon people, everyone knows snowboarding yoooves aren't the most dangerous things on the slopes - this honour is reserved for Italian or Marseillaise snowlerbladers wearing jester hats 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| thebronsonite wrote: |
| How about you must pass a mountain etiquette test to purchase a lift pass?! |
After you, sir!
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| thebronsonite wrote: |
| How about you must pass a mountain etiquette test to purchase a lift pass?! |
No, but it might be useful to hand out a basic guide with each pass with a warning that passes could be confiscated for flagrant abuse of the code.
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You know it makes sense.
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Chasseur, Actually a lot of piste maps I have seen DO have the basic 'rules of the piste' printed somewhere on them, and a warning along the lines you suggest.
The rules are also shown on dirty great signs at many lift stations, usually in the form of er, 'amusing' cartoons showing the consequences of not following them.
I think some individuals (generally classed as 'yooves) probably treat them with the same (lack of) respect that they apply to most rules. 
c'est la vie.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Axsman, yes I have seen them on maps, though having just looked at a Zillertal example, there is nothing at all about "rules of the piste", although there is plenty of room. Given some of the responses on this thread I'm not sure it's just 'yooves' who are ignorant of the rules - not wishing to sound pompous or pious though 
Some chairlift pylons have advice notices - perhaps another idea?
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Poster: A snowHead
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I'm steadfast in my belief that it's not people who are wantonly disrespectful of the rules, or 'da yoot' who cause the most accidents. It's people who have made a mistake whilst doing something that's quite hard.
The brazen idiot category do exist, but I reckon ordinary fallible humans outnumber them.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Chasseur wrote: |
Some chairlift pylons have advice notices - perhaps another idea? |
I particularly like the one on Teepee at Sunshine Village reminding you that jumping off the chair halfway up is frowned upon.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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paulio, Not sure about that. I take it you drive a car? In which case you'll note there are lots of brazen idiots around. It's not really any different on the slopes, except you don't even need a license 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Yes there are, but driving's easier than skiing/boarding.
I've been crashed into or somehow caused to fall by every demographic imaginable on the slopes I reckon - yes, including some definite 'maverick arsehole' types, and I've done a few desparately stupid things myself, far sillier than anything I'd do in my car (despite some posters imagining me to be a boy racer in a tricked up Nova who does 80mph through housing estates in some other thread from ages ago).
PLUS, a lot of the time you shout at somebody in your car, or beep your horn, or mutter 'stupid cock' under your breath, I STILL reckon that in most of those cases the person in the other cockpit wasn't some odious cavalier punk laughing in the face of 'the man', it's usually just someone who has made a bad decision for one reason or another. Like 'not being infallible', for example.
I think so anyway.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I wouldn't say driving is easier, but there are less beginners about. IME most accidents (road or piste) involve 1 innocent party and 1 stupid idiot. In the case of skiing/boarding, I agree that incompetence is probably a big factor too.
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| Quote: |
| The two chalet staff where we stayed in April were both boarders as it happens, and they had no qualms about going onto steep off-piste, alone (not even keeping sight of one another when in a group) and with relatively lowly technique, at level 4 avy risk and didn't even know what a transceiver was - they were fascinated to look at ours. Scary scary |
| Lizzard wrote: |
| eng_ch, those ones are dangerous largely to themselves, which is their own problem. |
Although this may be perceived as a minor point, I don't entirely agree there, Lizzard.
I'd say a team that has to try and rescue them when they trigger an avalanche, or seriously hurt themselves in a high avalanche risk area are in a fair amount of unnecessary danger.
As far as more dangerous slopes these days go, I'd say after reading everyone's posts and reflecting on it briefly, that the sheer weight of traffic at certain times is the crux of the matter.
I'm really very new to skiing, and only have 8 days on snow, but fortunately skied in Colorado at the start of Dec (Breck, Vail, Keystone, A-basin), and it was relatively quiet. In that time I only saw one collision, and it was a reckless boarder doing stuff he shouldn't have been on a piste right by the top of a lift where there was heavy traffic.
There were many times in the week where I got a bit out of control due to my lack of experience. Had there been many people around, the chances are I might well have taken someone out. Luckily I got away with it every time.
Other factors like reckless yoofs, and people attempting terrain they shouldn't be exacerbate the problem IMO, but aren't the main cause.
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I've never really felt threatened on the piste (although some tard at the EoSB came within inches of colliding with me at mach 2 at the bottom of Portette got me thinking), but I've witnessed some atrocious and truly dangerous behaviour in the park. So many people have no concept of park etiquette and do utterly stupid things such as cutting you up, not leaving any sort of gap between them and the person in front of them on jumps, sitting on the landing for years when they fall, etc etc etc. I can cope with speeding idiots on the piste, but the park truly scares me sometimes 
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Lizzard,
| Quote: |
your stats are rubbish. Ratio of skiers to boarders has always been about 50:50
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....pot/kettle/black?!
The ratio of skiers to boarders in europe has never been anything like 50/50 in my 23 years of skiing and snowboarding, and as Peter S says, if anything the number of boarders is getting even less, with the new wide skis removing most of the previous benefits of snowboarding which saw it grow so much in the '90s. Note that I am not having a go at boards, I love mine but compared to skis they are really just toys.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Axsman, neither do I but I've been told as much and can well imagine it!
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Can you all please let me know which resorts you all go skiing/boarding in, so I can avoid them in future?
After 20 years skiing, whilst having skied in many resorts across Europe, the US, Canada and indeed Africa, I have never had the misfortune to have had an accident involving another person. I have seen them in front of me, and heard the carnage further up a slope behind me, but am always careful enough to look after number one, and to ensure that I do everything I can to ensure that I am not placed in a position of peril.
So, to summarise, let he who is without sin cast the first stone 
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You know it makes sense.
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Guvnor, Well I can (almost) match that. It's rather less than 20 years ( I only started in my 40's, but I have only bumped into anyone else once. This was in my first week of skiing, and the lady in question and I were both slowly traversing a gentle green from opposite directions, both in snow ploughs, and both approaching the middle of the piste together. We both noticed each other and both realised that we were destined to 'meet', but neither had the presence of mind to do anything about it.
The inevitable impact was low speed, resulting in a sort of mutual hug rather than a crash, and we both apologised profusely in a very British sort of way.
Other than that I have a clear record.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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When we were in the Grand Massif at New Year the pistes seemed far busier than I'd ever known them there (we have a property there and go quite a lot). We noticed there seemed to be a proliferation of young, typically male, 'doody' types in boarder style gear on twin tips treating the pistes like the park and paying no heed whatsoever to those around them.
There's a reason that male drivers in the 18 - 25 age range have high insurance premiums - they drive excessively fast, often without thought for other road users and are more likely to have accidents (this is well known) and that sort of attitude translates to how they use the pistes. I know that this is controversial and I'm sure you've probably discussed it a million times but I think there needs to be piste patrols that have the power to confiscate the lift passes of those in serious breach of the rules.
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Poster: A snowHead
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The last time I was crashed into (where it wasn't my fault, which it has been once or twice), it was a middle aged woman, and on the same holiday my dad got completely wiped out from behind (no sniggering at the back) by a French bloke who looked about 70.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| skimum wrote: |
| I know that this is controversial and I'm sure you've probably discussed it a million times but I think there needs to be piste patrols that have the power to confiscate the lift passes of those in serious breach of the rules. |
These already exist
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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uktrailmonster, well they must hide themselves very well coz I've never seen any evidence of them in that role i.e policing, anywhere I've skied.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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skimum, Certainly happens in the US/Canada. Try there!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| skimum wrote: |
When we were in the Grand Massif at New Year the pistes seemed far busier than I'd ever known them there (we have a property there and go quite a lot). We noticed there seemed to be a proliferation of young, typically male, 'doody' types in boarder style gear on twin tips treating the pistes like the park and paying no heed whatsoever to those around them.
There's a reason that male drivers in the 18 - 25 age range have high insurance premiums - they drive excessively fast, often without thought for other road users and are more likely to have accidents (this is well known) and that sort of attitude translates to how they use the pistes. I know that this is controversial and I'm sure you've probably discussed it a million times but I think there needs to be piste patrols that have the power to confiscate the lift passes of those in serious breach of the rules. |
Comedy post. Parody-esque.
Personally it's old people that scare me most on the roads/pistes. Ignorant of the gradual degradation of their spacial awareness and motor function they wreak havoc and seem to think it's everyone else's fault (signified by a wag of the fist/ski pole as they leave the bewildered victims in their wake).
That said I'm a "male, 'doody' types in boarder style gear on twin tips treating the pistes like the park and paying no heed whatsoever to those around them" and therefore a tad biased. I'll also be in the Grand Massif area come the first week of Feb so, skimum, beware! Mwahahaha
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Tommy4681, just an observation......I'm not against young, male 'doody' types, I've got a son and a nephew that fit that description and I agree that there are scary piste/road users in all age ranges. However this was the group that I was most aware/nervous of.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Tommy4681, but the accident stats (ski or car) don't bear your view out at all.
As a bloke who pranged a few motors aged 18-25 - the "its all the old gits who are to blame" mentality, comes along with the poor risk assessment and lack of patience of the younger bloke.
Good luck btw
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uktrailmonster, Not in France AFAIK after the case in Val D. Our pisteurs can't do anything about it, neither can instructors, and there aren't enough skiing policemen. In any case they're just as likely to get a mouthful or be threatened as the rest of us.
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FAQ
Sounds like an extract from 'On the Piste' 
