 Poster: A snowHead
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| comprex wrote: |
eng_ch, not the same in all details, but the extension is similar. Yoda's experiment requires far less out-of-static-balance sensation.
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Yes. I'm worried about concepts at this stage more than degree. If I overcook it, I'll stack it anyway
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Yoda wrote: |
| Does that movement involve any "heel pushing"? Moving the skis by "heel pushing" involves rotating the whole ski around a vertical axis which passes through the tip of the ski. Moving the ski by "rotary, steering or whatever you like to call it" involves turning the ski around a vertical axis passing through its centre. |
The answer is "yes" it involves "heel pushing" as that is the effect I feel - it's the consequence of what's happening and is where my heels end up - BUT the vertical axis is through the centre. So we are, in fact, singing from the same hymn sheet, just defining our terms differently it seems. Phew 
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| Yoda wrote: |
eng_ch, sorry I didn't intend to cause any  's  Let's see if I can describe more meaningfully - if you are travelling straight down your nice gentle slope and you want the parts of the skis in front of your feet to deviate to the left, say, then this must mean that the parts of the skis behind your feet move to your right of the "straight (fall) line" that you have hitherto been travelling down. So you are right, the skis do cross the fall line. The big question is, do the skis move to that angle by you "pushing out your heels" as you put it, or do you feel that you can impart a "twisting" movement to the skis by using your feet and legs in a way which I am finding difficult to describe in words but is very easy to feel when you do it  If you sit on a chair lift without a foot rest can you turn both skis together (that is, rotate them around the notional centres of the skis directly beneath your feet) using your legs? The answer I hope is yes  Does that movement involve any "heel pushing"? Moving the skis by "heel pushing" involves rotating the whole ski around a vertical axis which passes through the tip of the ski. Moving the ski by "rotary, steering or whatever you like to call it" involves turning the ski around a vertical axis passing through its centre. |
OK, I verily believe that I can do that like an absolute charm on the piste. When I try it in powder, nothing happens, the skis don't seem to rotate at all. (Then I try and force the issue. Then I fall over.) Why? Is it just because I'm being too impatient?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| OK, I verily believe that I can do that like an absolute charm on the piste. When I try it in powder, nothing happens, the skis don't seem to rotate at all. (Then I try and force the issue. Then I fall over.) Why? Is it just because I'm being too impatient? |
As I struggle through this mire of "concept-grasping disorder", upon reflection I think most rotary movements I've hitherto done on piste tend to be quick - because they seem to be intended for speed control or rapid reactions. If you're happy with the speed and not a danger to yourself or anyone else on piste, then why rotate when you can edge? So - from the excellent helpful posts above - it could be a working hypothesis that you/we are trying to effect these movements too quickly - for the purpose of speed control because we are not yet comfortable with the speed/balance ratio in powder? I've been working on upping my ambient speed on piste for this very reason, so that I'll be happier with the requisite speed in powder - but it may well be that I've not got the balance thing nailed on a less firm surface underfoot. I wonder if it's like the difference between balancing on a boat and on dry land?
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eng_ch,
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could be a working hypothesis that you/we are trying to effect these movements too quickly
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I'll go with that.
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I've not got the balance thing nailed on a less firm surface underfoot
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And that.
Please will you let me know how you get on next week?
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Hurtle, shall I measure it in volumes of snow swallowed??! 
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brian
brian
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eng_ch, Hurtle, do you two really think as much about all this when you're actually trying to ski ? No wonder it's hard going !
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brian, very fair point
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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brian, hehe. No, the point of this exercise is to find things to try with a view to being able to feel what's right so I don't have to think so much! The rest is a communication exercise (are what you call apples the same as I understand by apples)  In fact, on thinking about it, the whole thing is a communication exercise because I clearly haven't understood what I've been told/instructed in the past. This "take it back to learning-the-alphabet basics" is actually very helpful
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Yoda, enjoy and thanks a million! I've got a week to try this out in now and, if there's any fresh, I've already found a good slope to play on
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brian
brian
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eng_ch, looking at your piste map, I am liking the look of that lift at the rhs above Flims with no marked pistes. In fact there is a lot of itinerary action going on there. Are they trying to go after an off-piste market ?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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brian, yes I think they are, but that area is also the main attraction in the summer. How long that lift survives and what it is replaced with when it goes is another question, though. You see, the lift is very old and the lift company say it costs 10 times more per passenger to operate than any other lift, they want to decommission it early, before the concession ends, and don't want the costs of replacement. The Gemeinde on the other hand is adamant that some sort of link up there must stay otherwise they can wave bye bye to summer business. So what will happen is the subject of some hot discussions, especially on the Alpinforum that you directed me to. Personally I think it would be darn shame if they lost that as a skiing area as the controlled freeride areas are definitely a USP. However, there is also a lot of serious back-country off the back of the ridges and you can ski as far as Elm if you want and are able. I keep meaning to get the ski touring map for the area for refernce
Now you see why I want to get this powder thing cracked!
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brian
brian
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eng_ch, sounds like a bargaining position to me.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Yoda, thanks from me as well, and I hope I'm not too late to wish you a great time. You too eng_ch,
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Four years ago I had two massive vertigo and panic attacks when on an off piste improvers group in St Anton. Which was quite daft, because technically I was the best skier in the group. I felt quite embarrassed about it, and I'm also quite competitive and can't stand not being good at something so I've been really practicing hard these last couple of years and now I'm by no means an expert off piste, but I can ski most pitches in most conditions, and manage to look ok doing it. A few tips I've picked up whilst I've been learning-
Steep is your friend up to a point. Too flat a pitch and it'll be grabbing at your skis making you feel unstable, and out of control. Speed is most definitely your friend.
Having a bomb proof stem turn is worthwhile, it'll get you out of most situations, although to ski off piste stylishly you need many different skills, as the way that you turn depends on snow conditions and terrain.
When you set off, point down the fall line initially and then turn out of it, rather than start off across it then turn down into and across it as most people do.
Some find bouncing on their skis a few times before they make their first turn helps them get a rhythm.
Make gentle movements as if making love to a beautiful woman.
Fat skis help.
Get someone to show you how to put your skis on in deep snow.
Fall over a few times, you'll soon find it's part of the fun, especially when the snow is deep.
Get some lessons.
Go out with a guided introduction group.
Keep on practicing, it will click, and if you can ski reasonably competently on the piste, then there's no reason that you won't be able to do it off piste.
And at the risk of starting a huge row and derailing a thread, if you really want to learn to ski off piste and powder then go to one of the North America resorts that let's you ski where you want inbounds and that gets huge amounts of snowfall, like Whistler for example.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Kramer, OMG I'm approaching that...
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| eng_ch wrote: |
| Hurtle wrote: |
| OK, I verily believe that I can do that like an absolute charm on the piste. When I try it in powder, nothing happens, the skis don't seem to rotate at all. (Then I try and force the issue. Then I fall over.) Why? Is it just because I'm being too impatient? |
As I struggle through this mire of "concept-grasping disorder", upon reflection I think most rotary movements I've hitherto done on piste tend to be quick - because they seem to be intended for speed control or rapid reactions. If you're happy with the speed and not a danger to yourself or anyone else on piste, then why rotate when you can edge? So - from the excellent helpful posts above - it could be a working hypothesis that you/we are trying to effect these movements too quickly - for the purpose of speed control because we are not yet comfortable with the speed/balance ratio in powder? I've been working on upping my ambient speed on piste for this very reason, so that I'll be happier with the requisite speed in powder - but it may well be that I've not got the balance thing nailed on a less firm surface underfoot. I wonder if it's like the difference between balancing on a boat and on dry land? |
Wha? Really, it's not that complicated. If you are going too fast, fall over - sounds like you do this already, that stops you. Seriously, skiing is really easy - skiing well is hard, but thats just finesse. Learn that later...
How many concepts do you need to grasp? Lean a bit left, go a bit left. Lean a lot left, go a lot left. Lean too much left, fall over: Learning curve - no-one ever learns any other way. It's all about going, not stopping.
Hic.
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Kramer, great stuff, thanks!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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kitenski, agreed that it's about more than powder but the other reason that I'd recommend North America in the policy of letting people ski anywhere inbounds which means as a relatively inexperienced skier you can just get on with it.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Kramer, thats so true, the in bounds "off piste" skiing in aspen was as good as any i have seen anywhere, and before i went i had only had one days off piste with a guide in iscghl last year.
and now after a week trying things out on all kinds of pitches i now feel able to give it a go anywhere. heliskiing here i come
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Kramer wrote: |
| kitenski, agreed that it's about more than powder but the other reason that I'd recommend North America in the policy of letting people ski anywhere inbounds which means as a relatively inexperienced skier you can just get on with it. |
The downside to that is that all the easily accessed, easily straightlined terrain is tracked out by the second hour.
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comprex, depends where you go...Whistler maybe
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You know it makes sense.
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kitenski, yes, I can see where that is! Thanks. The other place that seems to be good for playing on is the Falera run.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Sharkymark, it is true of about any area in NA that actually gets powder and is large enough to be called a destination resort. Rule of thumb: If there is "night life", there ain't no beginner powder.
For example, I used to really like the Strawberry Express area at Snowbasin to take beginner powder skiers. The layout is absolutely perfect for beginner powder skiers who are actually good on random chopped terrain, as it is shaped like an upside-down funnel.
Thus, the steeper, narrower section at the top got tracked out fast, and formed fairly dense crud or porridge that most piste intermediates can handle if they can handle the visual impression of it. Then, when their hyperkinetic energies were worn down by jump turns or whatever high-exertion method they used to handle the top, the wide part of the funnel arrived, a very gentle open alpine meadow that anyone could just straightline, or play with very easy, very low-effort turns on. The pre-exhaustion actually helped matters, as one would be less tempted to overcorrect, oversteer, with sheer panicky muscle power.
Unfortunately, it has been discovered for like 4 years at least and is now tracked out entirely, an hour after the storm ends. Much like similar areas at Snowbird (Mineral Basin) or Alta or Brighton or PCMR or Breckenridge or ...
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Poster: A snowHead
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comprex, fair enough! I was thinking about the smaller places.
eng_ch, is that the ridiculously long drag on the glacier?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Sharkymark, I'm not gonna name them.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Sharkymark, no it's the ridiculously long drag on the face between Crap Sogn Gion and Crap Masegn
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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eng_ch, Great report, keep 'em coming. Hope the noggin's OK!
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Hurtle, noggin fine, neck less so - really sore and weak from under the ears forward to the base of the neck and lower abdomen muscles feel rather strained (and I have a strong core). Fortunately I've just been prescribed some strong NSAIDs for the week to be used as necessary after the doc diagnosed a Morton's Neuroma on Friday ( ) so they should help
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eng_ch, oh dear, really sorry to hear that. Maybe lay off experimental moves for a short while, and get yourself better first? Sorry to hear about the foot as well. Hope everything improves soon.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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bTW crusty off piste is the hardest there is to ski, so if you were trying it in breakable crust, you picked the hardest kind of snow!! If the storm on the horizion turns up you may have better snow shortly!!
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brian
brian
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FAQ
