 Poster: A snowHead
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elbrus, Sean Langmuir mentioned this to skimottaret and me last week. The L1 Coach is a three-day course which can be done indoors or in resort. The L2 Coach is a four day course and can only be done in a resort. You can do the L1 and L2 as a single week. BASI will be delivering these course from July I think, L1 in Milton Keynes and L1/L2 in Hintertux. Those people who did the 'old' L1 Coach last season will be grandfathered in to the L2 award.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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How have they managed to reduce the days so much?
I did my grade 3 in 2001 - the final part being an 11 day course on snow. I didn't do the first course as I was allowed to proceed onto the final course because I had done my ASSI and had hundreds of hours of teaching behind me.
I'm based in Scotland so obviously see Snowsport Scotland members. As it is, over the last couple of years, where I work, we have been a bit shocked at some of the standards relating to people passing and failing their ASSIs.
Let alone some people's own ski-ing where I've seen some instructors barely able to do short radius parallel turns, the issues a number of us have with class safety and management are quite a concern.
What is happening?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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snowaddict, these courses we are talking about are the new coaching, not instructing levels. The BASI instructing levels still exist, now the coaching strand stands alongside it.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| elbrus wrote: |
BASI launch its new coaching scheme:
Level 2 development coach (BASI ISIA requirement)
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Purely academic interest (at present), but is that L2 Coach requires the candiate to have completed ISIA, or that L2 will be a required module of the BASI ISIA qualification?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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GrahamN, L2 coach requirement for ISIA.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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GrahamN, PSG is going to visit Eddy and Clive tomorrow to give them some details. This could be a great course for instructors or parents of kids in the race club. Both L1 and L2 are stand alone qualifications. The L1 is very realistic for good level dry slope skiers.
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| paulhothersall wrote: |
ski, ISIA is not enough, speed test (euro test) is in reality about 160 FIS GS points, no matter what it is supposed to be. L3 coach is about 80 FIS SL & GS points approx based on this years exams in Canada.
Now is BASI choose to water it down I would not expect the CSCF to keep accrediting them. |
Are you sure about 80 points for cscf 3?? ...On the eurotest, 140 - 160 would be about right most of the time..from what i've heard on bullet proof, steep courses when the pass rate is around 2% such as at Morzine, Auron the standard can be near to 100. Even with six openers many with WC experience and some with EC wins the level will vary a little for each test.
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elbrus, thanks, v. interesting. I had a brief chat with Eddy about that a couple of weeks ago, just prior to him running the Instructor L1 last week. I'll make sure I get the low-down from him soon.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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GrahamN, Ross Green is setting up a course for Milton Keynes and if you are interested i could let him know. They are actively trying to get parents, interested racers etc into this course to boost the number of club coaches and ensure that they have a good been given a good introduction. I personally think the L1 canadian content is excellent. I believe they are going to run it on consecutive weekends so no need to take time off. It is basically the CSCF EL course which you can check the course content on line now at the CSIA.
As elbrus, said it is stand alone and i heard from Ross yesterday that the L2 course will have some course setting in it as well.
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skimottaret, I may well be. I really hadn't been thinking about doing it for another year or so yet - I still have plenty to learn about doing it myself (and yes, I know that doing a coaching course will help my own skiing too) - but it could well be useful for our club to get something going a bit earlier than that, as it sometimes ends up I have to don the "coach" mantle myself. It sounds like Eddy (our slope manager) is going to be in the picture as well, which will be useful.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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GrahamN, i will keep an ear out as to the when but dates should be listed on the basi site within 10 days. with all of your race training you may find it a bit basic but Ross is a great coach and i am sure you will get something out of it...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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skimottaret, thanks. I got a copy of the brochure and dates from Eddy a week or so ago. Making my mind up. I understand the HNGBs should also be launching their scheme in the next week or two - may well be cheaper, but not clear as yet whether there will be any prerequisites (e.g. ASSI, stupidly low seed points etc) or not.
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You know it makes sense.
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GrahamN, IIRC the old ASPC did not require an ASSI as entry level.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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ski, it (well, it seems to be called ASC now) does at the moment - see posts on this thread on May 15. SSE website appears to be down at the moment  .
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Poster: A snowHead
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GrahamN, is the BASI brochure you have up to date? The L1 course is now 3 days not 5. I havent seen a new one and the course content and lenghts will have changed quite a bit since last year.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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GrahamN, Hmmm... looks like you need to get your seed points down a bit then !  It may be worth speaking with SSE (if that's the way you want to go) to see if they'll give you some kind of exemption based on race results.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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GrahamN, That's good that they have finalised the course brochures... I am curious about the L3 course requirements. Sean L was still mulling it over while i was in Aviemore but it sounded like the L3 will have a Eurotest pass as a prerequisite which would stop me going any further with BASI coaching courses....
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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^ Yup, they've finally launched it!
Seems to be a lot about coaching and not quite so much about instructing in the PR though...
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roga, Have you looked at the PDF link at the bottom of the page ?
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OK, so they've changed the names of stuff - but is there any difference from what there was previously? On that (pretty ropey BTW) graphic it doesn't look any different to me.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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GrahamN, Tim had said that not much would change.
For L4 Performance coach the requirement to set and referee FIS races and the workplace assessment and portfolio are new. The requirements for logged coaching hours at the lower levels are new too.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I've never really paid that much attention to the Home Nations stuff, but to an outsider this looks like it is mainly a name change, with the pathway leading to a renamed APC2. Other than Club Instructor (and boarding equivalent) there doesn't seem to be much to justify the "Instructing" claim in their tagline, and nothing which seems to support "Leading".
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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for me the good bit is that they have consolidated all the various home nation versions of ratings, which had always sounded to be slightly different into one single UK wide scheme, a step in the right direction IMO.
I cant say i understand the two different pathways shown as "performance" and "pathway"... You are a L2 instructor (old money ASSI) and then become a L3 race coach?
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| I cant say i understand the two different pathways shown as "performance" and "pathway"... You are a L2 instructor (old money ASSI) and then become a L3 race coach? |
They are different pathways, I admit that the page headings could be better though. The L3 qualification after ASSI isn't a race coaching one, it is L3 Coach (old ASC).
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You know it makes sense.
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rjs, the pdf's now on the SSE site are much clearer and explain the two pathways 1. performance coaching 2. instruction / recreational coaching
I think it is a bit confusing to have two types of "coach" ratings, why not just have called them L3 and L4 instructors... Guess that would have irritated current holders of ADC and ASC badges
Another thing i like in the UK coaching scheme is the 20 hours of post course shadowing before they award the coach badge. Will be interesting to see if BASI implements that as well.
I know BASI are keeping a close eye on the Leading qualification...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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skimottaret, My reading of the document you posted is that they expect most people to stop at L2 and just add extra modules.
I'm not so sure whether we have enough potential L3s to have one per club though.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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rjs, yeah i kinda agree and it seems like the L3 is tailored towards ISIA/ISTD's that can or have passed the speed test...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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If it took the HNGB 2 years and endless meetings to come up with this then that's very disappointing http://www.snsc.demon.co.uk/courses/pathway.pdf
Same old courses, different names! My kids could have knocked this up in 10 mins on one of their play computer programmes!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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elbrus, I'm happy with the new scheme.
What shiny new ideas would you like to have seen ?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rjs, Me too, I no longer need to keep up my ASSI, which means one less re-val to do  .
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I see on the BASI web site that listed under the Alpine Ski Teacher ISIA section there is a "Alpine Dev Coach Level 1+2 Conversion/Resit" course running in Hintertux at a price of £50 - Does anyone know what that might be ?
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david@mediacopy, Click on the "Coaching" parent to that page. It is described at the bottom.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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ah, I think I've found it 
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skimottaret (or anyone else), do you know if there's a similar brochure available to download for the BASI instructing levels?
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FAQ
....doing a "seed point" calculation on the SRSA Bromley race for me came out at 99.6 (or maybe about 107) 
. OK, not a realistic test, but a bit more encouraging than still failing to get a podium finish.
