UK HNGB lauch new scheme to counter the UK BASI course!

A snowHead

Home Nations combine to develop United Kingdom Snowsports Award Scheme

The status of the Snowsports’ instructing, coaching and leading qualifications has been the subject of considerable discussion recently.

Snowsport Scotland is pleased to announce that a way forward has been agreed for our existing and potential members that will ensure all their needs are met whether on snow or artificial slopes, beginners or high performance athletes, schools or clubs!

Snowsport Scotland, England and Wales are collaborating to develop one UK wide coaching pathway in line with the recommendations laid down by the guidelines of the UK Coaching Certificate. The guiding principle of the new scheme is that it meets the needs of its users and whatever the level, the individual qualifications are fit for purpose. Once launched, each home nation will organise its own catalogue and timetable of courses, the qualifications will be badged as the UK award, a UK calendar of training & development opportunities will be published and made available to everyone involved in Snowsports within the UK.

This new set of qualifications will be launched in May 2008. The table below is an example of what the pathway might look like and how existing qualifications might slot into different levels. Please note, this is an example - not the definitive product!

Level
Operation Range
1 Assist more qualified coaches, delivering aspects of coaching sessions, normally under direct supervision club instructor

2 Prepare for, deliver and review coaching/leading session(s) ASSI/ASBI/ASL

3 Plan, implement, analyse and revise annual coaching programmes APC1

4 Design, implement and evaluate the process and outcome of long-term/specialist coaching programmes APC2

5 Generate, direct and manage the implementation of cutting-edge coaching solutions and programmes New qualification

Although we will be working hard on our new pathway, there is still demand for training courses and examinations in the meantime so it is our intention to schedule a number of our original courses including ASL, APC, ASSI and ASBI (including refreshers).

N.B. for the time being there is no change to the status of your existing qualification!

Please go to our website: www.snowsportscotland.org to register your interest.

For further information please contact;

Jane Harvey
Chief Executive Snowsport Scotland
Tel. 0131 445 4151
Email. info@snowsportscotland.org

28 September 2007

A snowHead

glad to see that the moderisation programme that all the parties relunctantly agreed to hasnt degnerated into each organisation protecting its own training course revenue stream.

elbrus, is Jane Harvey the New CEO of SS??

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

skimottaret, I think so but am not really sure.

Its madness for the end user..US! Why could they not do this years ago before it went so far. Whats lacking here is consideration for people who want to get a qualification in snow sports. Now we have 2 instucting bodies in the UK, one of them now made up of bodies that formaly didnt recognise each others ASSIs. Cant see this working unless there are some strong credible people at the top.

Its just a shame.

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elbrus, If I am reading this correctly the supposed "agreement" that BASI had with the other bodies that they are the obvious candidate to deliver instructor and coach training is now out the window and it is back to where it was last year.... I guess the new CEO had to make her mark somehow...

All the communications from each of the camps have always treaded very carefully around not wanting to upset each other and all in principle seemed to agree with the concept of modernisation and a single unified training firm. but my guess is when the revenue from training shifted to BASI all bets seem to be off and it is now open warfare and an even bigger raft of competing qualifications.

Silly really but this is Britain and all quangos/committees/organisations can never seem to see the big picture and cling to their little empires of power. We see this everywhere. Sports, the olympics, trade organisations etc.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

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From SSS website
=================

29/09/07 - Snowsport Scotland – BASI negotiation
Snowsport Scotland has given due consideration to a proposal that BASI becomes the delivery agent, through Snowsport Scotland, for all coaching, instructing and leading courses previously offered by us, the governing body.

BASI’s final proposal has changed from the initial understanding whereby we, Snowsport Scotland, retained the governance of our snowsport qualifications to one where BASI controls quality assurance, course content, tutor selection, pricing policy and the ability to develop any new awards.

In the interests of our members, and as the governing body for snowsports in Scotland, the Board has voted unanimously not to enter into an agreement with BASI. This decision was based upon a loss of governance of the awards and a failure to meet the needs of our members in the BASI offering.

In partnership with Snowsport England and Snowsport Wales, Snowsport Scotland will continue now and in the future to provide coaching, leading and instructing qualifications to meet the needs of snowsports participants.

Please see further announcements for course details and plans for future course development.

After all it is free

From SSE (looks as their new CEO has made his mark as well)

United Kingdom Snowsports Coach Award Scheme

The status of the National Coaching Scheme's instructing, coaching and leading qualifications has been the subject of considerable discussion recently.

Snowsport England is pleased to announce that a way forward has been agreed for our existing and potential members that will ensure all their needs are met whether on snow or artificial slopes, beginners or high performance athletes, schools or clubs!

Snowsport Scotland, England and Wales are collaborating to develop one UK wide coaching pathway in line with the recommendations laid down by the guidelines of the UK Coaching Certificate. The guiding principle of the new scheme is that it meets the needs of its users and whatever the level, the individual qualifications are fit for purpose. Once launched, each home nation will organise its own catalogue and timetable of courses, the qualifications will be badged as the UK award, a UK calendar of training & development opportunities will be published and made available to everyone involved in Snowsports within the UK. As previously, if it is the aim of an individual to earn a living by becoming a professional ski instructor, the BASI qualification remains the preferred option.

This new set of qualifications will be launched in May 2008.

Although we will be working hard on our new pathway, there is still demand for training courses and examinations in the meantime so it is our intention to schedule a number of our original courses including APC, ASSI and ASBI.

What makes SSS SSE & SSW think that now they can agree on one ASSI award when up to now they couldn't agree on anything. BASI have given them every oportunity for amalgamation. Now I can see BASI bankrupting the home nations.

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Spyderman, I reckon it'll be more like their own members that may seal the deal in whatever now happens.

Hopefully something as extreme as bankruptcy won't occur. I'm not holding my breath but I believe it would help British Snowsports if the Home Nations would at least reconsider their decision to quit the Modernisation program.

The example of their proposed coaching scheme progression appears to have covered several levels - but what of the previously controversial ADC?

I understand one is being run this season. Let's hope, standards are positive and progressive in whatever the HNGB decide to do regarding their, currently tumultuous, coaching schemes.

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Bump... Does anyone know if this will ever happen or is happening?

SSS seems to be going down the drain finanically and from SSE/SSS websites i dont see any coach courses planned but they are running ASSI courses. could be just early days...

http://www.snowsportengland.org.uk/coaching_officials_03courses_calendar_2008-106.html

http://www.snsc.demon.co.uk/courses/courscal.htm

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good to hear, what is an ASPC, is it the new home nations course?

You know it makes sense.

skimottaret, ASPC is Artificial Slope Performance Coach. On checking the SSE website it had been renamed to Artificial Slope Coach. There was a document containing the new structure published earlier this year, ASPC/ASC/Whatever is the level below the equivalent of APC1.

The old APC2 had a prerequisite that you had been race coaching for at least three years, I don't know whether that will change.

It would be nice to be able to get the discounts on CSCF DVDs, but I don't know what other benefits you will get from CSCF registration.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

rjs, tah... didnt appreciate there was/is an entry level coach cert. below apc1. I always assumed that 1 was the entry level.

I have a personal interest in the dual cert CSCF as i may be working in the north america in the future and a CSCF L1 will be more relevent than a BASI L1 coach. If i carry on with coaching i would probably do the CSCF 2 as i dont think i could pass the BASI L2 version...

A snowHead

I glanced at the SSE course calender the other day and was pleased to see there was quite a bit going on.

A snowHead

Does anybody know how many clubs/instructors have already jumped ship to the BASI camp?

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

kevinrhead, it looks like we (Aldershot) have - our instructors were mostly ASSI/CI, with only a couple of BASI, until a year or so ago. I see we're now actually running an L1 course the week after next as a "partner ski school". And it looks like Southampton have got a similar arrangement two week later.

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kevinrhead, We (Lions) are staying with SSE.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

We (Norfolk) are waiting to have a presentation from Tim Fawke SSE and willafter discussion then make a decision on which way to go. I also seem to remember Spyderman, posting that Hemel had gone over to BASI

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I know all the xscapes centres are now BASI, and Tamworth are running 4 BASI courses this summer. Understand Hemel will be BASI as an overall theme, but will accept other qualifications (CSIA, SSE and SSS ASSI) although then be asking people to do the conversion. Manchester I am not tolally sure, but think same as Hemel.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

elbrus, there are current CSIA's and ASSI's at MK and i dont think there is any issue with hiring people with relevent qualifications wherever they are from but as far as instructor courses they are only doing BASI L1 and no longer offering ASSI training.

After all it is free

elbrus, The question was partly about clubs, not the commercial courses at snowdomes.

CFe only runs BASI courses but will accept other qualifications.

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As a club we've got instructors from SSE, BASI, CSCF, and the german and austrian schemes as well: working out equivalence is sometimes difficult. On plastic we're still pushing SSE CI, as it is relatively easy to do and we can run it all in-house. On snow, we've quite a few interested in going CSCF and are running on-snow training for these, but very few people are going BASI.

Only real hassle we have is when instructors want to do SSE courses which the others don't do, such as a race-setting course: SSE don't appear to accept instructors with non-SSE qualifications on these.

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Asked the guy at MK about qualifications. He said MK and the other centres will only be running BASI courses, however they do recognise other qualifications.

Asked PSG at Hemel same question, got same answer. Although he said if other organisations want to hire slope space to run courses that would be fine (ie SSE want to run a CI weekend). Hemel will not recognise the CI. Minimum qualification BASI level 1, ASSI etc.

You know it makes sense.

beanie1, Not involved in Hemel , however know a few of the people that are. Did some work at Wycome years ago.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I think Hemel only had 1 active CI working at the time of shut down, all of the rest were min L1/ASSI. Hemel was a strong SSS ASSI slope before the BASI switch, together with quite a few CSIA qualified, including the Technical Director of the new centre.
I think CI's will be welcome to undergo L1 training.

A snowHead

elbrus, when was that? As a coach or instructor?

A snowHead

pierre from the CSCF mentioned to me that Ross Green is now qualified to give CSCF courses for BASI. They have access to the latest stuff from the CSCF and whilst they continue pay whatever financial arrangement they have made they will be able to deliver BASI branded CSCF courses.

For the record I rally want the HNGB to be able to keep an affordable program, but the process of the NEW CSCF courses is way more in depth than the "old" level 1/2/3 they used to have. I also don;t think that the contents of the new DL/PL levels (correspond to 2/3) to fully certify are realistic for uk based clubs. Even in Canada for full time race coaches it is a hard task.

CSCF are suggesting 1-2 year for DL, and another 2-4 years for the PL for full time coaches. That just isn't an option I think for UK coaches, especially at BASI weekly course fee's.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

paulhothersall, skimottaret and I have done one of those courses with Ross, it was very good. We were told one of the reasons BASI went this way is because the old APC (although originally based on CSCF) just hadn't been updated in years, so was way out of date. So we are now

Like you say, the higher levels of CSCF courses are very hard, and really only for full time coaches. I may be wrong but I don't think BASI intend to go further than Level 3? And you are only required to do Level 1 to progress all the way to ISTD - i.e the higher levels of the coaching qualification are aimed at coaches, not instructors.

http://www.basi.org.uk/course_disc.aspx?did=13

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beanie1, correct, the level 1 is really the most cut down basic version.

I highly expect that most people with never do the 3 (PL), although the content and the standard is very high. The new Canadian standard is equiv to well under 100 FIS points more like 70. Not sure we have lots of active racers skiing to that!

Tim did his 3 back in 2002/2003 if memory serves, and a HUGE amount has changed since then. I would expect Tim to have kept up to speed though (so to speak)as a top level coach and awesome skier. The CSCF and Alpine Canada just have more time/bodies to through at the development of coaching.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

One thing to note is that to take the BASI L1 coach course you do not have to have any instructor qualifications. This may be true of the APC as well but i dont know.

This will open up the BASI pathway to lots of good skiers who are affiliated with clubs who would like to get some training and be able to coach. BASI want the Entry level to be very achievable and not too technically demanding with a target pass rate of 90%. Personally i would say the level of skiing required is probably around a L2 instructor pass and perhaps a good L1 should be able to make it.

I thought the course content and materials were excellent and it was a smart move to license the current 3 day canadian content and bolt on some of the old APM drills. As beanie1, said our trainer mentioned that the SSS APC content/literature is getting on for 10 years old. My guess would be that the BASI / CSCF will be much more up to date and thorough in terms of literature/DVD's than the HNGB versions.

I agree with paulhothersall, the HNGB should continue to have a pathway of affordable, local courses for CI's and the ASPC to cater for dry slope clubs

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skimottaret, The 'old' APC1 pass standard was about ISIA (based on the fact that when I did - those who failed had not completed the ISIA technical module).. so BASI L1 Coach must be a lower standard ?

I've done BASI, SSE and SSS qualifications...I don't think any organisation has a monopoly on good courses/trainers/coaches - or bad ones for that matter.

After all it is free

ski, I have seen people fail APC1 who had passed ISIA tech.

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Help!!

UK HNGB lauch new scheme to counter the UK BASI course!

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