 Poster: A snowHead
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snowbunny,
You've sussed me at last... Easiski told you didn't she...?? 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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JT,
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You've sussed me at last... Easiski told you didn't she...??
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I made an (un)educated guess 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| JT wrote: |
Dave Burt,
You can take it that way but I said advanced skills not nessecarily advanced skier. It all starts to get a bit foggy the more you ski |
Not sure that I understand the difference between someone with advanced skiing skills and an advanced skier - isn't the latter a consequence of the former?
To my mind anyone from around ski instructor standard up to professional racer is 'advanced'. Anyone below instructor standard but more than a few weeks on skis is intermediate. Anyone upto 4 or 5 weeks (maybe more, depending on the person) is a beginner. Very simplistic I know, but I just don't think it's possible for me (or in fact many people who start as adults) to become an advanced skier by skiing just a couple of weeks a year.
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Dave Burt,
if I saw you ski I'd know better one way or another, I think.
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Maybe at the EOSB! Then you will see just how intermediate I am (particularly if we've got ice/slush conditions)!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Dave Burt,
Ok, we are a bit out of sync with our definitions, no problem
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Parlor
JT wrote,
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| I don't ski on piste and I think 80mm is enough... |
Parlor wrote
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| typo? Sounds like you stick to the piste. |
If you want to call me liar I'm not concerned, just remind me of which shop you work in in Verbier and I'll remind myself not to shop there
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER,
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The other 40% on the Karma then 20% on my Apache Chiefs.
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So, wiiide skis then, and I see that I was not too far out with my guesswork
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[quote="Dave Burt"][, I will never have any desire or need to enter a terrain park - so what would be the point of getting twin tips? [quote]
Because they make the greatest rooster tails 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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JT, not sure why you think I'd be calling you a liar.  I was just questioning the statement. I ski piste. I don't know many people that don't ski on pistes, that's all... And on skinny skis too, you are good. And I don't work in a shop. I run a chalet with my wife. I'm a chef. Ski all day, 6 days per week... 
Dave Burt, I wasn't using the mobile phone as an analogy, just a little insightful probe...  Since you made it an analogy, I'd say it's quite a good one. You're a little a little scared of advancement ('recently switched to carvers' and your older style mobile phone). This isn’t a bad thing. To ski the skis I was suggesting you would need a quite modern technique, wide stance & long, carved turns etc. Would you consider this to be the way you ski?
BTW I have an older style mobile phone, no colour screen, mp3, camera or toys for me. But not out of choice...
I wasn't suggesting twin tips because I think you should have a twin tip (the B3 & B4 aren't twins). They are 'all-mountain' skis. When skied right you can enjoy the whole mountain, weird huh? Imagine a Volkl Supersport 6* that can "kick it" off piste. You get the Volkl Karma. You have to try something, maybe a Prophet 80s, a we 80mm underfoot  ), but nice and forgiving all round. You were asking for a ski that would make off piste fun without sacrifice on piste, try it. 
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parlor, why the insistance on going wider? I read a lot of people in various places saying they ski 50% off piste, or higher. You then ask them, and it's "50% off piste if it's clear blue sky and a perfect powder day", if you actually analysed their runs, you'd find it was 25% or less of their total time was spent off prepared runs, and the amount of time spent in decent powder is considerably less. That's why I think it's ridiculous to suggest something like a B4 as a one ski solution for a <4 week a year skier, who is probably going to be spending a lot of time in resorts and on runs not particularly famous for being bottomless pow.
And by putting a skier on something like a B4, you're going to be slowing down his ability to improve on-piste.
What I'm saying is that maybe YOU (and SZK) should try skiing on something of a <70mm width, and enjoy the fun that can be had there!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I think this descussion has gone on long enough. We'll have to agree to differ. Testing ski's is part of my job. Skiing, part of my life. This is what i do and am happy to help those open minded enough to negociate the marketing mine-field in order to help you get value for money. My opinions are mine, i'll express them here and i'll pull no punches. We no longer buy long, straight skinny skis, technology and the consumer have moved on. After, you make your choice.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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All I'm saying, if you really read my posts carefully, is try something new. You don't have to ski all my recommendations, just see what works for you. OK the B4 is a wide ski, how will you really know you're not going to like it until you've tried it, by testing something that is too wide for you, you can be comfortable that you have made the right choice.
When I'm testing something (skis, cars, whatever) I test a spectrum of different products and then choose the one that most suits me & my needs. Often the recommendations on here are for skis that prima facie are the same thing. Why are so many against what I'm saying? Different does not equal bad.
I'm just trying to get people to push the envelope a little bit. How many people would continue to stay on the piste if they could have a tool that would allow them to ski in the same way off the piste - and I'm not talking powder, just general off piste conditions. Suddenly the whole hill becomes your playground.
I still ski on skinny skis, we have a retro day No really, I quite like taking a pair of Omne Carve out and Biggie confessed to skiing skinnies above too ^ pay attention .
Are my recommendations, as someone that skis 5 months of every year on a reasonable range of different skis less valid than yours? You may believe your conservative recommendations are more accurate than mine but I'm allowed to play devils advocate. There are some people on this forum that will nail someone else’s ski suggestions quite well, some of the advice will be ultra conservative and then mine will be at the other end. If someone like Dave then skis are range of these recommended skis he will make the most informed decision he can.
I've said it before and I'm going to change my signature to reinforce this, I'm going to try and get you to ski something 10mm wider and 10cm longer than you might otherwise, it's in my nature.
I'm not a bad person...
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, could I suggest that YOU try somethign new:
Head iXRC1200SW (66mm waist) - just to see what it's like to have piste performance as part of your quiver
Nordica Hot Rod Nitrous (78mm waist)
Atomic Metron B5 (76mm waist) - this ski was probably the best ski of last year among advanced/expert skiers around the world, but I guess you know better than them!
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You know it makes sense.
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| the best ski of last year among advanced/expert skiers |
'Best' is an opinion. It is only 'best' because of a majority of opinions. It isn't a fact, and it doesn't help anyone. Likewise, that goes for poeple advocating wide skis for everyone.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
SMALLZOOKEEPER, could I suggest that YOU try somethign new:
Head iXRC1200SW (66mm waist) - just to see what it's like to have piste performance as part of your quiver
Nordica Hot Rod Nitrous (78mm waist)
Atomic Metron B5 (76mm waist) - this ski was probably the best ski of last year among advanced/expert skiers around the world, but I guess you know better than them! |
Have done, no bad skis out there, i spend January with the manufacturers each year in test and development for the following year.
I work consulantcy for Nordica, so know a littlel about their skis and could embarasse you there with a few facts.
Metron????????? Keep your Mono-Coque skis, they die with every turn.
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Poster: A snowHead
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SMALLZOOKEEPER,
Thats a good point, never tried them so enlighten... And how are Nordica's different to the metron contruction wise, if at all, as the shape is similar, isn't it?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, yes, please enlighten me. I'm always keen to learn new information, and try new ideas. Which Nordica manager do you deal with, by the way?
mark_s, I agree with you, it is only considered the best, because a majority of people said so, that doesn't make it the best for everyone.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
SMALLZOOKEEPER, yes, please enlighten me. I'm always keen to learn new information, and try new ideas. Which Nordica manager do you deal with, by the way?
mark_s, I agree with you, it is only considered the best, because a majority of people said so, that doesn't make it the best for everyone. |
I'll try and help, what do you want to know?
Stephano, you know him?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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There's only going to be one way to sort this out,
SmallZooKeeper and Foxy with the ski of their choice at fifty paces. Two falls, one submission or a knockout. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I think that challenge was made and ignored (page 2 of this thread)
Wear The Fox Hat,
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| Or better yet, put your money where your mouth is, and come ski some real powder with me in January. I'll be at the indoor slope in Alta/Snowbird. |
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I'll give him three free shots, then i'll redecorate.
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Let's make it fair, Foxy can decide what he skis on and what skis Biggie uses...
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It's good to have some strong opinions but to adda little balance:
I can still remember when I took my new Atomic Betaride 9.22 into powder for the first time - it was so easy it felt like cheating. I actually debated with myself whether it WAS cheating and concluded that I didn't care IT WAS A LOT OF FUN.
Those skis were 180cm and 72mm waist but shaped (22m radius). They said EXTRA-WIDE BODY on the side-walls! I guess they were compared to the 200cm K2 SLRs I'd was on before.
Since then I've only skied on about 5 different designs. The fatest would be Bandit XXX which I guess are not even that fat these days. My current skis have a 75mm waist - they seem to float very easily in 18 inches which is as deep as I've been lucky enough to get. As I still like making short turns from time to time, I think that 75mm is a good trade-off. That said, I doubt 80mm would feel too sluggish either. I did find the XXX's a bit thuggy and crude but I suspect B4s (or whatever) are much better.
As intermediate/advanced skiier not wanting to carry around a "quiver" I'd have thought something not too stiff in the range 75-80mm waist and 16-22m radius would be a pretty good compromise. Unless you are sticking on-piste all the time, I can't see the point in going skinnier. But equally, unless you really don't make short/rebound type turns anymore, I'd have thought more than 80mm would be frustrating at times.
Just a perspective - and I do bow to others greater knowledge.
J
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
I work consulantcy for Nordica, so know a littlel about their skis and could embarasse you there with a few facts.
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This is what I'm wanting enlightening on!
Embarasse me with your facts!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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You know it makes sense.
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easiski, I make it 14!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I think it's actually 14 skis! If I switch each morning and lunchtime, and skip a couple of lunch stops, I might just get though most of them! I guess it's unlikely that the hire shop will have all 14 anyway 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Dave Burt, Try each one for a day and then by the time you get to the end of your list some of the 2007 models will be out
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Quite a thread you started! I think you're probably right as it's very unlikely you'll get to ski the Prophets, shame, it’s a good all mountain ski. You need a well stocked ski shop, even then they won't cover all of the brands on your list.
Do you really want to try 14 skis in 2 weeks, even for keeping an open mind this seems to be going a little far. Depending on how much time you want to spend on this, here's what I suggest
Go into as many of the ski shops that you can, check out the range but avoid any contact with techies yet, just eye up the skis. To test the widest range of skis you might have to choose two shops. Have a talk with the ski tech and see what they think, most guys on a ski sales rack in resorts have good first hand knowledge of the skis. You want demo skis so you can negotiate the cost of the 'hire' off the cost of the skis, so it would be more economical to stay with one shop. 
You will get a better feel for a ski after skiing it for a day, although I can often tell straight away when I stand on a ski if I'm going to like it or not.
If you can make your choice by Thursday you can ski your new skis all day Friday.
Apologies if I’m teaching you to suck eggs.
Best of luck Dave.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thanks for that parlor. I posted a question a couple of weeks ago asking for tips on ski-testing here, and these comments are really helpful.
The list above is not in any order of priority, so I promise I will try and fit the Prophets in, even if it's just for a couple of hours!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I'd find a shopw with a broad range of skis including a few from your list (even just 2 or 3). I'd then test those 2 or 3 and ask the shop for any alternative recommendations. Don't get bamboozled by bulletin boards or to anal about it. THere aren't many bad skis these days. You want to spend your holiday enjoying the skiing not rushing in and out of ski shops all week. Don't you?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Dave Burt, good list. I started a similar thread last year and got some of the same recommendations. To my eternal shame I only managed to try 2 pairs but I'm planning on doing better this year. So I think I'll just copy-and-paste your list. Cheers!
(I still have the original list in my pocket just in case a freak snowstorm hits Camden and a store starts renting equipment. And mountains appear.)
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Dave Burt, if you're still watching, I find my Rossi 9X Oversize to do pretty much all I want. I'm weird though, I've even taken them heliskiing. This years are wider tip and tail which I suspect will make them even more fun off piste.
In fact I'm so weird that I've just added FIS compliant WC SL and GS skis to my quiver list and I don't race anymore. (But watch this space, part of the long term plan...)
And, yes, I do want a pair of off piste skis too. Maybe something from Movement? Who knows? Who cares?
Last edited by After all it is free  on Wed 21-12-05 18:25; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Pete1909, welcome to snowHeads.
Try a pair of Fisher RX8's. They're probably closer to the Volkl 5* than any other on that list, but with a bit more about them IMHO. But I'd try them in preference to any of the others on the list.
If you're just looking for a piste ski, I'd go more Slalom Carver ish. Atomics and Fisher do great ski's in that area too, although I have a pair of Dynamic VR27 SL's which would do that sort of job for you too.
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Oh God!
Shame!
Burning Embarrassment!
I've done the 1st page/last page mixup again haven't I?
I still think fat skis are a fad...so there. So far all the ones I've tried have disappointed. But I'm happy to try again, and again, and again...
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FAQ
