 Poster: A snowHead
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Damn, had forgotten about this annual event...am all out of popcorn 
Nice to see things starting off as usual. Although the addition of an extra apartment makes things complicated this year...on balance it sounds to me like a worse deal than it used to be, because you've got travelling time on top of cleaning, cooking and entertaining. I can see some upsides too, though...I guess you'd get more options on powder days.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I hope this is not a commercial company "phishing".
Some of the postings have been a tad skeptical.
But this work/play environment might work for me. I teach skiing at Taos. I'm 66, work year round (as a lifeguard and swimming instructor in warm months).
My wife is active duty Army destined to change her duty station to Europe in the near future.
A casual but dependable person, I can work as much or as little as needed.
I have a handle on efficient travel and the support of others who are travelling.
Very best regards.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Doddle
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Well I for one can see why Nixie past people don't post on here.
Masque et-al would be hounding them with "don't you realise how exploited you have been?" "I can help you get Nixie put in jail for getting you to clean his toilets"
We have been through the same thing twice now.
Our girl-friday from last year has not been invited to return full time this season.
She kept the place reasonably clean, but her cooking was a bit lacking, my wife ended up doing most of the cooking when we were there.
The free ski lessons were not always forthcoming as she was also working for NewGen and they took priority.
Frankly speaking I think she saw our place as something to enjoy, rather than as a place of work
She is a nice girl though, and we've become quite fond of her, she will be back during the peak times next season and we will not get a full time person.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rungsp, 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I believe you may also have contributed a fair amount to your girl-friday's general education and upbringing despite her lacklustre culinary exploits.
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Ahhh the annual nixmap, bash or BoSnB (beginning of season nixmap bash). Unfortunately we are not in a position to offer our services, with the exception of maybe a bit of rule bending and specific wording I can't really see any big issue. Nixy seems very reasonable, I'm not sure how reasonable he would be if one of his kids say they are capable of this run, when they are not and come a cropper and get injured. I would assume the chalets are of pretty good standard, seems like a reasonable exchange in return for weekend work(and school hols).
Unless of course they are complete animals and trash the place, then it takes you all week just to clean the toilets!!!!
I would probably say that to be a chalet hand with a TO would be much much worse.
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ricfrench I don't see a big issue with it either - I thought it sounded good and if it works for the right person, then great. However, on reflection, 5/6 weeks of school holidays working full time and, realistically, 3 day working week outside of school holidays (shopping, cooking, cleaning, babysitting, snow clearing, moving from Gstaad to Klosters or vice versa Friday, Saturday, Sunday) + paying for your own travel there and back, insurance (and not sure what extra insurance you need for babysitting etc. in Switzerland), ski kit, food on the days you're not working and personal beer money in some pretty pricey resorts.... just doesn't sound such a great deal anymore. But I can see how it would work out for some people.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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miranda,
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ricfrench I don't see a big issue with it either
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Me neither.
As others have pointed out it is a 'free accommodation in exchange for man hours' arrangement which is very common.
It isn't a fantastic 'free skiing and everything all season with no work' deal, nor is it poo-poo. It will be perfect for some people.
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| kat.ryb wrote: |
It isn't a fantastic 'free skiing and everything all season with no work' deal |
Ah, yes, you're right, he has dropped the "do a season for free" bit this year.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| miranda wrote: |
Ah, yes, you're right, he has dropped the "do a season for free" bit this year. |
Only because everyone objected to the phrasing so vigorously - seems I cant win either way !
The offer is more or less the same
Some more travel and more variety in ski area which could be either good or bad depending on you.
Probably a little less work, as everyone is older, and inclined to go out more.
Probably more fun, as Gstaad and Klosters - Davos have more people , entertainment and facilities.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| rungsp wrote: |
cooking was a bit lacking, my wife ended up doing most of the cooking when we were there.
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Snap! (you know you you are)
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nixmap, not a dig but genuine question that I'm sure has been asked/answered before but I can't remember the answer... why don't you just hire someone properly for the season? You're obviously not short of cash with 2 holiday homes for personal use in Switzerland, and the expenditure would be peanuts (relatively speaking), so what's the problem?
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You know it makes sense.
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| miranda wrote: |
| nixmap, not a dig but genuine question that I'm sure has been asked/answered before but I can't remember the answer... why don't you just hire someone properly for the season? You're obviously not short of cash with 2 holiday homes for personal use in Switzerland, and the expenditure would be peanuts (relatively speaking), so what's the problem? |
Seems to me, he IS HIRING someone. This is simply an entertaining way of wording the advert!
While I dislike his style of calling the work arrangment as "free", I do understand his way of attracting his "helper". A lot of people I know are HIRING cleaner or even child minder in this informal way. Basically, a lot of people consider the formality of "qualifying" as a child carer as useless and trust their own judgement of character! I admit I've had cleaners who may or may not be legally allowed to work in my country. I just choose not to ask that question and never filed employment paper. (some political candidates were once caught with the same "crime", as it's so wide-spread). I always know there's a small chance my cleaner "cleans" more than my toilet! But it's a risk I'm willing to take. And I know a lot of parents are taking that risk with their child carers too. Many just don't think any official "qualification" reduces the risk anyway, only adds expense!
For the potential worker, it side-steps the work permit issue, which makes this arrangement a sweet deal for them, even though the hour worked vs compensation equation might not stand out. Whether the risks are worth it, thanks to Masque et al, it's be exposed, so it's up to the individual to decide.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Switzerland jailed a couple of illegal workers this year. These were folks with no permit.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| miranda wrote: |
| nixmap, not a dig but genuine question that I'm sure has been asked/answered before but I can't remember the answer... why don't you just hire someone properly for the season? You're obviously not short of cash with 2 holiday homes for personal use in Switzerland, and the expenditure would be peanuts (relatively speaking), so what's the problem? |
That is by far the best question in 4 years,
OK I am going to have to take cover from the rock throwers but here goes.
Actually if you add my costs including insurance, multi region ski passes transport and all the rest, I am about even.
If I chose to rent one of the apartments out then I am definitely out of pocket.
Sure I could get in a cleaner, eat out more, put my kids in ski school ,but its not the same.
The people who I have had to stay as volunteers have all become good friends some of which we are going to visit in return in Montana and Jackson
You just don't forge these kind of friendships with standard temporary staff. People cannot be bought or sold for $10 and hour.
Sure everyone is a bit nervous when meeting at first and agreeing which things need doing and which don't and by whom, why some of the time I end up being the chef! The real value is not about the ski pass, or accommodation, or chores, its about like minded people helping each other have a great time together, working together, having fun together. Each person has something different to bring to the equation that others don't and that's the basis for exchange, of course there are costs and risks on both sides but trying to reduce it to dollars and cents, it is really nothing to do with the real value of the proposition.
So really that's the reason I go on here and the other forum, because its full of like minded people who share a passion for the things I enjoy doing, and that's also the basis for forging relationships that otherwise I might not encounter.
Same reason I hope you are here.
Same reason some of you attend the EOSB, which I would too if you ever host it outside France!
So stop wasting time on toilets, psychopaths under the bed, think better of you fellow snowhead, and get some skiing in.
Nix.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| snowbunny wrote: |
| Switzerland jailed a couple of illegal workers this year. These were folks with no permit. |
? That make Switzerland unique in anyway or is this just more FUD?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Masque. Apologies for suggesting you were in the same condition that I was at that time sat night/sun a.m.
In this instance I think Nixmap is looking for someone who both the Nixmaps and the "housekeeper" and comfortable with. I doubt it has much to do ultimately with CHF and more to do with creating a family atmosphere for his children with someone who is trustworthy and also has something interesting to say for themselves. After all the guy is running/renting or owning 2 reasonable properties for the whole season. Google up the Swiss Au Pair rules - it would n't cost him much to get an Au Pair - but he probably want someone a bit more interesting.
I don't think this is the massively sinister rip off that everyone is suggesting - and don't forget you can walk out!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| mishmash wrote: |
| Yes , I know - a poor edit. I see you don't deny the sentiment though. |
I think I just answered 5 posts up.
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Ooops so you did - and very well too. Good Luck this coming season!
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Ah well, as I said, I don't have a problem with the offer, and I could see how it could work out for the right person. Thanks for bothering to give a full answer to my question. Unfortunately this:
| nixmap wrote: |
The people who I have had to stay as volunteers have all become good friends some of which we are going to visit in return in Montana and Jackson
You just don't forge these kind of friendships with standard temporary staff.
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| mishmash wrote: |
| it would n't cost him much to get an Au Pair - but he probably want someone a bit more interesting. |
shows that my career choices make me too boring and not the right person for the job even if I were in a position to apply.
Good luck with your search nixmap.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I thought it best to do some double checking before I made this post and was delighted to find a Swiss Consulate in Kansas City and have spent an interesting 3 hours going over this and prior posts with a Consular official. All I will say is that anyone applying for this should be very aware that they could and probably will be be arrested, heavily fined and will certainly be deported.
The rules on working in Switzerland are quite clear and will be rigorously enforced and now calling the applicants "volunteers" demonstrates that Nixmap is perfectly aware that he is piddling all over his right to reside in Switzerland and your common sense.
You became too greedy Nix, goodbye and good luck.
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| Masque wrote: |
I thought it best to do some double checking before I made this post and was delighted to find a Swiss Consulate in Kansas City and have spent an interesting 3 hours going over this and prior posts with a Consular official. All I will say is that anyone applying for this should be very aware that they could and probably will be be arrested, heavily fined and will certainly be deported.
The rules on working in Switzerland are quite clear and will be rigorously enforced and now calling the applicants "volunteers" demonstrates that Nixmap is perfectly aware that he is piddling all over his right to reside in Switzerland and your common sense.
You became too greedy Nix, goodbye and good luck. |
You really just spent 3 hours of your time attempting to make the lives of people you don't know more difficult? Why?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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jimmer, because inciting people to commit a crime is not what this site is about. As it was pointed out to me today, It's not Nixmap who is most at risk it is the applicant who would face the greater charges. Anyone visiting Switzerland has a responsibility to obey its laws and ignorance is not a defence. With all the past records of this annual scheme any applicant cannot present a defence and will actually face a higher level of culpability though prison is extremely unlikely.
House sitting to include cleaning and restocking is acceptable in a limited manner but only if the owner is not present. It was also pointed out that anything but a professional insurance policy would not be valid without a work visa.
There's a difference between considered compromise and outright corruption of a Nation's laws and it's not a little tiny one. There are better, safer and from some who have organised their own season playing on the piste . . . cheaper ways to enjoy the Winter.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Masque, You know I say this with love.... but mate.... this is one of 'those' times.... get a grip. Please.
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More popcorn needed.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
More popcorn needed.
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Must put extra popcorn on my shopping list today 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Masque wrote: |
I thought it best to do some double checking before I made this post and was delighted to find a Swiss Consulate in Kansas City and have spent an interesting 3 hours going over this and prior posts with a Consular official. All I will say is that anyone applying for this should be very aware that they could and probably will be be arrested, heavily fined and will certainly be deported.
The rules on working in Switzerland are quite clear and will be rigorously enforced and now calling the applicants "volunteers" demonstrates that Nixmap is perfectly aware that he is piddling all over his right to reside in Switzerland and your common sense.
You became too greedy Nix, goodbye and good luck. |
I too thought it best to do some double checking before I made this post and discovered that the
Honorary Swiss Consul in Kansas city is Marcel Bollier, (cf http://www.kcmo.org/CKCMO/Depts/CityManagersOffice/InternationalAffairsandTradeOffice/ConsularCorpofGreaterKansasCity/index.htm - you ll see his contact address at Andre's Chocolates right there.) - the son of emigre chocolatier Andre Bollier and successful chocolatier in his own right - not the Wizard of OZ but the Willy Wonka of Kansas - Missouri!
Despite the fact that M. Bollier has been a native of Kansas City since 1968 and was educated at university there, he is clearly right up to scratch on current Swiss employment law as well as Swiss Jurisprudence (cf http://www.linkedin.com/pub/marcel-bollier/6/4a1/678 ) - all this running Andre's Chocolates too ! ( cf http://www.andreschocolates.com )
I am slightly surprised that he can offer such clear views though as he isn't able even to issue Visas as an Honorary Consul. ( I guess all that chocolate must really rev him up!) - http://www.eda.admin.ch/eda/en/home/reps/nameri/vusa/swissr.0017.html
M. (or Herr?) Bollier clearly take his honorary duties extremely seriously if, despite owning and managing a number of busy shops and tea rooms ( cf http://www.andreschocolates.com ) he was able to devote so much of his time to a private individual calling out of the blue about such a serious plot being perpetrated on an internet forum in Europe. Perhaps he has a hotline to Gstaad SWAT? (How many GNAR points do you get for a night in a Swiss prison by the way).
What that phrase again? "You are not in Kansas anymore", Masque...
So - it turns out that every year a deceitful, mean-spirited, nit-picking, jobs worth individual comes onto the forum in the pre-season to ruin everyone's fun. Just turns out not to be Nixmap!
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Poster: A snowHead
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| sHAG in Boots wrote: |
| Masque, You know I say this with love.... but mate.... this is one of 'those' times.... get a grip. Please. |
Sorry Masque, this. I think we probably knew you were right, but...... sledgehammer........nut ?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Masque, That is not really a problem
Anyone from the EU can stay in Switzerland 90 days without a permit, and to stay longer simply requires getting an L-permit.
It would be pretty easy for anyone from the EU doing this to get an L permit for 6 months. You don't need a job for a permit, just need to have medical cover and a means of supporting yourself for the time you are in the country.
Also do you really think that the Swiss immigration office are going to check how many nights people (tourists, not illegal immigrants trying to sneak into the country) stay in ski resorts when they will all be gone in April anyway...?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Flaine skier, It's not the length of stay, It's the work and duties performed while staying. Look anyone of you can get into bed with Nixmap, if you're not worried about the condition of the sheets then you can't complain about the bugs you catch or the severity of the cure.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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sHAG in Boots, Pedantica, livetoski, No more popcorn needed, Penicillin is probably more appropriate.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Maybe anusol.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Filthyphil30k, I had to look that one up
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Filthyphil30k,
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| miranda wrote: |
| But actually, in amongst everything else he's said, I do think Masque has raised a valid point about liability and the need for insurance if you are being responsible for someone else's children in return for remuneration (lift pass, car use, accommodation etc.), in or out of the home. |
The 'is it a job?' issue could also be relevant to health insurance and motor insurance. If you injure yourself whilst informally teaching your "friends'" or friends of "friends'" children, will you be covered? Likewise, it might be wise to doublecheck that Nixmap's motor insurance does fully cover you for driving your non-employer's car from one location where you are not working to the other location where you are not working.
Possibly these aren't issues but it would be best to make sure.
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FAQ
and then there were three? now I am confused.