 Poster: A snowHead
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Lockdown worked great in Nz. Sensible leadership, people followed the rules, ended up having a great ski season, not too much economic fallout relative to other countries either.
Worked well in China too.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@hang11, and Singapore, South Korea, and to a lesser extent Germany.....basically places where the collective population know how to behave and follow rules, and have higher moral values and social compass. There seems an obsession here in the UK with people wanting to bend the rules for their own benefit, push the boundaries, and that coupled with weak/ ineffective leadership, and critically a lack of an effective track and trace system has fed the current situation here in UK. Some people don't seem capable of following guidance without looking for "what if's" and pretending that the rules don't apply to them, and are over-complicated......is the rule of 6 really that hard to understand (Victoria Derbyshire et al).
I'm personally getting increasingly fed up hearing the media referring to "the Covid Generation", ie 18-35 year olds who we need to feel sorry for because they've had a tough time.....hasn't everyone? In some cases they need to wise up and take some responsibility for their actions. then we will see progress against CV-19.
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Exactly, you've succinctly summed up the situation eloquently that speaks for any responsible Brit!!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I think that the conformance issue is being used as an excuse for incompetence. Yes, we all have anecdotes about people being thoughtless and some of it is not helping . But countermeasures are much more than conformance: we don't have the Track & Trace we need to get through the next phase, we don't have a useful app, we're still allowing unfettered travel with virtually no mandatory checks, we actually encouraged people to return to their offices at exactly the point where they needed to stay at home, we refused to get this year's Uni intake to defer a year and stay at home, we open pubs and restaurants but get them to shut at 10pm when there's no evidence this makes any difference, and so on. Conformance is one part of a repertoire of measures and actions, and in every case we're taking the wrong approach. So we end up with the worst of both worlds: a Second Wave and a Disastrous economic hit.
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| Markymark29 wrote: |
@hang11, and Singapore, South Korea, and to a lesser extent Germany.....basically places where the collective population know how to behave and follow rules, and have higher moral values and social compass. There seems an obsession here in the UK with people wanting to bend the rules for their own benefit, push the boundaries, and that coupled with weak/ ineffective leadership, and critically a lack of an effective track and trace system has fed the current situation here in UK. Some people don't seem capable of following guidance without looking for "what if's" and pretending that the rules don't apply to them, and are over-complicated......is the rule of 6 really that hard to understand (Victoria Derbyshire et al).
I'm personally getting increasingly fed up hearing the media referring to "the Covid Generation", ie 18-35 year olds who we need to feel sorry for because they've had a tough time.....hasn't everyone? In some cases they need to wise up and take some responsibility for their actions. then we will see progress against CV-19. |
Could not agree more. I knew at the start of this that it would divide opinion and cause tension between people with different attitudes and that is beginning to be an issue for me and my network. One particular person is supporting people 'standing up' to the gov restrictions and claims that we don't need to follow the rules because they are nonsensical, instead we just need to deploy common sense.. the problem is, common sense is not common. Furthermore, just because one does not understand the rules, does not mean they are necessarily wrong!
I'm finding myself becoming more distanced from him and people with a similar attitude as their actions can have implications for me and people in my network who are vulnerable.
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Our lives in 2020 do not really allow the approach governments tried to take in the spring. It's just not possible, we are completely co-dependent on each other , we are not able to live on our own for months. There is no such thing as "non-essential business" as the pub owner, the musician or the photographer do not have food if their "non-essential" business is closed - so it's quite essential to those people. We have decided decades ago we want to have super nice pubs and tons of quality professional musicians to entertain us every weekend and have thus turned this into an essential business. So the "lockdown" approach will have to be ditched in favor of something else... Many countries have realised it already, but are still failing to come up with anything else. I think testing might bring the "turning point" - the new antigen tests are very cheap, quick and you can potentially test a whole region/city in a day with proper organisation. Slovakia will be trying something interesting in the next weeks - mandatory quarantine for everyone, unless you go to the testing points and test negative.
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| Quote: |
we refused to get this year's Uni intake to defer a year
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Why just this year's intake, what about the ones going into yrs 2 and 3? And how do you manage next year when you have 2 years fighting for 1 yr intake?
Could only be done if everyone essentially was asked to re-do the year they are in
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Boris wrote: |
| Quote: |
we refused to get this year's Uni intake to defer a year
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Why just this year's intake, what about the ones going into yrs 2 and 3? And how do you manage next year when you have 2 years fighting for 1 yr intake?
Could only be done if everyone essentially was asked to re-do the year they are in |
Is this true ? There used to be a lot of foreign students that won't be here now.
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I'd concede that it's a fair point re the University and FE students: the pipeline line of people is pretty hard to turn off. And some subjects are not possible to study without the facilities. But I'm just struck - what's the point of transporting students from home to halls of residence, and then keeping them in their rooms working online? If they can work online alone in a hall they could do the same at home, at least perhaps for the autumn term? I appreciate it's impossible to conjure complex on-line teaching material out of thin air at short notice, but perhaps more could have been done to keep the Freshers at home this autumn.
'So the "lockdown" approach will have to be ditched in favour of something else.' well, if there was an alternative, yes. But there isn't, so no, not at the moment. What's happening is what happens in a viral epidemic. It's an inexorable natural algorithm. There are three key countermeasures, however - 1. Track/Trace 2. Vaccination 3. Social distancing. We don't have [1] or [2] and [3] seems to be degrading. Albeit we do have better care for the seriously affected, which will help a lot.
We could significantly improve Track and Trace if we fired Dido, cancelled the contracts and gave the money to the (highly effective) local agencies already in place. But politically this just won't happen. I'd genuinely forgive the whole Dido-Serco-Fiasco if the politicians just admitted they'd got it wrong, things didn't turn out as they'd hoped, and now was the time to wipe the slate clean and get it right. But this isn't going to happen as far as I can see. So the odds will be forever stacked against us until a vaccine arrives. And the whole vaccine strategy will only work if we can persuade the anti-vaxxers to participate: so we need to start making that case now, not wait until a vaccine appears.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Tue 27-10-20 12:59; edited 2 times in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@LaForet, +1......every young person I know who has gone to Uni in the UK this year says it's completely crazy that they are there, they have all had to isolate because of outbreaks, and all say they could be doing what they are doing from home. Plus there will be some who just do as they like, who could be avoided if the sensible ones were at home. It's all about the money! IMV they should have taken a decision to do the online lectures and tutorials until say end of second term, and make the third term longer by one month to allow any catch-up required due to a sluggish start, or given them the option to defer a year. I can't see next years intake being that crazy about going to universities where this years students have been treated like lab mice, and have had to pay high fee's for a poor service provision (not the Uni's faults but if their in that business they should have contingency plans which include safe well-being of their students).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I would question the intelligence of any student who choose to go to uni this year.
They would have been better off on the dole & saving it up for a year.
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Straying off topic, but many (all) Unis have been economical with the truth. Lots of promises of in=person teaching and outdoor freshers weeks - all of which disappeared when the fees and halls had been paid.
My boys are lucky in that they are in own houses so relatively free to do what they like, within the rules, and have a mix of online and in-person tuition. Plus the facilities on campus are open to use and the various sports clubs they are in are up and running. So not the full Uni experience but probably better than being stuck at home with us.
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You know it makes sense.
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| boyanr wrote: |
If lockdown really worked as supposed to, the "dramatic fall" would happen in 2 weeks time, not in 2 months
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That's just not the case because of the length of incubation period, plus the fact even people who get full symptoms are infectious before they develop, so even under the spring lockdown rules there is scope for some community transmision. It is also the case that once one member of a household gets Covid, it is virtually inevitable that it works its way through the whole household over time. From infection to symptoms can take two weeks, from symptoms to severe enough symptoms for hospital admissions can be another 10 days to 2 weeks, so there are a lot of lags involved.
This won't embed but worth viewing - animated prevalence map: https://preview.redd.it/lba73us9a9s51.gif?width=640&format=mp4&s=6d37436861bff20d0feb0309e432ad8a12bd86dd
It's clear the spring lockdown did work, prevalence was universally low across Scotland when indoor hospitality and tourism reopened on 15th July - but the same could definitely not be said of England at that point and HM Government started to open things up earlier than Scotland - around London wasn't doing too badly then, but HM Government simply opened up England far too early for a uniform approach at the outset. The Tories then reacted with venam and fury at any suggestion of restricting travel between the home nations, so the inevitable consequence is everywhere gets pulled back towards the worst area. GB is an island so we could have collectively gone full NZ.
We will all pay the price for the above and summer holidays with a winter of high infections, restrictions, deaths and further economic damage across the whole UK.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Boris wrote: |
Straying off topic, but many (all) Unis have been economical with the truth. Lots of promises of in=person teaching and outdoor freshers weeks - all of which disappeared when the fees and halls had been paid.
My boys are lucky in that they are in own houses so relatively free to do what they like, within the rules, and have a mix of online and in-person tuition. Plus the facilities on campus are open to use and the various sports clubs they are in are up and running. So not the full Uni experience but probably better than being stuck at home with us. |
This is really good to read. Given the articles in press the impression is that universally it is an awful experience, so good to get some balance to the perspective
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Poster: A snowHead
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Extracts from My OP on Page 1...... It is Turning out about about how I thought...
Is the 2020/2021 a non starter?
""""It possibly could be ....
Lockdowns & Quarantines could yet go on for some months …... until the Autumn in some places
Flattening the Curve does not mean CV19 has gone away.......far from it 
Without a proven successful Vaccine and even with the further economic consequences
I do not think countries like Italy, Austria would risk it again (not this soon)....
Mass International Gatherings ??...Which is what Ski Resorts essentially are
Unless there is some kind of Compulsory CV19 All Clear Health Certificate for EVERY visitor ..They will end up back up at square one...
Before the 20/21 Ski season a CV19 vaccine HAS to be "Discovered" Tested, Trialed and then put into production and rolled out (Mass Vaccination) by at least
October 2020..Very very unlikely.
******
Reminder: It has taken 40 years to discover a vaccine for HIV still with no luck !!
Will any Insurance company cover travellers when booking anything until the restrictions are TOTALLY lifted ..?? """""
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
@SkiingQuinHat,
no you have to do immediate Quarantine on entry into Switzerland ..
May I transit this country?
It is possible to stop over at one of the Swiss airports,
as long as you do not leave the transit zone of the airport and you can prove that you can continue your
journey to your destination country. If you are unable to board your flight and are stuck in an
international transit area of an airport, contact the local border control authorities directly.
Third country nationals travelling from a Covid risk area, are allowed to transit if
they are holding a residence document for their destination country in the Schengen Area
and travel through Switzerland to their destination country. Furthermore,
those planning to transit Switzerland in their way to their destination country can no longer
do so if they depart from one of the countries in Switzerland’s list of high-risk areas.
https://reopen.europa.eu/en/map/CHE/2003
A negative test result does not exempt you from the mandatory quarantine requirement
"""People who have spent time in a country or area with an increased risk of
infection and then enter Switzerland must go into quarantine.
The countries and areas affected are set down in a list.
This list is regularly updated in line with the epidemiological situation."""
Because the UK and nearly ALL European Countries are on the list .
https://www.bag.admin.ch/bag/en/home/krankheiten/ausbrueche-epidemien-pandemien/aktuelle-ausbrueche-epidemien/novel-cov/empfehlungen-fuer-reisende/quarantaene-einreisende.html#1918240392
@skivor,
I dont care if your 76 , 56, 36 or 16. ""I think each individual will have to weigh up risk vs reward"". You appear to only care about yourself and not other people ""
You and people with this attitude are The Problem !!!
Have you ever thought of the possibility having an accident or the very REAL risk falling ill with CoV19 in Austria and then blocking up their Medical Services ?
Please check how you intend to travel to Austria as its currently not easy without breaking CoV19 regulations of neighbouring countries and these are likely to be tightened up.
Health is more important than Economy.
Without Health there is NO Economy.
Dead Folks do not Recover
Economy's will Recover
Everyone
STAY AT HOME.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Why dont you give it a rest the whole world knows you views and most dont give a monkeys for it. Some of us have working from day one keeping the world going and if governments allow us to ski then we will most definitely be going. I am no greater risk to anyone after a days skiing than i am after a day working.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I think that universities have found themselves in a no-win situation over this. They had to publish their intentions for the autumn term back in early August, before the A level results. So they did, based on the situation as it was then and the government's promise that their "world-beating" response would keep cases low.
My daughter had already taken a gap year, and was ready to start her course. She had chosen Liverpool, which of course went into Tier 3 a few days after she arrived. Events which had been planned to be face-to-face were largely switched to online until the situation is better. She is in a hall of residence with a group of students assigned to the same corridor, so she needs to get on with them, and Covid has clearly been spreading rapidly: she caught it meeting other students on her course before the Tier 3 restrictions came in, and subsequently passed it on to other flatmates. That stopped her attending her first scheduled face-to-face practical session, but now she is out of isolation she has had another which she enjoyed. And she is now able to join some outdoor sports activities, again positive.
Nevertheless the majority is online, but they seem to have mastered the capabilities of online teaching (e.g. tutorial groups subdividing into small breakout groups for discussion, then reconvening to report back) and keep her working hard. She is disappointed her indoor social activities (music) aren't available. But overall she reports she is "having a blast", while it is a strange time everyone is in the same boat and they are keeping their spirits up.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Can I put forward a motion to have the clearly clinically insane @stanton removed from the forum? Unfortunately people like him (if it is indeed a him) are the problem, spreading and perpetuating fear and scaremongering rather than looking at facts on both sides. If your only influence is the main stream media BBC, ITV and the like you are misinformed not only are they incredibly biased they are also gagged by Ofcom as part of the COVID act.
We're trapped in a viscous circle at the moment of the MSM creating fear, reporting half truths and partial facts, this reflects in opinion polls so the Govt introduces more severe measures based on those the polls and the circle continues.
We all know there is a virus and sadly some do succumb to that, but you're in a very small minority if you're unlucky enough to sadly pass away. Those tend to be very old frail and have pre-existing conditions.
I'm interested to know where all the flu is this year, there are ONS and WHO stats that show flu has virtually disappeared. That could be we're not moving around as much, COVID has somehow forced flu into submission this season or perhaps the woefully inadequate PCR test is diagnosing flu as COVID? I have no idea.
What I do know is @stanton is an absolute weapon.
It's great to read that the general consensus is if we are able, we will go skiing and those that feel uncomfortable you are right to protect yourselves.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@stanton's opinions are cartoonishly simplistic but I disagree with much of @James77's extreme stance also.
Can I put forward a motion to have the clearly clinically insane @James77 removed from the forum?
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@stanton presumably knows where the skeletons are buried. Otherwise he would have been booted off a long time ago.
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@Super Chap Great Bloke, I don't have extreme views at all, I simply have presented a few facts if that is extreme then God help us!
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About the only part of @James77 rant that is correct is the part stating he has “no idea”.
Stanton just trolls, but the fact remains viruses don’t move about, they can’t actively spread, they don’t reproduce outside a host - we humans are the vector. Controlling covid requires controlling humans, it really is quite simple.
And idiots taken so far down the covid denial Facebook rabbit hole that they could practically ski in New Zealand calling others ill informed is priceless.
There’s quite a number of ASSs here (arrogant, selfish, stupid). If you want to ski anywhere this season you better start taking the situation seriously, complying with the spirit and intent of the rules, not looking to push boundaries or blatantly disregard restrictions.
Last edited by After all it is free on Tue 27-10-20 17:28; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@James77, I haven't seen UK data showing that there is less flu than usual at this time of year, but if true it is likely not "forced into submission" by Covid but by the precautions the majority are taking to restrict the spread of Covid. They are both respiratory illnesses, so reducing the transmission of one is likely to have a similar effect on the other.
I do see that the BBC and ITV can only report factual information that is available - which means from sources such as the Office of National Statistics - but I am intrigued why you call them "incredibly biased". From what I have seen and read they are doing their best to keep the public informed reliably, given what most of us want to know is data that is only being collected now and won't be available until some time in the future.
And I agree there are one or two individuals whose posts on this forum are often out of order. The best approach is not to rise to the bait and encourage them further.
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| James77 wrote: |
We're trapped in a viscous circle at the moment of the MSM creating fear, reporting half truths and partial facts, this reflects in opinion polls so the Govt introduces more severe measures based on those the polls and the circle continues.
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On the upside, our decline will be slower as the circle is viscous.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@j b, Rolling out the discredited Neil Ferguson last weekend on the BBC was shocking, not only was his model proven to be widely inaccurate and full of error but he is also responsible for numerous other models over the last 20 years that are inaccurate. Not only that he broke the rules he said were necessary to see his girlfriend. I'd like to see virologists and emptimologists (spelling?) from both sides of the debate given air time not just washed up statisticians. There is zero balanced view on the MSM and we need that.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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In @James77 defence I read a report a few days ago about respiratory tests carried out by the NHS recently. 78,000 tests, 3,000 covid positive, nil flu positive.
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| BoardieK wrote: |
| In @James77 defence I read a report a few days ago about respiratory tests carried out by the NHS recently. 78,000 tests, 3,000 covid positive, nil flu positive. |
Well for a start flu isn’t caused by coronaviruses. Covid is easier to transmit than influenza so the measures to try and limit the spread of Covid are going to also limit flu.
What it tells us is washing hands, using face masks and social distancing reduces the spread of respiratory viruses!
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@James77, I can see that Neil Ferguson's personal integrity was discredited by the girlfriend story - but at least he did the decent thing and resigned unlike certain others. I understand he is still a respected scientist in the field of epidemiological modelling.
There is a saying about statistical models that "no model is correct but some are useful". Ferguson's was useful in that it got a government that had its head in the sand to actually start doing something. The extent to which it was inaccurate is impossible to say: it was always a worst case scenario if nothing was done, so it cannot be compared with what actually happened when something was done, including voluntary and government-mandated restrictions that are unprecedented in my lifetime.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@haggishunter, so for a few tens of thousands of deaths virtually all of our freedoms are to be thrown away, the Police able to put us under house arrest or ruin us with a £10,000 for the crime of having a party or wedding? Where we quarantine the healthy and the sick, on the basis of predictions that have turned out to be vastly wrong? Where no assessment was made by the gov't of the harms of house arrest and shutting down the economy against the harms of C19?
This for one of the weediest pandemics in human history that is now sub-endemic? Which, until you are 70 is slightly less fatal than 'flu?
1,300 die every day normally, we are now below the normal five-year average for deaths and overall we're no worse than 2000 for (I think) excess deaths. ITUs are always struggling at this time of year: cancelling thousands of procedures has helped but why should they die in favour of C19 deaths (average age 83).
What is it you're frightened of? Do you really think C19 is going to kill you so much more than anything else? Do you really think the gov't can be trusted given that it has abused and manipulated the law to strip you of the freedom to have a wedding, or to gather in public?
Is there anything the gov't will demand that you do that you will refuse? Is it just easier to obey?
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 27-10-20 19:09; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Any news from Tignes?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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full lockdown in France from Thursday. project going before parliament during the day on Thursday. Don't expect France to be open for the start of winter.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@davidof, is there anything official out yet on that (not doubting the direction of travel, but I thought the statement was due tomorrow rather than tonight, and would be useful to see the detail).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@snowdave, Well until it is voted nothing is official but that is the bill that is expected to go through parliament on Thursday. No ski touring or anything like that either. Measures of some sort will last to March but no idea about quarantine (it was always possible to come to France during the last lockdown). It may be possible for people in resort to get out and about in the Fresh air but ski lifts will be closed.
I've been told be work to collect all the gear I need to telework from Thursday.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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France could be set to bring in even tighter restrictions against Covid-19 - including starting curfew at 19:00 - as severe cases continue to rise, hospitals are under pressure, and the Grand Est region considers a full lockdown.
Government ministers from the Conseil de défense are to meet at the Elysée today (Tuesday October 27) to discuss possible future measures.
The meeting will include President Emmanuel Macron, Health Minister Olivier Véran, Economy Minister Bruno le Maire, and Interior Minister Gérald Darmanin, as well as representatives from health authorities.
If passed, the tighter restrictions are expected to include starting the current curfew in place across most of the country at 19:00 instead of 21:00.
After the initial meeting the President is set to speak with the Senate and Assemblée nationale and then hold a meeting with business owners and worker union bosses. Mr Macron’s aim appears to be to consult with as many parties as possible before taking decisions to impose any possible further restrictions.
More record figures
The possibility of tighter rules comes as the most recent figures from heath body Santé publique France (Monday October 26) show that there were 2,761 new intensive care admissions due to Covid-19 in France in the past 24 hours, of which 357 were considered especially severe cases.
This is the highest number of severe cases recorded since April.
There were 258 hospital deaths in 24 hours, compared to 116 the day before.
The positivity level (the percentage of positive results of the total tests) is now at 17.8%, compared to 17% on Sunday, and 4.5% overall in the month of September.
There were 26,771 new confirmed cases on Monday, a drop from the more than 50,000 confirmed on Sunday.
Professor Jean-François Delfraissy, president of government scientific advisory council le Conseil Scientifique, said on Sunday that the second wave of Covid was “surprising” in its “brutality”.
No mention of ski touring just yet 
That said as the OH had her new DPS Pagoda's and skin delivered today 
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Tue 27-10-20 19:40; edited 1 time in total
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4 week lockdown for france.
Not like the workshy lazy Fitzwilliams will notice
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| davidof wrote: |
to come to France during the last lockdown). It may be possible for people in resort to get out and about in the Fresh air but ski lifts will be closed.
I've been told be work to collect all the gear I need to telework from Thursday. |
Make sure you take an office chair. Best thing our work let us do... along with supplying desks, peripherals, monitor screens, etc.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Weathercam wrote: |
That said as the OH had her new DPS Pagoda's and skin delivered today |
You'd better hope for snow in Sussex this winter.
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| Mr.Egg wrote: |
| davidof wrote: |
to come to France during the last lockdown). It may be possible for people in resort to get out and about in the Fresh air but ski lifts will be closed.
I've been told be work to collect all the gear I need to telework from Thursday. |
Make sure you take an office chair. Best thing our work let us do... along with supplying desks, peripherals, monitor screens, etc. |
Yep I encouraged every one of my team to do so and arranged for one to be delivered to a guy who needed to isolate due to health conditions (we had previously purchased it for him to use in the office)
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FAQ
