 Poster: A snowHead
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I believe a lot of confusion was generated by the qualification BASI level 1; it was first aimed at amalgamating the ESC and other national plastic organisations to BASI, its level was that of below club instructor and encouraging people to go into training for BASI 2. BASI L1 allows an instructor to work on artificial slopes with beginners to basic skill levels up to and including plough. Another qualification of UK Advanced Instructor was added above level 1 to bring the level of BASI artificial slope instructor level with the ASSI qualification; this qualification allows the instructor to work with more advanced customers including teaching parallel skills, so that this is a qualification to aim for if wanting to progress to BASI 2 with better skills perhaps?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| beanie1 wrote: |
| We sold Manuals, |
I do you a disservice, I did actually buy a copy of the new manual at the stand, to avoid the horrendous p&p charges.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Cynic, I disagree with you on that. The BASI L1 was based on SSS ASSI and indeed holders of ASSI could transfer to BASI without further examination. SSE Club Instructor is a lower level qualification to L1.
UKAI is a halfway qualification which encompasses the Piste and Teaching elements of the full L2, so much so that only a 5 day course rather than the full 10 day one is required for L2. It is graded exactly the same a L2.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| After i had my shiny new badge and had completed my shadowing hours, CRB First aid etc i asked what my pay rate would be at the dry slope where i did my shadowing hours, the answer was "we don't pay part time instructors, but you can use the slope for free". I voted with my feet and drove over an hour to work at Milton Keynes where they had a pay and benefits structure. |
That's actually quite common at dry slopes I believe which is why relatively speaking I'm pretty well off where I am!
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| Don't really stack up, the ISIA's employed at Hemel I believe get paid more and the ones I know of seem to get plenty of work. |
Apologies if I accepted that statement above without question, I guess I should have questioned the original statement more. If this is the case then I think it's fair enough to say there are incentives to progress.
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| I only managed one ski show this year (london) but had a long and very constructive discussion with our Chairman, sadly i just missed the CEO who was also there. Should BASI not be selling at a consumer show? |
At the B'ham show when I passed the BASI stand there was only one person on the stand and she was talking to someone about Gap courses which I thought were pretty well publicised on the stand - there were some free pens though! 
As you may have gathered my concerns are more around the numbers entering via gap courses and the general standards of L1 as I see them at the dry slope (not in Scotland I have to say but the ski school there are quite active in promoting and supporting training and there's a pool of locals to choose from rather than the odd stranger pitching up looking for some shadowing/work hours).
| Wayne wrote: |
EDIT
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Just made a decision. 
I have been in basi since 1995 (got my old basi 3 with Dave Renoufe and Les Ward), and I have never put anything up for a board/members vote. Well I am going to for the next AGM (too late for this one).
I propose we re-introduce the quarterly POSTED OUT newsletters
I will contact basi soon to find out how on earth you put something up for a vote to the members. |
Can you not just request that you get printed copies?
I just have because I got fed up not getting the mag through the post which, like you, I always kinda liked getting it. I actually grabbed a printed copy of BASI News, the latest accounts and the Gap info (for reference you understand  ) whan I was at the show and realised I did miss my printed copies. I guess if the next one I receive is only digital then I'll know e-mailing them hasn't worked!
| kitenski wrote: |
| But isn't shadowing what you make of it? Maybe I've been lucky so far, but all my shadowing has been with instructors giving 'real' lessons to beginners and intermediates. The instructors I've shadowed have been very good at answering my questions, ie "why did you do that" or some have even asked me " What drills would you suggest next". |
Yes, you are quite right there Greg but people being people (and young people being young people) if there's a way to short circuit the process many will and I suspect, based on what I've seen at the dry slope, enough do to to make it at least a legitimate concern.
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| I do agree that there was very little emphasis on 'teaching' techniques within L1, I am lucky in that I am also a Level 1 hockey coach so have some experience of teaching methods and techniques that work/don't work. |
There is a strong argument IMHO for the emphasis to remain the same on the course but if there were a pre course requirement for ski school experience and a post course requirement for proper on slope shadowing as I suggest above I think that would help a lot as would BASI partnering up/working with more ski schools in the UK to ensure appropriate but robust shadowing standards.
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| Do some folk take a BASI course as a badge of honour with no intent to teach though? |
I think they probably do but I don't think that's an issue as such, it's just that if they tightened up on the shadowing those people might I guess be put off a bit and BASI loose a bit of revenue!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Spyderman wrote: |
Cynic, I disagree with you on that. The BASI L1 was based on SSS ASSI and indeed holders of ASSI could transfer to BASI without further examination. SSE Club Instructor is a lower level qualification to L1.
UKAI is a halfway qualification which encompasses the Piste and Teaching elements of the full L2, so much so that only a 5 day course rather than the full 10 day one is required for L2. It is graded exactly the same a L2. |
I don't know how true this is but I've always been told (by SSE people so they would say this wouldn't they) that the SSS ASSI was pitched at a lower level than the SSE version and consequently they maintain the SSE L2 (which is what the ASSI is now called just to confuse everyone) is at a higher level than BASI L1. In fact some like to maintain that their L2 is as good as the BASI but there I think reality and fantasy start to get a bit too mixed up! 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Spyderman is correct SSC club instructor was lower than BASI 1 and also on ASSI transfer.
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| Cynic wrote: |
| Spyderman is correct SSC club instructor was lower than BASI 1 and also on ASSI transfer. |
SSC = Scottish Ski Club? 
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roga, SSC = Superior Scottish certificate
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Ah right, I'm now enlightned
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| roga wrote: |
| Can you not just request that you get printed copies? |
Yes I know I can, but that’s not the point.
I won’t push a thread drift here but the basics are that I feel that off the 000’s of members in BASI the vast majority will never turn up at AGM’s, will never get past L2 (yep, waiting for the shouts), will never meet a board members, etc, etc. Basically they will very soon stop being members as they just got a badge and now basi is too far away.
A regular PRINTED newsletter POSTED out to ALL the members is just a method for the association to keep in touch and the wider membership to feel part of something.
But, it may be that most members don’t want this, which why I have been emailing with Shona about the process of asking the membership (not the CEO or the board) if they want it returned. If they say no, then fine, but I think it should be asked.
I will post here when I have some news – as the BASI facebook page is just so full of adverts for stuff it’s a waste of time even putting anything up. Seems that SH’s has turned into what the basi facebook page should have been.
Anyway back let’s get back to the “why isn’t BASI run the way I personally want it to be” and "ain't ski schools horrid" thread.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| skifluff wrote: |
clarky999, st anton does sound amazing, for reference most people where I work pay 800-1000chf/month to SHARE a room in an appartment. Lunch is not provided. |
Really? I've yet to take a group to a mountain restaurant and not receive a free meal for myself - even at restaurants that have no official 'relationship' with the school.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| offpisteskiing wrote: |
| Spyderman wrote: |
| BASI exist for one reason only... ...to line the pockets of their own trainers. |
You are having a laugh aren't you! If I accept contracts from BASI to work as a Trainer during the main winter season I essentially take a 50% pay CUT.
Now money is not the main reason I take the contracts from BASI, the work is enjoyable, challenging and it is good to give something back to the sport / help future instructors along the path to a snowy career, but a BASI course involves longer hours and more potential stress (pass/fail etc) than a week with 'regular' clients for about half the cash.
To suggest / infer that BASI exists simply to 'line our pockets' is to have little/no understanding of the whole thing. |
How many BASI courses are run during the peak winter season?
50% pay cut on your peak season rates perhaps, but you're not taking the courses then, they're at times when bookings generally are light.
10 day course with 10 people paying £550 each, not bad money for BASI and it's Trainers, when work is otherwise quiet.
No doubt being a BASI Trainer adds value and demand for his/her services, which in turn boosts earnings outside of BASI.
The courses are very good, the Trainers do a great job, but generally the whole process is over long, ridiculously expensive and throw up questions such as to why the Common Theory course can only be taken in Scotland, why is a second discipline necessary, why is a speed test necessary, why is a second language necessary which could be a completely different one to where you are working?
No wonder CSIA have given up on ISIA, they seem to look after their members interests very well.
I read a report on the ISIA conference in Budapest, in which BASI sent a representative, for a meeting that wasn't even attended by the French or Austrians, why did BASI bother going, how much did that cost?
The whole process seems like one big gravy train.
Perhaps you'd like to explain, so that I might understand better?
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Spyderman, actually quite a large percentage of courses are now run 'peak season' (ie Dec - Apr). The days of monster November and May courses with 100s of candidates are long gone...
As for the rest, I don't represent BASI on any official basis outside of my position as a sub-contractor so i wouldn't care to comment...
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You know it makes sense.
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But back to the OP,
The only place I have worked where I felt slightly hard done by was in the States, where I got screwed out of a lot of request privates until I actually started phsyically going in to the booking office with the client & insisting that they take me off whatever kids group i was due to be on the next day for x dollars and put me on the request private for 2x dollars (sliding scale depending on lesson type there, with request privates being top of the scale..). But that is just my experience.
Becoming a ski instructor is not a way to a life of riches - even fully qualified (I don't dangle off the side of oil rigs in the summer for fun). By the time I finished my quals I had a hefty credit card bill, but i had a hell of a good time in the process working around the world and meeting some cool people... There may well be some places now which take advantage of L1/L2 qualified instructors (can't comment on the indoor snow scene as I have no real knowledge of the economics) but it all depends on your mindset - when I worked in NZ I went with the view that if I broke even while I was there & maybe had some cash for a stop somewhere sunny on the way home then that was a bonus.
(Cue the four yorkshireman sketch...)
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Working with a young chap from ESF end of season, he had a rather nice Audi sport, a nice girlfriend and obviously a pretty good income to support it, “oh no not from skiing I have the deck chair concession in Cannes during the summer”
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Poster: A snowHead
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The schools I work for treat me pretty well, in Chile I have my accom and 4 meals paid for, plus a salary, for 18 hours of lessons a week (still get paid if lessons are quiet), any privates I do I get paid a good hourly wage (50% of the lesson cost). When I injured myself skiing for fun, all costs were covered without even mentioning travel insurance. In Japan I get a good hourly rate and a really good request private rate. I love working in both places, and would probably do it for a lot less. In NZ I did feel like the company was too money orientated, but still didn´t feel `exploited`. In the US the pay was worse, but I still enjoyed the work and managed to save some money.
The problem is obviously that when people are willing to work for free or very little, it devalues the job, and companies will obviously exploit that when they can (like all the people essentially working for nothing cleaning chalets). The good thing is that if you work at being good at it, people will realise, and the rewards become greater.
The bottom line is if you don´t like how you are treated by a school, change schools, if enough good instructors leave, the schools profits will suffer eventually.
As for BASI, I am not a member, but my perception is that the courses are overly expensive for quals that are worth no more than any other certifications (until you get to ISTD).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Wayne,
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I will post here when I have some news – as the BASI facebook page is just so full of adverts for stuff it’s a waste of time even putting anything up. Seems that SH’s has turned into what the basi facebook page should have been.
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I asked members of the page on 26th October if they minded companies posting ads on the page (we're debating if they should be deleted). THe general consensus so far has seemed to have been as long as they're relevant people don't mind.
Please post some feedback on that discussion if you disagree!
I don't think FB will ever be a forum for the sort of debate you get here, as it's not set up in a way that encourages it.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Spyderman wrote: |
| The courses are very good, the Trainers do a great job, but generally the whole process is over long, ridiculously expensive and throw up questions such as to why the Common Theory course can only be taken in Scotland, why is a second discipline necessary, why is a speed test necessary, why is a second language necessary which could be a completely different one to where you are working? |
There's a lot in there!
Just to clarify, my issue is with the nature of the lower level courses as explained above, particularly the teaching/shadowing elements and the fact I feel there's a danger of the market being flooded and jobs, wages and conditions for those looking to stay in long term and progress being affected by this. I also intimated that BASI might be quite happy with all the gaps and L1s because it swells the paying membership and the bank account, however Rob has slightly put me right on that point but I do fear there may be a conflict of interest there between long and short term interests. However I don't think there's a gravy train for anyone and I think it's unfortunate to make accusations to that affect.
The process is long and expensive but I'm not sure it could be any other way as long as we hold courses all over the world and and wish to be members of ISIA (which I do to be honest so I can at least get, I hope, a qualification that is more widely acknowledged and accepted than L2 is). I'm not sure I'd say they are ridiculously expensive if you compare them to equivalent training costs. Common Theory is in Scotland for historical reasons and personally I'd far rather do a course in BASIs birth place than end up in say the SE of England (no offence) and I'd be a bit hard pressed to name suitable terrain for the navigation parts of the course too but I may just be showing my ignorance of the 800/900/1000 metre peaks in the London/Hemel area Yes there are other suitable places I guess, Plas y Brenin comes to mind but although it is to the west of the SE I believe it is still geographically north of Watford which I sometimes feel is the real issue for many of those who complain about this - after all they seem perfectly happy to travel to all the rest of their courses in Verbier, Chamonix, Hintertux and wherever else 
| Quote: |
| No wonder CSIA have given up on ISIA, they seem to look after their members interests very well. |
Surely the CSIA are in a very different situation though, they have enough mountains and resorts not to need the international recognition that BASI members need. After all with the best will in the world the Scottish ski areas can't soak up all the BASI instructors that are now qualified ... and they are north of Watford anyway
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| I read a report on the ISIA conference in Budapest, in which BASI sent a representative, for a meeting that wasn't even attended by the French or Austrians, why did BASI bother going, how much did that cost? |
I recall Pete being as puzzled by their absence as anyone else was so I'd guess maybe their absence wasn't common knowledge beforehand?
Whether ISIA is the best vehicle for that necessary international recognition I don't know but I'm not aware that there's any alternative option, do you know of one?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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beanie1, would a members forum not be a good way forward?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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roga, there was one in the past but it wasn't use. I can always suggest it again, but my feeling is the same thing would happen. People speak about BASI here because they're here anyway - they don't come here specifically to discuss BASI.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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i think al lot of this goes back to demand.... many years ago (when i was teaching on a plastic slope in Glasgow 1988-93) the instructors were paid on a sliding scale dependant on qualification
ASSI £5.50, BASI grade 3 £6.50, Grade 2 £8.50 Grade 1 £10 this was 20 years ago, then the problem appeared, GAP courses & Snow centres and all of a sudden there is a glut of low qualified ski instructors and places fro them to ply their trade
when i started at Tamworth i was not teaching there but in 1994 they were paying club instructors or grade 2 irrespective £5.50-£6.00 per hour, the off snow staff were paid even less, WHY? (and this was the answer of the management) "we are the new place to work everyone wants to work here so we can pay them as little as we like, plenty more people will do the job just for the free skiing"
same thing applies now, because the lower qualifications have flooded the market the guys who have spent time and money getting more qualified are now over priced
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| Quote: |
| ski schools, exploitative? |
No, I don't think so. They reflect the supply and demand of Instructors, at least in those countries where there is a free market. Instructors don't have to take bad terms. I'd certainly tell any company asking me to pay for their uniform where to stick it.
However, I wonder if the OP's question is the right one ?
I've done over a thousand hours teaching for assorted ski schools and in almost every instance I effectively subsidise some one else's business.
Having spent well over ten thousand pounds and many many hours on training I'm now reached the conclusion that working on that basis simply devalues my skills. I'm good at what I do and I want to be paid a rate to reflect that.
In relation to BASI, I fear for the long term future of the organisation.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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All these debates about BASI, Euro Test, ISIA vs ISTD come back to one question.....
Do you think ski instructing is a full time career option (France) or something most people do on a casual / seasonal basis, perhaps for a few years in their 20s or when retired (USA / Canada / NZ) ?
Personally I think BASI do you a very good job. You can use the humble L2 to work in any country in the world (including even France as a stagiere if you pass the race test). Plus the ISTD has been accepted globally as equal to all other top level qualifications. For this they deserve credit.
Many peoples frustration comes from the fact that they will simply never be good enough for ISTD. However the standard of this qualification has been very much set by the French system. It is equally hard for a young French lad from Paris to become a full time ski instructor. However France is also just about the only place in the world you can make 20K+ from a 5 month winter season. If they didnt set the bar high in France then the wages would be lower (like 10 quid an hour!). You cant have it both ways.
If you don't want to teach in France then the L2 will take you lots of cool places. Switz, USA, Austria, NZ etc. Just don't expect teaching snowploughs on the nursery slopes to pay for a mortgage, kids, car etc!
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| I read a report on the ISIA conference in Budapest, in which BASI sent a representative, for a meeting that wasn't even attended by the French or Austrians, why did BASI bother going, how much did that cost? |
Answer to this is obvious. French and Austrian organisations are big enough to do what they want and have their own captive local markets. They wont take kindly to being dictated to by ISIA (sounds like they have fallen out with them). BASI on the other hand are very small fish and needs to do everything it can to be accepted globally.
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CEM, The pay structure you quoted was pretty much the same at Hemel as a plastic slope when I started in 1991. We were encouraged and helped to progress our qualifications to higher levels. Pay levels didn't increase until they were forced to by the introduction of the minimum wage, so Club Instructors were paid that and everyone else's wages were lifted in proportion. I think I was getting about £ 6.40 an hour as an ASSI, in 1995.
Now some 20 years after I started, in real terms I'm paid less than when I was a Club Instructor in 1991, it's now £ 7.70 hr, that's with BASI L2.
As of a month ago, a newly qualified BASI L1 is paid exactly the same as I am with 20 years experience and a far higher qualification. The Instructor's pay has been standardised to assist accounting.
There isn't an endless supply of Instructors, I sat down and tried to do the maths.
Taking all of BASI's qualified Instructors, how many actually teach? have they just done a gap course for something to do, or did the course for the experience/badge?
The full time Pro ones will be in the Alps in the Winter not in a Fridge.
How many who do teach part-time want to teach in the UK rather than just doing the odd week for Interski or the likes?
How many would teach, but can't because of work commitments?
How many live within a reasonable, say 1 hour commute of the Snow Centre?
How many want to teach in a Fridge?
How many want to give up their leisure time for £7.70 an hour?
What seems like a huge number of Instructors initially, soon get whittled down to a relatively small number once the above has been factored in.
The main Winter busy season is upon us, the full time pros are heading for the Alps, leaving the part-time Instructors to cover the busiest time. Emails requesting additional hours are a daily occurrence, which kind of proves the shortfall in the available pool.
Ski lesson are a major part of a slopes income, it wouldn't be profitable with recreational users alone. This Winter season I'm pretty sure will see a change forced on the management as to how they treat and reward their best asset - their Instructors.
When they're having to turn away lessons because they have nobody to take them. The initial excitement and novelty factor as well as the goodwill of the Instructors has pretty much worn off.
I still go because I still love teaching and deliver a great lesson irrespective of what I think about the state of the situation, that isn't the paying customer's concern.
I have friends there so can have a bit of a social in the bar afterwards, 2 nights a week is maximum for me.
I used to respond if there were shortages and I could do it, but no longer, I don't even read the emails any more.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Haggis_Trap, good post.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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My son did his L2 along with Roga and he did all his shadowing on real snow with real instructors in real lessons.
He chose to get qualified pre-gap year so as to be actually teaching for the season an not to go down the Gap Course route because it costs a lot and once qualified you have no opportunity to really use it.
Being of the same age he came to meet a lot of Gappies that season. To give an idea of scale in Verbier alone there are five or six Gap courses running each season with about 30 people per course. When my son got offered a full season job he was one of two first season L2s of his age to be taken on in the whole of Verbier.
Clearly the jobs oput there are a small % of those being "qualified" each year and anybody can see that BASI are pumping out hundreds of L2s who will probably never teach an hour in their lives....but can claim to be qualified.
He was very surprised to find that the 35 hours shadowing to be L1 followed by 35 hours of "experience" (which can also be shadowing) prior to L2 was undertaken in a rather interesting way by several of the Gap course providers: They claim that while you are in their lessons you are simultaneously shadowing the instructor, and on that basis 70 hours...no problem! Some do put the Gappies out with the associated ski schools for some hours of real shadowing in 1/2 term, but nobody does the full hours like that on the gap courses.
My daughter is now accumulating her L1 and pre L2 hours in the same way as her brother, every hour a "real" hour and has experienced a lot from being with different instructors in different ski schools. Mostly good, some bad, all valuable experience
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rungsp, great post and you highlight precisely the issues I have recently become aware of!
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
Plus the ISTD has been accepted globally as equal to all other top level qualifications. For this they deserve credit.
Many peoples frustration comes from the fact that they will simply never be good enough for ISTD
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That is of course true. The point is you have to actually WORK towards the ISTD. How many seasons do you think it takes on average a determined athletic person to get to ISTD? And how much money will it cost to complete the qualifications? I know a few people who have reached ISTD in the last few years and it took them 5-6 seasons. I do not know of one of them who passed every module first time, and I can estimate the actual cost of the training to get to the required standard and the exams fee/liftpass/accom at being c£25-30K
How do you propose people training for the ISTD pay for living in resort for those 5-6 season on poor pay and poor conditions in the countries that will let them teach without the ISTD and then afford the exams on top? Or is ski instructing only the preserve of the wealthy (the answer to that is almost certainly yes in my experience)? Or do I have to work as a waiter as evening job for 6 years.
ESF have plenty of failings, but at least they give their instructors FREE training (and free access to the stade, which is why they do so well at the eurotests). And although they are on a lower wage, its still a good living wage, the stagieres I know get plenty of hours, enough to live anyway. A lot of British ski schools are all about selling gap courses, then ISIA traing, then L4 training, then we'll give you a job. hahahaha once you are ISTD you can work for yourself and keep ALL your money! And yet people take the job they have been given with gratitude, coz thay have been conditioned to think thats the only way.
On the topic of gap courses, until ski schools stop getting 3 times the amount of applicants per position,who are willing to be extorted for what is essentially a badge of honour for them while on their gap-yah, pay and working conditions wont get better. Yes a lot of ski schools know this, and yes a lot of ski schools exploit this.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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sorry very off topic but
rungsp, it really winds me up when i hear of all the "pencil" hours people put in for shadowing.. hadnt heard that one before that when you are receiving a lesson you are somehow shadowing... I guess it counts as "ski school experience"
I was on my ISIA level 3 teach and two of the youngsters were proudly boasting in the pub how they never did an hour teaching before the course. they both got their "hours" signed off during race training courses for ET prep
Also the practice some GAP providers have of charging to do shadowing hours is lousy but at least the students are actually shadowing.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| kitenski wrote: |
| roga wrote: |
| (shadowing at L1 is frankly hardly comprehensive and the rules allow this) |
I do agree that there was very little emphasis on 'teaching' techniques within L1,
Greg |
I think this is one area where the BASI qualifications are weak. As I understand it SSE and similar put a lot more emphasis on teaching techniques.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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What I don't understand with BASI making everyone jump through so many hoops to meet ISIA reqs, is that the Austrians manage to do it all with much less. How many courses do you have to do to get BASI 3? For the Austrian equivalent (Landeslehrer) you only have three - 10 days for Landes 1, 10 days (or is it a week, can't remember) Alpine Safety course (offpiste), 10 days Landes 2.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| rungsp, it really winds me up when i hear of all the "pencil" hours people put in for shadowing.. hadnt heard that one before that when you are receiving a lesson you are somehow shadowing... I guess it counts as "ski school experience" |
This is precisely why I've been banging on above about shadowing and the gap courses, I can corroborate everything rungsp says, in fact I can get the head of ski school at the dry slope to corroborate this because we've had direct experience of it!
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I was on my ISIA level 3 teach and two of the youngsters were proudly boasting in the pub how they never did an hour teaching before the course. they both got their "hours" signed off during race training courses for ET prep
Also the practice some GAP providers have of charging to do shadowing hours is lousy but at least the students are actually shadowing. |
None of this surprises me although i hadn't heard the Eurotest one!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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clarky999, do you have to do a 2nd discipline for the Austrian qualification? That is one of the ISIA requirements. I don't agree with it (although as an option it probably helps with employment opportunities), but it's an ISIA thing.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rob@rar, yes, but it's included in Landes 1 and 2 (made a mistake above btw, Landes 2 is 15 days not 10 and alpine course is a week). Details here. Everyone (apart from the Brits) had to do a written English test as well as the written German test we all had to do for anwaerter, I don't know if there is more English/second language in Landes.
The lectures are fairly intensive, on my anwaerter they were a good few hours each night after the days training. I wonder if BASI couldn't just tag some of the extra modules onto other courses in this way too?
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Thu 3-11-11 14:07; edited 4 times in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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clarky999, OK, so that's 35 days for Austrian ISIA level qualification. BASI's ISIA level qualification is also 35 days if the quick count on my fingers and toes is accurate, plus a 2nd language module which is a phone interview. Not sure whether the intensity of the evening seminars is the same, but all BASI courses require this, including whatever written tests you have to do.
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clarky999, so that's something like 10+10+15=35days for Landes. It looks like the BASI ISIA is about the same at 34 days (5 day 2nd disc.; 5 day Common Theory; 5 day Teach; 10 day Tech; 6 day Moutain Safety; 3 day Coach 1...coach 2 now only needed for ISTD; 2nd language exam). So pretty similar, just packaged differently. It may also be relevant that we are a non-alpine nation, so the courses involve a lot of actual training, whereas the Austrians can assume a higher base level of personal competence, or training opportunities other than on the course itself? For example, AIUI, the Canadian courses are far more of a test that you are up to a given level, having done all the required training before you get there, rather than the BASI approach of on-course training to get you there (with the expectation that you are not at the required level before the course starts)
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GrahamN, one of us needs to check our arithmetic. I think Coach 1 will now be 4 days given the recent changes.
Edit: Ah, you got there already
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| clarky999 wrote: |
| The lectures are fairly intensive, on my anwaerter they were a good few hours each night after the days training. I wonder if BASI couldn't just tag some of the extra modules onto other courses in this way too? |
Generally BASI's ISIA level modules run back to back, so if you want to string them together (to save on travel costs, for example) you can, although having done 3+ weeks of BASI exams back to back it's mentally and physically very demanding. Breaking them down in to smaller modules does allow you to do them in a more piecemeal fashion if that is better for you.
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Aah ok, I thought there was a lot more to BASI! I guess being so modulated it just 'seems' more (especially with travel costs). GrahamN, I've only done the Anwaerter (base level), but that was 9 days of training and one of assessment, and I'm led to believe the others involve a fair amount of training too.
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