 Poster: A snowHead
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| david@mediacopy wrote: |
| VolklAttivaS5, Different systems. SEE issues the IVSI licence where as BASI issues the ISIA licence. |
I realise that bit, but do you have to have ISIA in order to get the top IVSI licence is what I mean, and therefore if so, then having ISIA instead of L2 makes that a benefit because it means you can get the top IVSI licence whereas with just L2 you can't? Or is that wrong?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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heidiky, might tap you up for some names, we are going to niseko and if we could hook up with some locals that would be sweet. did a week GS this year but had a lot of snow so didnt get much time in the gates and never got timed, i pretty much sucked my first few runs but who knows... might so some next year but am going to see if i can bang out my EMS first. havent been to NZ but have been thinking about doing a season down their at some point....
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| VolklAttivaS5 wrote: |
| david@mediacopy wrote: |
| VolklAttivaS5, Different systems. SEE issues the IVSI licence where as BASI issues the ISIA licence. |
I realise that bit, but do you have to have ISIA in order to get the top IVSI licence is what I mean, and therefore if so, then having ISIA instead of L2 makes that a benefit because it means you can get the top IVSI licence whereas with just L2 you can't? Or is that wrong? |
| Quote: |
VolklAttivaS5 - I realise that bit, but do you have to have ISIA in order to get the top IVSI licence is what I mean, and therefore if so, then having ISIA instead of L2 makes that a benefit because it means you can get the top IVSI licence whereas with just L2 you can't? Or is that wrong?
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No, you don't have to be ISIA qualified to be awarded an IVSI
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| skison wrote: |
| VolklAttivaS5 wrote: |
| david@mediacopy wrote: |
| VolklAttivaS5, Different systems. SEE issues the IVSI licence where as BASI issues the ISIA licence. |
I realise that bit, but do you have to have ISIA in order to get the top IVSI licence is what I mean, and therefore if so, then having ISIA instead of L2 makes that a benefit because it means you can get the top IVSI licence whereas with just L2 you can't? Or is that wrong? |
| Quote: |
VolklAttivaS5 - I realise that bit, but do you have to have ISIA in order to get the top IVSI licence is what I mean, and therefore if so, then having ISIA instead of L2 makes that a benefit because it means you can get the top IVSI licence whereas with just L2 you can't? Or is that wrong?
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No, you don't have to be ISIA qualified to be awarded an IVSI |
I think what VolklAttivaS5 is getting at is with a BASI L3 ISIA you can join SSE and get an automatic exemption to gain their L4 Coach award which comes with IVSI status, allowing you to travel with and coach club members in the Alps. Set up so that Race clubs could train in France or wherever using their own coaches. Restrictions are that coaches must travel with their club and that beginners are not allowed to be instructed.
You can of course obtain this qualification by doing the coaches course through SSE and have nothing to do with BASI.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Spyderman, ah thanks for the clarification on that. Yes that is what I was trying to ask.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
75% discount on lift pass in Aosta Valley with a BASI L2 licence. 8.50 euro for a day ticket.
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Not in Courmayeur - the French own the lift system!!
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skimottaret, Defo be able to put you in touch with people in Niseko. Yeah EMS is on the list, if only BASI didn't charge £1.2million per week! Never mind. NZ is great and with your isia sponsored visa is easy. I'm hoping to break even this season although not going to hold my breath! Pay down there is terrid...
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On a 'I think I know you from exams' front, pretty sure we did our NZ level 3 together Heidi! And Skimottaret, I work in Niseko, so any questions give me a shout.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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jimmer, will do man, tah
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| beanie1 wrote: |
| Quote: |
75% discount on lift pass in Aosta Valley with a BASI L2 licence. 8.50 euro for a day ticket.
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Not in Courmayeur - the French own the lift system!! |
Kinda says it all really.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Spyderman wrote: |
| beanie1 wrote: |
| Quote: |
75% discount on lift pass in Aosta Valley with a BASI L2 licence. 8.50 euro for a day ticket.
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Not in Courmayeur - the French own the lift system!! |
Kinda says it all really. |
???? How so.... Yes it's a French place name, but it's in Italy....
Or
Do you mean ... French = tight ???
In which case, 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| beanie1 wrote: |
| Not in Courmayeur - the French own the lift system!! |
In Tignes you do not get a reduction with ISIA but over the hill in Val D you get a 50% reduction!!
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jimmer, Wow did we?! Haha such a small world isn't it. Did you do TC or Mt Hutt?
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You know it makes sense.
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TC, I'm tall with long hair. Yeah very small world, especially in NZ. Wouldn't have worked it out if you didn't have your website link there, need to get me one of those!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| stewart woodward wrote: |
| In Tignes you do not get a reduction with ISIA but over the hill in Val D you get a 50% reduction!! |
50% on an Espace Killy pass, or just Val d'Isere only?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Fattes13, you ever try to get a discount with an ISIA stamp? I have and it got me a whopping 10% in austria and 20 minutes of copying licenses, checking with supervisors etc. , nothing in france, 75% in italy (same as the L2's with me)
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Got a 14/16 day pass in the Big 3 in Banff for 180 Dollars flashing the card when he thought it had an ISIA stamp on it. I was going to correct him but didnt want to cause any fuss 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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It's really just the same question, not an answer, to ask what the difference is between an "Instructor" (L2) and a "Teacher" (L3)? Presumably there is intended to be a difference.
Level 3
The Level 3 ISIA licence qualifies the student to teach up to parallel skiing and beyond. This includes techniques and tactics for bumps, steeper terrain, higher speeds and variable conditions within marked pistes and off piste on marked routes.
Level 2
Successful students will be able to ski to a competent level, and have the knowledge, ability and understanding to safely teach alpine skiing up to and including parallel standard on marked pistes.
www.basi.org.uk
The differences seem to be in what you are recognised as being qualified to teach beyond what a Level 2 instructor is - "beyond parallel, bumps, steeps, variable conditions - and where, ie offpiste on marked routes .
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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ccl, Interestingly, there was a post on here a while ago from a senior BASI member who suggested that it was as case of 'where' rather than 'what'. They suggested that L2 can teach on piste, while L3 can also teach off piste.
I guess to some extent the where defined the what.
The most interesting development lately is the Mountain Safety module being recognised as a stand alone qualification.
Certainly when I passed my 'Alpine Ski Instructor'* qualification (Then BASI 3 / Now Level 2) I could not find any guidance as to what could or could not be taught.
* slightly miffed this is no longer the on the licence. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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So with the exception of a very few resorts that offer minor discounts and the ability to get a visa to work outside the EU, and perhaps having your liability insurance cover you for teaching off piste skiing sorta bug all really 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| stewart woodward wrote: |
| In Tignes you do not get a reduction with ISIA but over the hill in Val D you get a 50% reduction!! |
50% on an Espace Killy pass, or just Val d'Isere only? |
50% on Espace Killy pass
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| david@mediacopy wrote: |
The most interesting development lately is the Mountain Safety module being recognised as a stand alone qualification. |
From BASI web site
'The BASI Mountain Safety awards are stand alone qualifications allowing the holder to work within the laws of the country they are in and the remit of the particular award they hold.
A Level 2 Instructor can hold all the Mountain Safety awards without proceeding through the Level 3 ISIA and Level 4 ISTD Qualifications.
It is up to the individual to keep their awards current and ensure they are working within the remit and obeying best practice at all times'.
But where can you use your 'stand alone' qualification?
Not in France. From what i here the rules in Switzerland are even more draconian.
Austria? Italy? Canada?
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beanie1,
Can you ask the question ' Where can you use your 'stand alone' qualification.
Many thanks
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| stewart woodward wrote: |
| rob@rar wrote: |
| stewart woodward wrote: |
| In Tignes you do not get a reduction with ISIA but over the hill in Val D you get a 50% reduction!! |
50% on an Espace Killy pass, or just Val d'Isere only? |
50% on Espace Killy pass |
Thanks, good to know.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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stewart woodward, What's the situation with regard to France (and Switzerland if you know?)
Does ISIA status 'validate' the MS or do you need to be ISTD etc. etc.
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stewart woodward,
| Quote: |
| to work within the laws of the country they are in |
of course this applies to all qualifications, not just the MS. The problem is it's sometimes hard to know exactly what the law is in any given Valley.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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jimmer, Wicked, what's your name???? I have a crap memory haha. You going to be in NZ this season?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| david@mediacopy wrote: |
stewart woodward, What's the situation with regard to France (and Switzerland if you know?)
Does ISIA status 'validate' the MS or do you need to be ISTD etc. etc. |
Sorry i don't really know. I think you need ISTD or to be a qualified guide in France. I understand from friends in Switzerland that they are NOT allowed offpiste at all with clients.
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stewart woodward, ok. I guess that follows in France, so no off piste with Stagiers(?). I wonder if the Swiss regulations change from Canton to Canton, or if the regs include itinerary routes.
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You know it makes sense.
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Haha, unsuprisingly, my name is Jim (sometimes introduce myself as James). No NZ for me this year, going to see what it's like down in Argentina. Will probably be back next year though.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The situation may have changed now, but when I investigated a few years ago...
IVSI & ISIA are 2 completely different qualifications, and my ISIA was not recognised by Snowsport England towards a qualification that was part of their IVSI structure.
They wanted me to start again from the beginning.
I declined.
Again I did it a fair few years ago, but the difference between a L2 and a L3 seemed to be ...
A whole different ballgame, the step from L2 to L3 is much larger, technicaly & conceptualy, than from a L3 to a L4
I enjoyed it (well, in hindsight) because it massively improved my skiing, and gave me a far deeper technical understanding of how skiing works.
The latter in particular vastly improved my teaching, especialy beyound parallel.
These improved performance analysis skills and technical understanding allowed me to teach clients individualy, rather than progressing via a set of pre-defined drills.
But beyond making you a better skier & a better teacher, there appears to be no real advantages to an ISIA qualification.
Despite all the courses, all the time & money, and all the teaching since, I still can't work in France & it is highly debatable anywhere else.
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Poster: A snowHead
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stewart woodward, I've asked, it's been passed on to Roy Henderson (who I think developed qualifications). WIll get back to you asap.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I'm probably being thick here, but does this mean that SSE and BASI have two, parallel (at least in part) systems of qualification? If so, why, and how do people choose which route to pursue? To a lay person, this seems unbelievably complicated, especially for a nation which has little of its own snow. Maybe I have misunderstood.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hurtle, in short, yes. BASI is aimed at professional ski instructors and coaches (ie paid by members of the public), and SSE at instructors and coaches that work in clubs.
A few years ago there was an attempt to amalgamate the qualfications (as there is a lot of cross over), but no agreement was reached.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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beanie1, gosh. Thanks.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hurtle, nightmare isnt it... I have both qualifications and it is nuts. All parties invested in a "Modernisation" study a few years ago to amalgamate all the qualifications but it broke down mainly due to Snow Sport England not wanting to play ball. BASI set up its own coaching award in addition to its instructor training and created a new Level 1 course in direct competition to SSE's offering and mopped up most of the people who would have done the SSE course work
There is good work going on behind the scenes to amalgamate the coaching (primarily aimed at race coaching) qualifications between the home nations (and yes there is a Snow Sport England, Scotland and Wales) Those three have coordinated their awards under Snow Sports UK banner and in turn SSUK and BASI are trying to get their respective coaching award pathways aligned. This should happen next year hopefully.
4 bald men fighting over a comb is the most apt analogy
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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ISIA you get a nice shiny badge! I Ski In Aviemore : )
PSG
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gilleski, heard that one from Sergio at brentwood a while back and it did make me chuckle 
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Hurtle, Its a real mess really and even the most cursory look at the SSE, SSS and SSW websites will show what a mess it is. I have spent the last couplke of days trying to get sorted out with a entry level course for coaching and my head hurts.
If you do decide to visit the websites of the various bodies it will aslo give you an object lesson in how not to design, populate and maintain a website for a professional organisation.
My guess is that as time passes the BASI route for coaching will become the prefered pathway simply due to better presentation and marketing (provided they have courses to sell).
Maybe as funding cuts start to bite something new and nore streamlined may rise out of the ashes?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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skimottaret,
| Quote: |
4 bald men fighting over a comb is the most apt analogy
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Thing is, there must be a huge number of punters like me, who don't understand any of this and just go for what's available and seems good. For instance, I had no prior idea of the implications of Rob being, currently, a humble Level 2 BASI: I just had some lessons with him, thought he was brilliant, and carried on. I can't be alone in this approach. So none of this helps the majority of punters, let alone help those instructors who want their professional body/bodies to further their cause in being able to work elsewhere in what is supposed to be a free market. My sympathies to you all! Kudos to you in making the effort to streamline matters, at least within BASI.
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skimottaret, out of interest, did you use your ISIA to gain exemption through SSE to gain your IVSI status or did you already have the IVSI status from doing the SSE coaching modules? If it's the former then surely your ISIA award is worth having over a BASI L2 because it would have saved you going through the additional SSE modules to gain the IVSI award? As in, you need to have the IVSI award to be able to run your Inside Out coaching clinics in the Alps don't you? 
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FAQ
