 Poster: A snowHead
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beanie1, I'd like to be special, but obviously they haven't recognised that in me 
But to be serious I don't think I'd want to do more than a week with Interski, if that, with trying to fit in one or two BASI courses, hopefully a couple of weeks teaching in Italy with Wayne, a couple of weeks with Jane, some BASI training and the stuff that Scott and I are planning it's going to be a busy winter.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Boredsurfing,
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trying to fit in one or two BASI courses, hopefully a couple of weeks teaching in Italy with Wayne, a couple of weeks with Jane, some BASI training and the stuff that Scott and I are planning it's going to be a busy winter.
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I make that third on the list?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I find it's best not to make lists otherwise people start getting confused about the grand order of things.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Wayne wrote: |
| "Everyone" gets paid more than the part time people at interski - think people do it just for a holiday anyway so not a problem just getting pocket money |
Who pays more for part timers though wayne (apart from Folgarida)?
Astons & Skiing Europe certainly don't!
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| roga wrote: |
Who pays more for part timers though wayne (apart from Folgarida)?
Astons & Skiing Europe certainly don't! |
Can't speak for anyone else, sorry.
But
IMO (so may be wrong, as I am about most things  )
BASI is always on about raising the standards and profile of UK ski teachers and they make strenuous efforts to continually raise-the-bar to ensure that UK teachers, are not only seen as equal to other nationals but also actually are the same standard.
You have to ask yourself why then are non-ISTD teachers from Britain seen as of a lower standard, not by foreign ski associations and school but by UK ski TO's who seem to think (and rightly so it turns out) that, after years of training, UK teacher will, in effect, work for pocket money.
(When I say “standard”, I am not talking about skiing standards but rather the standard of employee that a company would need to supply to a client to able to charge for ski lesson.). Do these companies charge a client more for local teachers ? No, so why do they pay the teacher from the UK less.
What does that say about the recognition given to UK teacher by some UK TO’s ?
OK, there may be some UK teachers, that do ski their teaching as just a hobby or some form of paid-for holiday and it gives them something to talk about in the bar for the other 50 weeks of the year. But (again) IMO, most teachers take their teaching very seriously, they understand that people (clients) are paying, sometimes, large sums for their lesson and, for this reason amongst others, they treat it seriously. S.E.L.
Regardless of what their adverts in BASI news say about extolling the virtues of UK teachers, you can normally tell what a company (really) thinks of its employees by the wages they pay.
The argument that if they pay more for ski teachers then they would become in some way uncompetitive and their clients would go with another operator as they have to supply transport and accommodation, are (remember I work for a TO so I know the real costs involved) are to put it politely, bo!!ocks.
So, question!!
(I’m not going to mention any individual companies BTW.)
Before you answer, have a think about this. When comparing the differences between what companies say about their teachers to prospective clients and what they pay the people actually running the lessons. Remember what my granddad used to say “it’s not what people say that maters, it’s what they do”. Mind you my granddad (who got his ear shot off at Dunkirk) was a nutter in later years so, take with a pinch of salt.
Assuming that the statement “you pay peanuts and you get monkeys” is basically true, is the excellent work that BASI is doing in raising-the-bar being completely and continually undermined by some companies, who show an obvious lack of respect for UK ski teachers.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Tue 8-09-09 8:36; edited 2 times in total
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Wayne, they pay what they need to, what market forces dictate. Why would any TO pay more than they need to? If all the BASI 2s suddenly refused to get out of bed for less than £x per hour, they would have to pay them more. Local instructors demand a higher wage, they wouldn't do it for less.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Just to illustrate my point - about 5/ 6 years ago when Aosta Valley toughened up the rules about number of days per season non-ISTD level instructors could work, Interski pretty much doubled the weekly wage paid to instructors - because it had suddenly become a lot harder to find enough instructors.
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| beanie1 wrote: |
| Just to illustrate my point - about 5/ 6 years ago when Aosta Valley toughened up the rules about number of days per season non-ISTD level instructors could work, Interski pretty much doubled the weekly wage paid to instructors - because it had suddenly become a lot harder to find enough instructors. |
Can't comment on individual companies. It's up to you to decide on a level that would change remunerations from pocket money into a wage.
IMO A "wage" would be an amount that shows a respect for the amount of work you have put into getting the qualifications they (the company) are looking for. It doesn't have to be a set amount as each person has a different amount. But "everyone" knows what is taking the p!ss and what ain't.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Wayne, well yes, but as long as there are plenty of instructors prepared to work for that wage level, why would TOs pay more?
And to be honest - if you work it out on an hourly basis it's really not that bad - works out about £7 or £8 per hour, plus full board and lodging and transport to resort which you could argue would double that.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
Do these companies charge a client more for local teachers ? No, so why do they pay the teacher from the UK less.
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Because they can. TOs consider all of their staff to be disposable items who work for fun and don't consider what they're doing to be a 'proper' job. This will continue for as long as they can find people happy to work on that basis.
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| Quote: |
Do these companies charge a client more for local teachers ? No, so why do they pay the teacher from the UK less.
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Because they can. TOs consider all of their staff to be disposable items who work for fun and don't consider what they're doing to be a 'proper' job. This will continue for as long as they can find people happy to work on that basis.
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You know it makes sense.
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I totally agree with what you say Wayne but unfortunately, as beanie1 says, there are other factors that allow TOs to get away with paying lower wages.
I guess, as you intimate, the only way to 'force' them to pay higher wages would be to have some sort of mass boycott by instructors of these TOs but frankly I don't see that happening to be honest. After all what are the alternatives? I don't see any with the honourable exception of Folgarida but if there were more like them who were willing to pay 'proper' wages I guess some of the low paying TOs might be forced to reconsider their policies due to lack of numbers applying. However, as things stand, I suspect most people at L2 are willing to work for these rates given part of the payoff is gaining on snow experience as well as having some time to themselves to ski and train whilst in resort.
Also it's worth pointing out that expectations amongst TOs varies, as I understand it some expect 4 hours a day with an hours supervision at lunchtime and a one hour prize giving; others expect 10/12 hour days and offer little free time for the same, or less, wages - quite a difference IMHO.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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roga, absolutely. As a L2 it's not THAT easy to find places to work part time and gain your 200 teaching hours. Interski in particular is a great set up for very new and inexperienced instructors - very well organised, staff training, free ski time etc, whereas some of the other TOs leave you to get on with it a lot more - could be a bit daunting for a newly qualified instructor.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| roga wrote: |
| if there were more like them who were willing to pay 'proper' wages ...... |
There are LOTS of schools looking for people during half term. But it seems that most people like the security of having someone sort out their transport, accommodation, meals, lift pass, uniform, etc, etc for them - nothing wrong with that, wish someone would do it for me  .
There is also the problem of language. If you call a school in Austria in German, or an Italian school in Italian, you are more likely to get through to someone who can make you an offer.
Basically, there are jobs out there but they don’t have the “logistic support” that you can get from a UK based company.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Wayne, true, I've looked at this before. However, once I've paid for my flight, accommodation, food etc I'm in the red!!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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^^ Wayne, I don't doubt what you say but I just wish I knew who they were ... for my part I'd have probs if I were to try to do the deal in German or Italian given I have few words in those languages unfortunately.
^^^ beanie1, luckily you can make up hours in the UK too at domes or dry slopes and I have considered trying Scotland too (where they pay more than the companies we're discussing) but that'd be far easier if I was closer and able to work weekends when the demand is there (never predictable given the nature of the Scottish weather).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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roga, yes but it'd take a long time and a lot of weekends to do all your hours on an artificial slope, and it's not always convenient if you don't live close. I did mine about 50:50 in the Alps and UK, but a week with Interski gave me as many hours as about 10 weeks race coaching at Bromley, and I had an hour drive each way to do that.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I got a 'special' email too. It was then in the newsletter that got sent out, anyone heard any more 'special' news yet?
:-0
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Not yet. The last I heard from Emma Stocks was about a week ago, and they were still waiting on the confirmation one way or the other.
Got my first week booked already though, just incase it doesn't happen.
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Okay then, a few months on from the last post...
Good news it would appear on the AVMS requirement front (or at least it is for those of us that hadn't got around to doing it yet...)
That's by-the-by though. More importantly, who's got their dates and where/when are you out!?
My first week involves travelling out to Oxford on the 2nd January and then off to, probably, Courmayeur.
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I'm out at Easter, probs Courmayeur.
Rest of my free weeks this season I'm teaching in Scotland, which frankly I'm looking forward to probably as much, if not more than Courmayeur - pays better too 
Have also managed almost 50 hours at Gloucester since October which isn't bad IMHO.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'm out in Courmayeur 12-20 Dec. Then Pila 6-14 Feb and again 3 -11 April but in Zermatt a week before that so going to try and see if i can get to Cervinia and get a lift down to Aosta from interski.
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FAQ
