 Poster: A snowHead
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rjs, I thought standard length for female stock skis was 181cm or thereabouts as the rules specify 180cm minimum? I know FIS have tolerances of -5cm in the rules for up-to FIS level competitions (but not world/europa cup or continental cup) but thought this was to allow older equipment to be used that would be rendered useless by the new rules, and these tolerances would be deprecated soon.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Sideshow_Bob, The tolerance figure isn't to allow older equipment to be used, 175 is perfectly legal for girls below Continental Cup level. The sidecut radius rules will be enforced next season, but those skis will still be usable for (FIS) Masters racing.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rjs, got the updated equipment specs for next year? Interested to see what the radius requirements are. Still I don't see a lot of adult race stock GS skis available in a 175cm, they always seem to be the non-stock or 'cheater' versions.
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rjs, absolutely, the ones i'm thinking of are 162cm and just meet the radius requirement - not really a GS ski at all, but hopefully a bit stiffer than an "all round" ski.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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david@mediacopy, you're right, it's not that easy! I've had this conversation with a trainer, i can understand the rule but the research doesn't seem to have been done before bring it in. You're pretty much limited to big fat skis which are unsuitable, or GS skis due to what manufacturers make!!
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stewart woodward,
i'm sure in the catalogue for the BASI offer the 9x in 162cms were about 16m, as that's what i was planning to get - although the Rossi website appears to show a different range?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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stewart woodward, A review of the skis on line said the same thing, that the actual skis are marked 17 and the catelogue is wrong....
but if you use one of the sidecut radius calculators on line at EPIC the 170 ski radius works out to be 14.7....
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With hindsight I can imagine the published radius being 'adjusted' for marketing purposes  I also noticed that the sizes on the US site were different again.
I wonder how accurate the EPIC tool is ?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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david@mediacopy, The author of the epic tool says + - .5M but i doubt there is any consistent way they measure this...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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skimottaret, which 18m skis were you on?
Anyone any opinions on iM82 or Legend 8000 for BASI courses? They're both about 80mm-ish with 18m-ish radius and famed all-rounders.
Sounds like new 9X Oversize may fall into same category?
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Fri 26-12-08 13:19; edited 1 time in total
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| slikedges wrote: |
| Legend 8000 for BASI courses? |
I think they'd make the on-piste performance quite hard work. I'd want something a bit more nimble than that.
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You know it makes sense.
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rob@rar, I just skied iM82 in 177cm (too long for me) and they seemed pretty good at clean carved short-ish turns though needing to be worked more than say Neos or Yaka Jams. Haven't skied any Legends yet.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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slikedges, sorry, I think I was confusing the 8000 with the 8800. The 8000 is just a bit bigger than the ski I did most of last season's BASI stuff on. I probably wouldn't want to go any bigger than that though.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| slikedges wrote: |
| Legend 8000 for BASI courses? |
I think they'd make the on-piste performance quite hard work. I'd want something a bit more nimble than that. |
I did most of my BASI on Legend 8800. We did have masses of fresh for most of the 2 weeks though. I did have other skis with me, but only used the for 2 of the days. Off piste was epic and they coped with high speed piste stuff really well too. Only struggled a bit in the bumps and very short radius turns.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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slikedges, volkl AC30 177... Very nice ski but needed a lot of pressure to work the ski even at my bulk. really nice in long radius turns but hard work for everything else. not sure they would be right for you...
have heard good things on the IM series, my buddy in Courchevel really liked em but i cant remember if it was the 82 or something a bit narrower. My supershapes at 71 waist were fine for off piste and the feeling i got from Izzy was that variables werent too harshly graded as she thought my variables were ok ish even though i thought my off piste skiing was pants.
Im with Rob on the legends i used them on my MS course and not sure they would be good as all rounders, try something nimble that works in the bumps and edgy enough for LR turns.
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I used to ski Legend 8000s for about 4 years. I would call them good all rounders, but I wouldn't like to try pushing them too hard for piste performance-type skiing, as they didn't hold a good enough edge on a hard piste. A bit of softness on the top and they're fine though. Sidecut radius was 21m (in 180cm), and they were great fun bending into shorter turns. At they time I wasn't good enough at bumps to really comment on their ability there - although I did have a fairly decent bumps lesson on them which went OK, although the length made things noticeably difficult.
A couple of weeks ago I was skiing the Elan GSX, 18.6m at 176cm, and they were great skis ...on piste. Great edge hold, beautifully stable and slid nicely when needed - great for scarved turns and short radius too. Did a reasonable job in deep soft stuff, although flotation was noticeably elusive, but unfortunately  I was nowhere near good enough to take them into bumps and heavier variable chop though. Changed to some Nordica Afterburners for that stuff, on which I had a ball. Trainers were on 1) Head Supershape Speed, 2) Salomon 2V race stock (and he crucified the bumps ), 3) Supershapes, changing to Monsters for the powder day, and 4) erm....I forget but possibly Salomon 3Vs. The last two obviously didn't meet the radius requirement.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Might be an idea to compile a list of BASI "legal" skis and then have people review what they think of them....
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Elan GSX, 18.6m at 176cm
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GrahamN, they sound nice.... i am seeing lots of instructors on Head supershapes this year...
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| i am seeing lots of instructors on Head supershapes this year... |
Through choice or sponsorship?
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rob@rar, not sure.. but a couple Magic guys who i skied with and pay for their own were on heads. Parallel Lines in Meribel are sponsored but a fair few ESF guys were on supershapes...
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skimottaret, think the majority of Trainers I've skied with in the last couple of years had kit sponsors, either personal or through their ski school.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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rob@rar, oh for sure at trainer level they would be sponsored or have accounts. it was just that as i was on heads i seemed to notice loads of random instructors on heads as well.
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My L2 Trainer was Salomon sponsored, but skied for a couple of days on a new pair of skis he'd just paid for himself: Movement Sparks.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Spyderman wrote: |
| Only struggled a bit in the bumps and very short radius turns. |
I'm told the Trainer's guidance directs that performance should be assessed relative to the ski being used.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| but if you use one of the sidecut radius calculators on line at EPIC the 170 ski radius works out to be 14.7.... |
The "problem" with that calculator is that it assumes constant longitudinal stiffness.
My Nomad Crimsons are significantly less shaped than the 9Xs, but are claimed to be 17m @ 169. That's because the tips and tails are fairly floppy.
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You know it makes sense.
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| FlyingStantoni wrote: |
| skimottaret wrote: |
| but if you use one of the sidecut radius calculators on line at EPIC the 170 ski radius works out to be 14.7.... |
The "problem" with that calculator is that it assumes constant longitudinal stiffness.
My Nomad Crimsons are significantly less shaped than the 9Xs, but are claimed to be 17m @ 169. That's because the tips and tails are fairly floppy. |
Sorry, but I find that very difficult to believe. The published radius of the ski is purely due to its geometry. Stiffness has nothing to do with the sidecut radius. It may make a big difference to what kind of turn shape the ski will make in softer snow, and the ease with which turns may be inititated. There may also be differential radii etc.. There is also a difference based on where the centre of the ski is and associated differences in tip and tail width, but that's still nothing to do with stiffness.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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GrahamN, I think it depends on what specs the manufacturers are using...
For instance a guy on a course last week was on Rossi Mutix skis and depending on which "power arm" he had on the manufacture published a different "turning" radius. Not sure what BASI will use/enforce, pure geometry or published turning radius, the whole thing is a minefield.
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Poster: A snowHead
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What happens if you turn up on skis that have too short a radius or skis that don't have a radius stamped on them? Are you dq'd from the course?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Sideshow_Bob wrote: |
| What happens if you turn up on skis that have too short a radius or skis that don't have a radius stamped on them? Are you dq'd from the course? |
That's what I'm waiting to find out. I suppose if BASI were really serious they would make a condition of booking that you will stick to their ski rules, on pain on DQing without refund.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rob@rar - there's talk of them holding the rule over for another year.
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Perhaps if BASI were to consider publishing a list of accepted models or accepted email enquiries as to the suitability of an individuals skis for use on courses.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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skimottaret, don't get on with many Volkls - they tend to be designed for bigger people! I like yours and Snowshark's idea of a BASI approved list.
GrahamN, spoke to the buyer at EBs today who reckons that the once great Legends have probably seen their day now and that better was available, so in line with what many incld yourself have intimated on this thread. Seems that many people, as rob@rar suggested before, are going with wider but still piste orientated skis, maybe mid70s widths. I'm leaning towards the iM82s though...
Sideshow_Bob, rob@rar, FlyingStantoni, will indeed be interesting to hear what'll happen if you rock up on a pair of skis that don't conform, or if they'll postpone implementation.
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slikedges, I have Volkl Racetigers as my GS ski atm.... and I do need to lose weight but I'm hardly huge... the kid had them before me was a teenage boy...
Also have the Elan GSX and SLX - both really nice skis.... but right atm the Volkl is the ski for me..
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okay here was my short list for >17M all round skis... i went with AC30's cause they were £218 
Stockli stormrider Off road XL 174 111/75/102 R18.5 or 184 in 20.8 R
Atomic nomad crimson 176 126/86/114 R18
Movement Spark 183 121/82/110 R18
Volkl AC30 177 118/76/104 R 18.4
AC 40 125-82-110 R17.8m at 177cm
Noridca nitrous
Head IM 82
Blizzard Magnums 7.9 123/81/108 179 17 @ 172 est 18.0 at 179
K2 recon 174 119/78/105 R 18
Volkl Karmas 177 119/87/117 R 20
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skimottaret, Do you know if there is an twin-tip exclusion as well ? I ski Karmas and would be fairly happy to use them on an 2 tech course but I've heard that twin tips are out of favour.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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david@mediacopy, good point, not sure there is anything official but twins are very frowned upon due to the rooster tail... a guy had some on my L2 and was asked to change... I have some Karmas as well and hence being on my short list but after skiing the AC30's wouldnt dream of using em for a tech as i find em too slow edge to edge but whatever works i guess...
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david@mediacopy - twin tips are very much frowned upon.
skimottaret - I'd personally go with the Ti model in the Crimsons. The one's I've got work better as telemark skis for me than they do on piste.
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