 Poster: A snowHead
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Nick Zotov, As a country hick around here, I've frequently been very close to being wiped out by cretins (old and young) driving through red ad crossings!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Masque, I just know I am setting myself up here, but what is a "red ad" crossing? Be kind, now.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Nick Zotov, glad you asked. I reckon it's a typo but with Masque anything's possible. A good reply Masque will cancel the beer you owe me. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Nick Zotov, Nope . . just me having a brain ƒart! "red ad" = red light pellican crossing
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I had my shoulder dislocated last year by a completely out of control skiier. He had no excuse since I was standing in full view near the lifts waiting for friends. It still makes me angry that anyone with so little control is allowed on the slopes. He must have weighed about 15 stone and I weigh 8. A child could easily have been killed by someone that large hitting them. I have since come to the conclusion that some sort of 'ski test' before hitting (no pun intended) the slopes ought to be introduced. After all, we would think it mad to let a beginner driver out on the road and I don't see there is much difference, except that the slopes have no lanes or 'Give way' signs at junctions. It wouldn't be that difficult to arrange if resorts took the initiative. What do others think? And does anyone have influence with whoever makes the rules? I know part of the fun of skiing is the frisson of danger, but that ought to be in the skiiers control - not some thoughtless, careless idiot's. I want to be able to ski until I'm in my dotage, but every time I go now I find my confidence shaken by people who nearly crash into me.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Masque, OK, thanks.
Jane, Great in principle, tricky to do. I suppose one could have a chipped card that formed the basis of a lift pass - like those hands-free ones used at many resorts, now. But there would be a huge problem testing every skier in any reasonable time, the cost would be high, and the problem of validating the pass to the bearer almost insurmountable - unless skiers had chips inserted into their bodies. Which might cause objections.
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Masque,  on face. You still owe.
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Jane, I don't think a test would have much effect. My daughter's learning to drive at the moment, and the sight of L plates by some, who are presumably qualified drivers, causes them to attempt the most mind-bogglingly stupid and dangerous manouevres.
I think piste-police administering instant justice would be the most cost-effective way to improve matters.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Theoretically (sp?) possible to turn ski pole into a Tazer? 
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I've just come back from Castleford where they do a 4 hour fast track lesson. At the end of this lesson people are allowed on to the slopes, they are supposed to be able to make controlled turns. Having watched the lessons and then seen people take to the slope the next time they go they quite clearly do not have adequate control. The worrying thing is these people when they go to a resort will not have control but will probably not have ski school lessons. Very often at Xscape these people have no regard for anyone in front of them as they descend in their racing snowplow stance without making any turns at all. On Thursday I saw 2 people taken out through no fault of their own. I shall not go back to Xscape until the summer when it will be quieter and safer
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Russell, that's more or less exactly the point I was trying to make, the teachers just want to get there pupils skiing down the slope and the students are just not aware that tey're doing anything wrong because they've not been told any different in their lessons, also they think having done their basic lessons that they know all there is to know about skiing/boarding, you only need to see some people going down real slopes to see their confidence rapidly burning off before they crash to realise just how stupid some people can be
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I think for snowdomes its a money issue they are expensive to run so they get as many through lessons as they can and tell them they just need to come and practise regularly. But when yo come back and practise you develop lots of bad and dangerous habits because the lessons haven't covered enough ground.
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D G Orf,
And what with the advent of the carving ski making off-piste even more accessable very early into
a skiers experience, and the same with snowboarders, I would expect more injuries incurred by people
who really shouldn't be there.
I have seen numerous people on the Aigulle du Midi with nothing but what they would have on the piste - no pack, rope, shovel, bleeper, guide etc etc...attempting to do the Valle blanche with no other plan than to follow 'others'.
They may think the run is a path and it is,by and large, but they should have a guide if they cannot cope with an 'incident' themselves. This might be something as trivial as losing a ski or a pole. It is a hell of a walk out in good conditions let alone anything else.
By all means do it with a guide, it is amazing scenery, but it can quickly turn from a playground to serious high alpine terrain and all that comes with it...!!!
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You know it makes sense.
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That and the fact that new skiers just don't realise how rapidly conditions can change on the mountain 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The driving analogy is of course only partly applicable..... driving is almost a neccesity for many, those in charge of roads in no way care how many drivers there are, in fact they would be happy to lessen the numbers. Skiing is a luxury recreation and the resorts want as many people as possible..... something like a test would no doubt lessen numbers significantly as people decided to try something different and the skiing powers that be wouldnt want that I imagine, even if it did mean much increased safety.
A side note, I have only been on canadian greens and blues so havent been on particularly high speed slopes. However, I more often heard a skier blasting down behind me prior to seeing them..... so by my logic, all the new snow gear with built in audio odds and ends are actually severly limiting your ability to look out for yourself..... so following on from what I suggested earlier, if you arent going to do everything to look out for yourself, then it is not really on to complain about others (even though you arent committing the same crimes as they).
ad
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Poster: A snowHead
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Jane, we have all lost control at times. I am expert in falling over when stationary, in a group, usually talking about where to go next, and I usually take out at least two others as I go over. Your 15 stone guy may have just swerved to avoid some silly kid rushing to get ot the front of the lift queue, and lost control as a result.
Of course, he may have been an idiot, but be wary of judging others so quickly. It might be you next time.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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In the busy areas near the lifts anyone skiing has to have 110% control, surely? - I cannot think of any circumstances where hitting someone who is stationary by a lift could be excused, kids rushing around or not.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| PG wrote: |
| The accidents have started, a few so far over the other side of the Pond, with today's report of a fatality at Mount Holly in the US, an out of control youngster of just 12 taking a bend too fast and crashing into a tree. He wasn't wearing a helmet. |
Wow! This is a little close to home. I raced out of Flushing High School and our home area was Mt. Holly! Yikes!
I wouldn't have believed that you could go fast enough or not see clearly enough to be hurt that bad at Mt. Holly. Wow...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
but be wary of judging others so quickly. It might be you next time.
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Thank you Jonpim for the advice but I'm there before you. Of course we have all been learners and I have been out of control myself - so to some extent it's there but for the grace of god ..........
But this guy was just incapable of turning but was going like a rocket. Unfortunately I wasn't looking (I was blowing my nose!) - so I couldn't get out of the way. But there were plenty of witnesses who all agreed that he came down off the piste at breakneck speed and just went for me like a guided missile. He was arrested by the piste police and signed a document admitting liability and I was given his name, address etc - which I lost in the trauma of having my shoulder put back and getting back to base. But nothing else happened to him I assume. If I'd had his address maybe I would have sued him but probably not because as you say - we've all been there. I agree really that tests would be difficult to implement but something might have to be done if the pistes get any busier and continue to be used like roads with no rules. Oh dear - I sound like a complete know all/goody goody/little white hen etc. Sorry - it's one of those things I get steamed up about now!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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More on the death in Mount Holly from the Detroit News
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It remains unclear whether wearing a helmet would have saved his life.
According to the Oakland County Medical Examiner's Office, Ralph Margetson III died of massive head and chest trauma as a result of the fatal collision with a tree. It was Mount Holly's first skiing fatality.
The victim's father, also named Ralph, has said he doesn't believe wearing a helmet would have saved his son's life. |
The article also has lots of statistics on the use of helmets. 15-24 % of skiers / boarders in US are now using them and
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The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission estimated in a 1999 report that 11 ski and snowboard deaths per year attributed solely to head injuries might be prevented by the use of helmets.
The commission found 188 ski and snowboard deaths from 1990 through 1997. More than half of the deaths -- 108 -- were due at least partly to head injuries.
Eighty-six of the 108 deaths resulted from collisions with a stationary object, usually a tree or pole, the commission found. |
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Well at Les Arcs they are starting a 'considerate skier' program and will reward acts of good behaviour or safe skiing at the end of the season. Let's hope they are spoilt for choice.
It's a good idea and the website also has links to the safety rules, if only everyone going to the resort had a copy of these before they arrived...
http://www.ski-lesarcs.com/gb/pistes/prevention.php
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As a motorcyclist i see many similarities between staying alive on a bike and skiing. Basically everyone is out to get you, when taught to ride a bike the first thing you are taught is to ride defensively, all other road users are blind and cannot see you etc All this applies to you as the downhill skiier, i.e. if you hear someone coming up behind you a bit fast, move to the side of the pieste and let them past. I know you shouldn't have to but it saves you getting taken out.
And as the uphill skiier i do what i do on my bike, use my observation and anticipation skills and only travel as fast as i can see. I.e. know your stopping distance and think, would you be able to stop in time if you're going round a blind turn and you're faced with a large solid object (thinking about this definately slows me down a bit) if not, then you're going to fast!
I think the other problem is people simply do not realise they can actually hurt themselves (and others) when skiing or boarding and tend to ski with the no fear attitude.
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| The_Mac_Daddy wrote: |
| As a motorcyclist |
Not meaning to imply anything about your good self..... many motorcyclists I see are as bad as the thoughtless skiers! If I had a pound for every time that my final glance in the mirror reveals a biker who has squeezed into an unfeasibly small and silly position behind/infront/beside me, id have bought a mountain all to myself!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I agree completely. This is why it is comparable to skiiers, good ones and bad ones. My point is there are ways to maximise your safety whilst out on the slopes.
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It amazed me when I had my first couple of weeks on snow - I'm there are a comparative beginner cruising down reds but seriously slowing down to pass other less confident skiers with space to spare - while other, I presume "advanced" skiers hurtled past me/others at a rate of knots and little space. At one point, our instuctor was showing a group of us carving turns on a fairly steep section of a red (we were all well off to the side of the piste), when another skier almost took him out before complaining that our instructor was "all over the piste" - when he was doing long carving turns - which even I suspected I would have been able to anticipate and pass at a reasonable speed without any problems.
It seems to me that the problem is as much to do with over-confident "the mountain is mine" advanced skiiers as it is with learners being on slopes/going at speeds they can't handle.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| IanB wrote: |
| It seems to me that the problem is as much to do with over-confident "the mountain is mine" advanced skiiers as it is with learners being on slopes/going at speeds they can't handle. |
Same thing, overconfident "advanced" skiers don't exist by definition 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
| overconfident "advanced" skiers don't exist by definition |
I'm trying to think of the last time a race club skier "buzzed" me on the slopes somewhere. I can't.
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| IanB wrote: |
| I'm there are a comparative beginner cruising down reds but seriously slowing down to pass other less confident skiers with space to spare - while other, I presume "advanced" skiers hurtled past me/others at a rate of knots and little space. |
that sounds awfully familiar!
ad
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You know it makes sense.
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I'm sure "they" think they're advanced anyhow.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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PG,
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the last time a race club skier "buzzed" me on the slopes
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Unfortunately I can - 2 weeks before Xmas, both adult racers, and kids - the kids are worst because they scream as they ski down to the top of the raceway! (it's very un-nerving)
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Poster: A snowHead
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| pollittcl wrote: |
PG,
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the last time a race club skier "buzzed" me on the slopes
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Unfortunately I can - 2 weeks before Xmas, both adult racers, and kids - the kids are worst because they scream as they ski down to the top of the raceway! (it's very un-nerving) |
Not proper ski racers from a race club then. They don't scream. At least, not in Europe anyway... 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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PG, ah, but I'm not in Europe! And it was only the little kids
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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PG, The race club here are pains - too fast, too close, and too annoyed at tll the pesky tourists! Of course the trainers are to blame, but it's no excuse.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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PG, easiski, the race club in Megève seem very disciplined. Obviously travelling at speed, but I've never seen them come near to endangering anyone.
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FAQ
