 Poster: A snowHead
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No - I am like the old guy in "It’s a wonderful life" - still working towards my wings.
I go for the last bits of the ISTD this season after which I shall - of course - be able to part the sea, heal the sick, strip girls with a glance, speak fluent French and generally be omnipotent and omniscient
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Johnathon Anderson wrote: |
| fatbob wrote: |
| I've always been surprised that BASI ran specific off piste training courses for instance as my default assumption was that people who were wanting to be instructors had at least a reasonable grounding in such a fundamental aspect of the sport. |
They don't - they are called (by some) off-piste course but they are in fact off-piste mountain safety course teaching and assesing te skills required to lead small groups off piste and the required safety precuations needed.
This is not BASI's doing but a requirement of the ISIA |
Thanks that makes more sense.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rob@rar, 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Johnathon Anderson, what have you got left to do on your ISTD?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Gold...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| beanie1 wrote: |
| Johnathon Anderson, what have you got left to do on your ISTD? |
Yeah - cheers. Me and my mate are meeting up in Geneva for some hard study of the central theme in the local bars for a couple of days - then driving up to tash for a few days pre-falling-sessons
Been on bumps for the (it seems like) last 200 years - so may not be able to walk home from the geneva bars (and I'm sticking to the excuse)
Are you going??
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to the AGM? no, not going.
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| Quote: |
beanie1 wrote:
Johnathon Anderson, what have you got left to do on your ISTD?
Yeah - cheers. Me and my mate are meeting up in Geneva for some hard study of the central theme in the local bars for a couple of days - then driving up to tash for a few days pre-falling-sessons
Been on bumps for the (it seems like) last 200 years - so may not be able to walk home from the geneva bars (and I'm sticking to the excuse)
Are you going??
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Ye What? 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Johnathon Anderson, well good luck! At least there is no limit for us on how many times we can try it, like there is for the French...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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for what its worth Johnathon Anderson came in here and admitted this was not his real name, he proceeded to post trash about PK leaving BASI..... now he starts this thread...
I smell FISH
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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CEM, Yep, but big fish or small fish
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Johnathon Anderson,
I have thought about joining BASI but the SKGB offer more badges ("going for gold") as do the scouts who incidentally also offer free condoms. Has BASI ever considered offering free BASI coloured condoms?
PS Do BASI badge holders wear their underpants over their trousers like other superheroes?
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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monster77
monster77
Guest
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[quote="Johnathon Anderson"]
| Arno wrote: |
| fatbob wrote: |
i was actually really shocked at how little off-piste experience some of the people on my course had. they were probably better at carving pretty lines in the snow on a groomer but really quite weak at steeps, variable etc |
This is where the problem starts. Many people have a self assessed (or mate assessed “you’re really good you are”) assumption of their level of skill.
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If you think you are at the level, self assessed or mate assessed, why shouldn't you take a BASI course. You may just be wasting money but that is your choice.
Isn't that why a BASI course is run over two weeks? Week 1, learn what you need to do to achieve the pass level.
Week 2, Consolidate what you have learnt and show improvement, and hopefully reach the required level.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| monster77 wrote: |
If you think you are at the level, self assessed or mate assessed, why shouldn't you take a BASI course. You may just be wasting money but that is your choice.
Isn't that why a BASI course is run over two weeks? Week 1, learn what you need to do to achieve the pass level.
Week 2, Consolidate what you have learnt and show improvement, and hopefully reach the required level. |
I agree. In my experience it is a process of continual learning and continual assessment. I also think that Trainers will push your skiing as far as they can, including well beyond the required level for that particular course if that is what you are capable of. Although the BASI courses are expensive I think they are good value for money (assuming you have a genuine desire to teach as well as improve your personal performance). My L2 course cost £500. For this I got 10 days of first class instruction, from 9am to 4pm, plus another 90 minutes of theory work in evening sessions each day. I developed more as a skier in those 10 days than I did in the previous 10 years.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rob@rar, Agreed, 7 hours on the hill each day with top quality Training for £7 an hour. Bargain. We even learnt Tai Chi. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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monster77, you've jumbled up the quotes (you have a fair point though)
agree with rob@rar and Spyderman on the L2 course but some of the other ones seem to assume no knowledge whatsoever (eg, my own personal bugbear the mountain skills/off-piste course) - maybe BASI should explore giving byes to people who can prove they have already gained this experience. just imagine a UIAGM guide who decided he wanted to get his instructor's badge - complete waste of his/her time and money
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Arno, A Mountain Guide is not a Ski Instructor. Whilst his personal skill level is obviously very high, that doesn't necessarily equip him with the required skills to teach a 4 year old how to do a Snowplough. I agree with you though that someone who holds UIAGM should be given a bye on the Mountain Security elements within BASI.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Spyderman, They are? If you hold a UIAGM / IFMGA you will not need to do any of the off piste training.
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Spyderman, didn't express myself properly - agree a guide should have to do the technical/educational side. my point was about the mountain safety which elbrus has just explained was a non-point 
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| Johnathon Anderson wrote: |
| you can work in Switzerland or go to another country where the skill level required to pass is lower |
I may be misinterpreting what you wrote, and I speak from a position of almost complete ignorance and stand prepared to be corrected, but I do feel the need to take issue with the implication that the level required to pass is lower in Switzerland. From what I read in the syllabus here, the Eurotest AND a slalom race are required exams at each and every level of the system, for instance - the difference being that the race/speed tests are just another module and the scores are averaged out along with all the other modules to get the final mark. The other difference in Switzerland is that there are opportunities to work at every level of qualification, thereby building in the practical experience of teaching into the education/qualification system. I must say it's the first time I've ever heard anyone suggest that the Swiss underestimate the skill level required to do any given job 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I know a lot of swiss who have failed the swiss qualifications, they don't sound any easier from what I hear.
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[quote="eng_ch"]
| Johnathon Anderson wrote: |
| you can work in Switzerland or go to another country where the skill level required to pass is lower |
I may be misinterpreting what you wrote,quote]
No I don't think you are misinterpreting, I think it is prob my post that was confusing
I said (as above)
you can work in Switzerland "OR" go to another country where the skill level required to pass is lower
In Switzerland there is no legal requiremnt to hold a certain qualification before you can teach - I may totallt wrong about this it's just what I have been told - you can teach there if the ski school director says you can - of course they will look at your ability and then make an assessment on whether to give you a job - I din't say you work there if you weren't good enough.
It is interesting to note that there is also no "legal" requirement for you to hold a qualification to teach in the UK - I don't think anyone will offer you a decent job though if you're not
go to another country where the skill level required to pass is lower -
Of course with any skill (skiing, medical, Electrical, etc etc) there are part of the world where the standard required will very - some are higher than (in this case) BASI and some lower
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Wed 22-10-08 15:55; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| CEM wrote: |
| for what its worth Johnathon Anderson came in here and admitted this was not his real name, he proceeded to post trash about PK leaving BASI..... now he starts this thread...I smell FISH |
Sorry Mr CEM - Mrs CEM - Lord CEM - Miss CEM or whatever - is that your real name ?
I didn't trash BASI - I asked in a light-hearted manner what went on - some people didn't take too kindly to the thread so I deleted it. These type of sites are not really here to upset people - OK some people take offence too easily - but other "may" have a genuine reason - if this becomes apparent after you have started a thread is it not best to just stop
Sorry if that broke the rules - I was never trying to upset anyone -
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Johnathon Anderson, peopel round here know who i am, it doesn't take much digging to find out...where as yourself........
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Point taken -
But I personally think that his voice on Short Stories deserved some recognition
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
his voice on Short Stories deserved some recognition
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???
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Johnathon Anderson wrote: |
Maybe I am too old for this forum - Short Stories - it was back in the day. Ask your your dad about it (or maybe your grand-dad)  |
Well I haven't the faintest what you're on about either, and if you're close to Eurotest performance then I'm certain I'm older than you. You do seem to be reinforcing the rather unfortunate "senior instructor stereotype" - please don't be such a patronising prick next time!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Johnathon Anderson wrote: |
But I personally think that his voice on Short Stories deserved some recognition |
Hans Christian Anderson?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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GrahamN, I've actually never noticed peeps trashing BASI particularly - but I don't understand most of this thread anyway.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I will quite happily go on teaching with my current qualification since it is perfectly valid for where I teach.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
| As the people who are instructors outside of the UK tend to be born near mountains (e.g. France, Austria, Switzerland, USA) I'd say that in general they are the better skiers esp. when it comes to offpiste skiing. |
Why is it then that only France imposes a high level of skiing for their bottom level instructor? I've seen many shocking Anwarters - I'm absolutely certain they wouldn't get through today's BASI Level2. I remember a quote from Fastman alluding to the low quality of many PSIA Level1 instructors, and it's well known CSIA Level1 is hardly demanding either. If people who are instructors outside of the UK tend to be born near mountains and are better skiers they wouldn't need to have such lowly bottom rungs, would they?
At all levels the vast majority of British skiers are ever likely to reach, of all the systems in Europe I'd say that the BASI instructor is most likely to deliver the goods for a British sker. I suspect this to be the case even if they spoke a continental language at a very advanced level - I don't so can only guess at this - ie it's not so much due to knowledge or skills but attitude. Only if they were near pro level skiers ie doing serious race training do I think that coaching from a continental coach would likely be consistently better.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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If you go back into history - the CSIA Level 1 is, and never was, a full instructors qualification level. (It used to be called Apprentice Instructor). It was, and is, and "introduction" to ski teaching. As such, you are awarded an Associate Membership (not Full Membership) of the CSIA. The same goes for the BASI Level 1. It is an Associate Membership.
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The Level 1 – Apprentice instructor session is considered an introductory course to ski instruction and the CSIA discourages its members to remain at that level. In order to retain your membership you will be required to attend a Level II course or a recall session within three years.
A Level 1 – Apprentice Instructor is a CSIA non-voting member. |
http://www.snowprobc.com/file_download/5
As for equivalence and levels between CSIA and BASI - well, as we know, there is a variance and a band. Last season a candidate passed the BASI Level 1 but proceeded to fail the CSIA Level 1 the very next week (and I can tell you exactly why). No doubt there are examples of the reverse.
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| slikedges wrote: |
| Quote: |
| As the people who are instructors outside of the UK tend to be born near mountains (e.g. France, Austria, Switzerland, USA) I'd say that in general they are the better skiers esp. when it comes to offpiste skiing. |
Why is it then that only France imposes a high level of skiing for their bottom level instructor? I've seen many shocking Anwarters - I'm absolutely certain they wouldn't get through today's BASI Level2. I remember a quote from Fastman alluding to the low quality of many PSIA Level1 instructors, and it's well known CSIA Level1 is hardly demanding either. If people who are instructors outside of the UK tend to be born near mountains and are better skiers they wouldn't need to have such lowly bottom rungs, would they?
At all levels the vast majority of British skiers are ever likely to reach, of all the systems in Europe I'd say that the BASI instructor is most likely to deliver the goods for a British sker. I suspect this to be the case even if they spoke a continental language at a very advanced level - I don't so can only guess at this - ie it's not so much due to knowledge or skills but attitude. Only if they were near pro level skiers ie doing serious race training do I think that coaching from a continental coach would likely be consistently better. |
I always suspected that France put in the speed test to keep out British instructors. By the time many UK ski instructors were good enough to teach they were too old to pass the speed test. Maybe others here can comment on this. Like any other profession there are also qualified people who don't do a good job.
There's a difference between being able to teach and being able to ski at the top level. Wouldn't be surprized if people like Bode Miller couldn't pass the BASI tests. Beni Raich once caused a stir by saying he lost a race because he skied too much like a ski instructor. For some people skiing is about fun, for others it's about putting a nice set of curves on a groomed piste, getting through a set of gates in the fastest time, getting down a steep section of bumps, skiing powder in tight trees or in an open bowl. At the top end of ski instruction (race coaching, extreme offpiste) the non-UK instructors in general have the clear edge. Why someone should come on here in such a patronizing tone insinuating BASI qualifiactions are better/harder or are better respected than other european teaching qualifications beats me.
Looks like we agree that at the top level BASI doesn't have the same prestige but a BASI (or other native English speaking instructor) is in most cases the best option for the 'typical' British recreational skier.
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| veeeight wrote: |
| As for equivalence and levels between CSIA and BASI - well, as we know, there is a variance and a band. Last season a candidate passed the BASI Level 1 but proceeded to fail the CSIA Level 1 the very next week (and I can tell you exactly why). No doubt there are examples of the reverse. |
Quite. It's not only down to how good a skier you are it's also often down to how well you can do the fancy set of drills in the style that a particular instruction body is looking for.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| DB wrote: |
| I always suspected that France put in the speed test to keep out British instructors. |
I'm not sure it's just the British, as it also excludes French skiers not raised in the Mountains. Similarly you could argue that the speed test helps ensure Instructing jobs for ex racers once their racing career is over
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| DB wrote: |
| Looks like we agree that at the top level BASI doesn't have the same prestige but a BASI (or other native English speaking instructor) is in most cases the best option for the 'typical' British recreational skier. |
If you are comparing an ISTD qualification from BASI (which is the top level) with the kind of quality race coaching you see on Austrian glaciers I don't think you are comparing like with like. BASI has worked hard for a long time to demonstrate equivalence (not superiority) of its qualifications, and I think BASI's ISTD award holds its own with the top level award of any other national system. More importantly the ISIA also says that, and even the French no longer argue against it!
If you are comparing race coach awards I'd agree with you that the UK does not have the same pedigree for developing coaches, but BASI are addressing this and have imported with some modifications the Canadian coaching curriculum which is extremely well regarded AIUI.
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FAQ
