 Poster: A snowHead
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beanie1, I'm saying nought....
BASI guy in your link says.... ??
and a guy that train racers around world... and an ex-instructor trainer(again around the world) ??
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| little tiger wrote: |
| ... again he is suggesting GS skis will improve skill set ... |
I might be having a blonde moment, so can you highlight where in the BASI article Sean suggests that GS skis will improve skill set?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rob@rar,
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| I hope that the facts and arguments listed above; not least the safety implications will help you to understand the reasons for the new implementation of the ski recommendation for the 2010 season. After all if someone said to you that you will develop faster and risk less on a different pair of skis, would you not change them? |
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The Aussie forum thread that little tiger references is a doozy and a classic of its kind - looks like a race bred pro instructor/coach arguing with someone who skis for fun, although at presumably a high level that "cheater" skis are impairing their technical development.
Its pretty obvious that skiing GS skis everywhere is the route most junior coaching programmes take and obviously once people have these skills then it is natural they will turn to race room GS skis as anything else lacks the precision and feedback they are used to. I'm not sure that it means that to be a good instructor you have to be race bred (though the Eurotest is a legacy of this) or that individual adults shouldn't be capable of making their own decisions as to what equipment works best for them - presumably there's no rule yet that all instructors have to ski plug WC boots.
Would I choose to take an instructor course on a fat ski? - probably not, unless it was the offpiste training module. Do GS skis help with speed and edge grip? - Yes. Am I perfectly happy taking a fat ski as my one ski quiver on holiday? - Yes
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| little tiger wrote: |
rob@rar,
| Quote: |
| I hope that the facts and arguments listed above; not least the safety implications will help you to understand the reasons for the new implementation of the ski recommendation for the 2010 season. After all if someone said to you that you will develop faster and risk less on a different pair of skis, would you not change them? |
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I might be a bit hard of thinking today, but I can't see that is a recommendation for a GS ski. That article clearly explains Sean's thinking on why slalom skis are not suitable for BASI courses, but it says nothing about what skis should be used other than a less extreme sidecut (>17m radius for men), longer and wider (curiuosly described as thicker). That could point to a GS ski (although not if you pay much attention to the ski advice for variable snow), but it also describes other types of ski. That article does NOT make a firm recommendation for a GS ski, as far as I can see.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Sat 2-08-08 13:25; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| fatbob wrote: |
| Would I choose to take an instructor course on a fat ski? - probably not, unless it was the offpiste training module. |
The challenge is that all BASI's technical courses ski on AND off-piste. I therefore use a ski which can hep me perform to the required level in all conditions that I'll encounter (on-piste, bumps, variable off-piste snow). The BASI Mountain Safety course is obviously off-piste focused so I'll use something fatter for that. When I'm just skiing for fun or when I'm trying to work on developing my skills I might well choose a different ski. Seems to me that choosing a ski that is best suited for the purpose is a good thing to do, rather than pedantically sticking to one type regardless of what you are trying to achieve.
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rob@rar, Based on what I've skied I'd probably pick an 80-85mm for that sort of mixed conditions - maybe a Movement or a Nordica or the Head Monster. I don't think I could be a**ed worrying about what we we going to be doing the next day and changing my skis accordingly. Now for someone less fat and lazy something else would probably be the choice.
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fatbob, my Trainer mostly used a pair of Movement Sparks during my L2 course, which would fit neatly into your description of ideal ski for those courses. Unfortunately I don't have the on-piste skills to ski something like that as well as I would like, so opted for something a bit more piste-focused. The day I used my Karmas (it had snowed heavily the previous night) my on-piste performance was very poor.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| fatbob wrote: |
| Its pretty obvious that skiing GS skis everywhere is the route most junior coaching programmes take and obviously once people have these skills then it is natural they will turn to race room GS skis as anything else lacks the precision and feedback they are used to. |
GS skis for "children" under 15 are suitable for free skiing as well as racing, those for "juniors" older than this are not and they would tend to use their SL skis when not skiing gates.
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| Quote: |
little tiger wrote:
... again he is suggesting GS skis will improve skill set ...
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He has never suggested that a GS ski will improve skill set, all he wants is skis over a certain radius and we can choose what they are. As I posted else where, I sent an email asking what kind of ski we were expected to use and this was the reply
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| While it might make sense to have a race ski if one was continuing through the BASI system to train for the Speed Test, a more versatile ski (not a twin tip) would be better for the technical courses. It is intended to be flexible. Your choice. |
IMO a more versatile skis is something a bit wider than a race ski. The reason he said no to twin tips is because in my email I pointed out that most twin tips are over 17m radius 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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rjs, Sorry not au fait with the age splits but I take the point.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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freestyleandy, exactly right.
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You know it makes sense.
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veeeight, Exactly but it does seem to give you excreable taste in accompanying music 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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As a lay-skier I am once again perplexed. I appreciate that people do 1st and 2nd level instructor courses for many reasons, many of which do not include teaching as an end goal. However, once you get to the level where teaching is the end goal surely it doesn't matter (beyond race course requirements) what you ski on?
Further, as I asked before, shouldn't you be able to demonstrate to a correct level on anything?
And, shouldn't you be able to ski on anything at speed with a significantly reduced risk of injury than Joe Punter (i.e., Me)
And if not why do stiff boots and "RD" skis not come with a Gov't. health warning?
Confused of CH-1226.
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Poster: A snowHead
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veeeight, yeah - Reilly is an aussie  - and the two guys saying that lower level skiers should use GS skis to improve their skill sets are also aussie and at least 1 is a trainer (I think the other could be also but am unsure).... So the guys who have the job of teaching people to ski like that in the first place want you to learn on skinny - they both ski fats/twins/midfats/whatever when they want to.... but they also can ski a GS ski anywhere and do any sort of turn on it.... as I'm sure Reilly can ( for reference Reilly is an APSI level 3 and APSI 2 = ISIA)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| beanie1 wrote: |
By having such prescriptive rules they reinforce the image of the BASI clone being made to ski in shapes – I thought they were trying to move away from this.
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Now how many times have I heard this before????????????????????????????????????????? Some things never change.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| VolklAttivaS5 wrote: |
| easiski wrote: |
VolklAttivaS5, At the end of the day, as a working ski teacher you will only be able to ski on one pair of skis per day. You may have more than one pair, but will have to choose which pair to use each day. You will also have to expect that they will be stamped on, that you will have to stand on a beginner's skis to stop them sliding forward while getting up, that you may not be able to avoid all stones as you would free skiing since you are setting a line for others.... It seems to me that BASI is trying to make the board a little more even, but to force people to ski a longer radius ski when they may have a personal preference for a shorter one is unfair! However, I wouldn't be wanting to do bumps on Missionsn (too wide).  You should definitely start skiing on detuned race skis as soon as possible - the difference on piste (whichever you choose), will be huge. You'll never want to go back to your ladies skis! |
Agreed about only being able to ski on one pair of skis per day! I only have 2 pairs at the moment, first pair was the Volkl Attiva S5's which I'd used on piste and they were really good, they were a bit narrow for off piste so I bought some Missions for off piste mainly which are good for that. You're right about the Missions in the Bumps, they are not as easy as my Volkls to use in there I have to admit.
When you say get myself a pair of detuned race skis asap, and that I'll never want to go back to my ladies skis, do you mean that the race skis will be much stiffer torsionally compared with my Volkls? Presumably my Volkl Attiva S5's must be a softer flex than a standard Volkl ski, although the S5's are a high intermediate to advanced piste ski so say. |
I did say detuned race skis eg: my Fischer WC SCs. These skis are stiffer, more responsive and much more precise and accurate. Your present Volkls are much softer, so won't be so accurate or grippy etc. Don't go to a real WC race department ski - they are not for every day (although fun). Your skis should help you to improve, and it may be that at first you find them a bit of a handful, but you'll improve much faster than on a more forgiving ski.
FWIW I think you should ski off piste on piste skis (not all the time), but it's really good for your technical skiing.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rob@rar, nice spot!!!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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His mate obviously is also rather proud of his impressive bowel movement behind
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fatbob, that's not Deirdre then?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Stupid boy Pike
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Yoda, 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I had an email through today suggesting that 21m is still OK for the Euro Test and that the new 27m rule "only applies to the higher level FIS races like continental cups and above."
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david@mediacopy, is there a website or anything that has details of the eurotest rules and regulations, egarding skis etc.?
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You know it makes sense.
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freestyleandy, I guess there must be but I don't have the link. Not on the BASI site ?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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freestyleandy, The eurotest is run to FIS regulations, try here.
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Poster: A snowHead
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rjs, cheers for that.
david@mediacopy, thankfully it does say that the >21m radius and 185 cm / -5 cm tolerance for the speed test is staying the same....just need a nice skin tight suit now 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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FAQ
