 Poster: A snowHead
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No, it is still your fault. You have to ski taking into account that people do stupid things sometimes.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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snowball, I agree that you need to take it into account, I'm not encouraging recklessness, but I'm saying that it's not 100% your fault if someone else does a stupid thing.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
| geraint4 wrote: |
| If you crash into someone from behind, then nomatter how awkwardly they were turning: it's your fault. |
Not always. If they have stopped in a dangerous place (over the brow of a hill, on a blind corner of a cat track...) then it may not be your fault that they were too stupid to stop somewhere safe. |
"Not always. If they have stopped in a dangerous place (over the brow of a hill, on a blind corner of a cat track...)" sorry i'm not too good with forums... assuming they're moving and don't suddenly stop, it's your fault... i don't agree with it but hey 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The expense and bureaucracy of this initiative is misspent. I feel they would be better to offer speed training classes on the mountain. This would allow amateurs to ski fast but also be shown how to do it in control espeically stop.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| plectrum wrote: |
| The expense and bureaucracy of this initiative is misspent. I feel they would be better to offer speed training classes on the mountain. This would allow amateurs to ski fast but also be shown how to do it in control espeically stop. |
As I have already pointed out, the story is not true. A nice piece of investigtative journalism by the SCGB - perhaps reflecting the role James Cove has taken in looking after the news there.
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I was heading pretty fast down a wide open dead straight run from the glacier in Zermatt down to Cervinia last week with not another soul to be seen on the slopes, other than my friend but I'd already over taken him. I had slowed down though by the time we caught up with the next two people on the slope that day, they happened to have Police written on the back of their jackets but didn't seem at all interested in what we were doing.
On getting to the bottom of the run I checked the GPS and it read a top speed of 93k for that run but I suppose those two guys were probably just fans of Sting's music.
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geraint4, yes, if they are moving, it's your fault. if they are stopped, it's not a clear-cut decision.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| achilles wrote: |
| plectrum wrote: |
| The expense and bureaucracy of this initiative is misspent. I feel they would be better to offer speed training classes on the mountain. This would allow amateurs to ski fast but also be shown how to do it in control espeically stop. |
As I have already pointed out, the story is not true. A nice piece of investigtative journalism by the SCGB - perhaps reflecting the role James Cove has taken in looking after the news there. |
Maybe James Cove reads SwissInfo?
From January 7th http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/search/Result.html?siteSect=882&ty=st&sid=8598605
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geraint4,
I'm a Turk if that's any help... I was kidding about the tearing down the piste - I can't stand out of control idiots on the piste 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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well your location says cymru... i know someone called hywel who likes their drink so i'm wondering if it's the same one.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Whilst I think that speed cameras on piste is a bit daft, I do agree that slowing down on easier runs is important, speeding down these runs can intimidate inexperienced skiers/boarders and cause accidents.
I'm a more experienced and confident skier than what I was 7 years ago when I started but I never forget that I was once inexperienced and worried about falling over or having a fast skier/boarder wipe me out! I always slow down when I reach these areas and keep as safe distance as possible from the next person on the piste.
Although, I must admit, I did enjoy going as fast I could when I had a intermediate run in Sunshine Village all to myself! 
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Wear The Fox Hat, surely if you cant see round the corner or over the brow of a hill you should slow down, if you hit anyithng stationary then isnt it even more your fault thne hitting something that may randomly move.. i mean if you barrelled over a hill unable to see what was coming up and hit a piste basher........
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You know it makes sense.
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CANV CANVINGTON, but how much should you slow down? Does this apply on steeper runs, or in terrain parks?
And when does the responsibility code kick in?
"You must not stop where you obstruct a trail, or are not visible from above."
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
"You must not stop where you obstruct a trail, or are not visible from above." |
What about a scenario where you've stopped beyond a blind brow to attend to an injured skier or you've fallen yourself on some boilerplate? I'd be happier knowing there wasn't some speed merchant approaching on a dangerous trajectory.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| CANV CANVINGTON wrote: |
| Wear The Fox Hat, surely if you cant see round the corner or over the brow of a hill you should slow down, if you hit anyithng stationary then isnt it even more your fault thne hitting something that may randomly move.. i mean if you barrelled over a hill unable to see what was coming up and hit a piste basher........ |
Thumbs Up... that is what the code suggests (and common sense dictates) alright. (ie remain in control and be able to AVOID others). There is no saying some small kid has not fallen down and is laying on that slope trying to get up - or an old/fat/unfit adult or someone who is too hurt to get up.
I was skiing recently with a gentleman who spent many years racing downhill and super G on WC and has only recently retired to be a national team coach. He watched with me as a native english speaking person came barrelling down a slope straightline and got air over a blind roller, with no spotter. He then announced we were leaving the area as it was far too dangerous with that idiot on the slope. As he commented - he likes speed but would NEVER ski like that on an open slope. When said person was spotted again later we again immediately left the area he was in as he is a danger on the slopes and to be avoided at all costs.
My ex loves to jump - but his kids (who also love to jump) were taught the first rules of jumping as being -scope the landing first(especially ski it to check for rocks if you do not know the slope) and have a spotter if the landing is unsighted from take-off.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hywel, if you stop to assist, you should put crossed poles in the snow above you to warn others.
It's not just about "speed merchants", but about general slope use - a beginner's definition of speed and an expert's definition would be very different, so who is right, or is it best if everyone is forced to ski at a max of 5mph?
Notice as well that the responsibility code does not say "if you fall", but that you must not stop. So, don't choose to stop in an area where you obstruct a trail or are not visible from above. If you have fallen, you should try to get up and away from a danger area as quickly as possible.
My main point is that to say that 100% of all ski accidents are the fault of the person behind is not correct, and to automatically put the blame on them is a mistake, but popular with victim culture and the lack of responsibility for your own actions that is becoming all too common. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hywel, the other way to put it is: do you complain if snowboarders sit down over the brow of a hill? If you came over the hill (not as a speed merchant, but as an intermediate skier), and tried, in a controlled way, to avoid them, but failed, or fell over - is it entirely your fault that you fell, or hit them, or is it partly their fault for choosing to ignore the rules and stopping in a dangerous place?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
Hywel,
My main point is that to say that 100% of all ski accidents are the fault of the person behind is not correct, and to automatically put the blame on them is a mistake..( |
Totally agree, I think my point is that (like driving) your skiing should be pro-active and aware of any possible hidden dangers that may lie ahead. If I bust my knee through colliding with a skier stopped in an obscured position, it's no consolation to know that I might not be in the wrong. I'm too old (and cowardly) to go around falling and getting injured so I'm always looking out for potential collisions
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hywel, I agree, it should be pro-active. One should not assume that around the next corner all will be well, but if someone skis so defensively that they stop at the top of every brow, or have to tip toe round every corner so they can check everything on the slope ahead of them, then they have become a danger to other skiers.
The scouts motto of "be prepared" is the right one. But it's not "be prepared" then do nothing.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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RichardB, lol i love seein crap skiiers speed down banff avenue and fall when they hit a sheet of ice but i don't like it when they come close to killin me. Hywel, do you live in swansea?
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well i dont think anyone should ski round or over something if they cant stop within the distance they can see (without a spotter).. for your own safety as much as anyone elses.. there arnt many pistes where you have to come to a complete halt and peer over the edge..
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geraint4,
Are you 'avin a laff? I'm a Turk (sworn enemies of the Swansea Jacks  )
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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lol really.. where are you living atm. you sound like a turk aswell 
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i mean what part of llanelli
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Most of the relevant speed guidance is covered in the FIS rules that you see everywhere. I see the ski cameras as an aide to promoting those rules- not as an infringement on people's rights on the mountain.
FIS Ski Rules
You are responsible for your own safety and that of other skiers and snow boarders. Be aware of people around you and take necessary action to avoid skiing dangerously or causing a hazard to yourself or others.
Control your direction and speed of travel, taking account of the terrain, snow, weather and traffic conditions.
Select an appropriate path. If you are skiing behind someone it’s your responsibility to ski around them without causing any danger to them.
You can over-take from either left or right but you must leave enough distance between yourself and other skiers to allow them to manoeuvre properly.
Before starting off or pulling out you must look up and down the slope and choose an appropriate moment to execute your manoeuvre, so as not to endanger yourself or other skiers.
Avoid stopping at blind corners or narrow or enclosed places unless you have to i.e. you’re injured. In the case of an injury you must vacate the spot as soon as practicable, to avoid further danger (to yourself or others). You should always stop at the side of the piste.
You must always use the side of the piste to walk up or down, whether with or without skis on.
Pay attention to and follow the signs, markings and notices on the piste.
You are obliged by law to offer help and assistance in the event of any accident.
You are also obliged by law to give your personal details in the event of an accident, whether you caused it, witnessed it or assisted at it.
SAFE SKIING!!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Latchigo, no problem with any of that. (nor with having piste police/piste patrol/cameras being used to deter and stop people who are flouting the rules and behaving in an irresponsible manner)
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I agree with this on certain runs, particularly busy runs into the resort.
I used to make the assumption that French skiers are super experienced and even at high speed can be safe.. not so.
Coming into plan peisey (les arcs) Friday afternoon down the foret blue, there was a steady stream of super fast Lycra clad downhillers who where practicing on the special slalom run above plan peisey.
Basically everyone had to stop rigid and let them past.... seriously fast speed at least 50mph+, at least 30 of them. Quite scary.
One of the decked it just above the lift, didn't and stop for 50 yards until he fell down a ditch. Skis and poles everywhere.
Really quite scary. I am really glad no one was in the way of him.
Anyone who knows foret at les arcs will know its full of mums and kids.
That was totally reckless. They had about 3 ESF instructors with them.
tux
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You know it makes sense.
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| little tiger wrote: |
| CANV CANVINGTON wrote: |
| Wear The Fox Hat, surely if you cant see round the corner or over the brow of a hill you should slow down, if you hit anyithng stationary then isnt it even more your fault thne hitting something that may randomly move.. i mean if you barrelled over a hill unable to see what was coming up and hit a piste basher........ |
Thumbs Up... that is what the code suggests (and common sense dictates) alright. (ie remain in control and be able to AVOID others). There is no saying some small kid has not fallen down and is laying on that slope trying to get up - or an old/fat/unfit adult or someone who is too hurt to get up.
I was skiing recently with a gentleman who spent many years racing downhill and super G on WC and has only recently retired to be a national team coach. He watched with me as a native english speaking person came barrelling down a slope straightline and got air over a blind roller, with no spotter. He then announced we were leaving the area as it was far too dangerous with that idiot on the slope. As he commented - he likes speed but would NEVER ski like that on an open slope. When said person was spotted again later we again immediately left the area he was in as he is a danger on the slopes and to be avoided at all costs.
My ex loves to jump - but his kids (who also love to jump) were taught the first rules of jumping as being -scope the landing first(especially ski it to check for rocks if you do not know the slope) and have a spotter if the landing is unsighted from take-off. |
i returned 5 weeks ago from ski hols, i was hit by an austrian skier in a swiss resort. at the time of impact this guy was airbourne having skiied straight down the fall line and taken off over a blind roller - there was a sign saying langsam!
The result was that my right shoulder took the full impact and has sustained alot of damage, at the moment I do not know the outcome, if I will ever regain full use. I cannot drive for at least another 3 months, cannot work and may still require surgery.
my point is this guy, who was showing off to his girlfriend, has completely wrecked my shoulder and life - I love my sport and cannot do anything
think before you speed, I welcome this move and luck for all I wear a helmet which I swear saved my life
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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ski girl, Oh, how awful. and a sobering first post. I hope he stopped and you have proper recourse
Welcome to snowHeads!
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Poster: A snowHead
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ski girl, sorry to hear that. (and welcome to snowHeads) I think some of the earlier posters were choosing to take airbourne/racing to be the same as skiing in anything other than a slow snowplough. My point, which was missed by some, is that it's possible to ski faster than a snowplough, but still in control, and not be "barrelling" down the hill.
Hope you heal soon.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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he did stop, he did not have his insurance details on him - my insurance company are dealing with this as they know where he lives!
at the moment if i ever saw him i would inflict lots of injuries to ensure he suffers the sleepless nights in pain that i am suffering - not that i hold a grudge or anything
he was spotted the day following collision skiing hard and fast down a black by my OH
thanks for the welcome makes interesting reading - booked 2 ski hols for 2008/2009 season so hope i have recovered by then
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Really sorry to hear that ski girl. Hope you recover fully and fast. It could have happened to me a few years ago: I was the only person left on a piste in the evening and had a guy come over a brow 40 yards away at full tilt, totally out of control and crashed into me. We slid a long way down the piste - I was very lucky not to be seriously injured.
However, as was pointed out half way down this thread - the speed-police news report this thread was based on was simply wrong - so you will not get caught by a speed-gun (in Europe anyway - not sure about the US.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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ski girl, very sorry for you, nobody deserves that. The reason this guy hit you was because he was being stupid rather than going too fast, he could have gone at the speed he was going at and still avoided you.
I personally think this ski camera is a load of crap, I would imagine that the percentage of those ski crashes that are actually a result of speed are very low, the majority will be down to careless skiers rather than speeding skiers.
What I find rather amusing is imagining the amount of high speed ski chases that are going to take place after the guy with the ski gun has caught someone speeding. By the time he's checked the gun, picked up his poles, and set off after the speeding skier, the speeding skier will be long gone. This means they will have to employ more patrollers to stand lower down the slope to stop the speeding skier, and on a crowded piste how is the speeding skier going to know:
a) that he/she has been speeding
b) that he/she has been caught speeding
c) that the patrollers lower down the slopes are trying to stop him/her not one of the hundreds surrounding him/her
so lets say they employ 3 people to enforce this on one piste, at £5 per hour, for a short 17 week season this will cost £14,280. JUST FOR ONE PISTE! THEY MUST BE MAD!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Matt if the guy who hit me was travelling slower as stated on piste signs he would never have been airbourne over a blind roller, he skied straight down the fall line. he was intentionally going as fast as poss to become airbourne, he was showing off to his girlfriend , in the resort where we were there were a couple of speed/racing pistes for people who wanted to ski quick, this guy ignored 2 langsam (slow) signs.
thanks for all the good wishes really appreciate it, life is a little crap 4 me at the moment
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ski girl, sorry I didn't want to make any excuses for the guy because I think he's a complete idiot. What he did was very wrong, I just don't feel as though the speed cameras are the most effective way to prevent such accidents.
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Matt Exley, As I said just above and others have said repeatedly THERE ARE NO SPEED GUNS BEING USED TO CATCH ANYBODY. The report was WRONG (it even says so on the original site if you look for the later correction).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Personally, I think it could be a good idea in certain circumstances. I was completely knocked off my feet by a woman muling down the ski run home this year - she was behind me and I was not doing anything stupid or dangerous. I badly twisted my knee as well as knocked my confidence, if I could have got my hands round her neck............ 
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Jennyski, Autoerotic asphyxiation can be a danger on the slopes 
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FAQ
Just to wish you a speedy recovery and I hope all your dreams come through! Guys like that deserve pain 