 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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geri, 30 kph is just under 19 mph. I've clocked myself at over 45 mph on skis when I was carrying a portable GPS receiver. There will be many others here that have gone a lot faster than that.
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NickB, Now that sounds quite fast to me. When walking briskly I do 7 kmh - I must try & compare my skiing speed to get an idea.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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83kph thhrough a timing light in Montana several winters ago. It was fun, I really should have pushed harder at the start of the run though. Still not found the top speed on my Stockli's..somewhere in excess of 100kph I suspect, before they lose stability.
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Speed cameras were used for a different purpose at the "Flying kilometer" of the French resort Les Arcs. Skiers have been encouraged to break the 250km/h barrier each year.
Faster than 30 km/h is unsafe and 50 km/h is potential fatal seem fair to me.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Sat 5-01-08 13:48; edited 1 time in total
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I don't think the world has gone mad, based on the quote from the article
| Quote: |
| Last year there were more than 70,000 accidents on Swiss ski slopes, many resulting in serious injuries and deaths. |
cosing over £100 million.
Since Switzerland has less skiing resorts than France, Austria and Italy we could be talking about 300,000 to 500,000 reportable accidents every year in the Alps. Politicians like to be seen doing something about it and there is a potential saving from the possible £500 millions rescue cost.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Sat 5-01-08 14:01; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Maybe a good idea on crowded runs. Not otherwise.
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saikee,
I guess it depends on where they use them. I would imagine most those incidents occur around busy areas where people congrigate, eg skilifts, cross over points etc - in which case I guess fair point - however if they start stopping people on fast sections of runs that are clearly difficult (eg Reds / blacks) and are not busy then in my opinion its mad !
They would be better stopping people who clealry arent up to the job of skiing the runs in the first place
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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kwakazx6r,
Don't think I am with you on this one.
| Quote: |
They would be better stopping people who clealy arent up to the job of skiing the runs in the first place |
That is possibly the root cause of the problem. As it is plain clear that people have to slow down in a steep piste they are not comfortable with but can go fast in an easier and flatter piste. Thus a skier who has to ski slowly in a black may want the excietment of going fast in a blue. The lower intermediates skiing slowly there are therefore the victims of the speeding skiers.
Skiers who ski slowly seldom crash into a fast skier. They may block the route in a stupid manner but that is the nature of skiing that we have accommodate other piste users on the same slope. We rely on those who have a better skill to avoid those with less skill. To knock a slow skier down saying he/she isn't suitable to use the slope can open a can of worms because no matter how good you are there is always a faster skier who can ski better and faster than you and regard your presence on the slope as an obstruction.
There are also many types of skiers. They are people who want to enjoy the freedom of skiing to different parts of a resort. They don't want speed as safety is more important to this group because they can ski regularly. Other may just want the thrill of ski fast and get the most of once-in-a-year holiday. Some may find it only cool if just out of control and doesn't get hurt at the end. Seem to me a really good skier find his/her kick in the difficult backs and off piste. Those who can ski fast only in the busy blue or red have a lot to learn yet.
Personally I have only seen faster skiers being chased, stopped and told off in European and North American resorts. Never once I saw a slow skier being asked to leave a slope. More often than not a slow skier if getting into difficulty would receive encouragement, assisatnce and advice from the fellow piste users.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I suspect the cameras will be used to deter chancers who ruin things for others.
There is no indication that they will introduce GATSO-style recorders at fixed spots.
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I don't know if anyone read the visitor comments but there were a great many from the US saying - stupid socialism: now I'll never ski in Europe etc etc. However they already have Ski Patrol who can and do take people's lift passes away for skiing too fast. This is the first real attempt in Europe in the same direction. The difference being that the Ski Patrol do it subjectively.
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You know it makes sense.
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I think using random cameras resort wise is a bit like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. Fair enough on beginners slopes or on particularly crowded funnel slopes but resort wide seems a bit excessive.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Dr. Will, There is no indication they will be used 'resort wide'. I suspect they will be used in crowded and beginner areas.
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Poster: A snowHead
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The speed camera piste where I live is on a beginner section but to be honest it just seems to be there to see who can go teh fastest through it, never heard of anyone getting stopped.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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We toboggan and have hit 35 mph (verified by my GPS device) - but only on a wide run we know well. If we see the run is busy or we know conditions are less than optimum - we take it easy. Bit like driving - you adapt to what's going on on the roads. Common sense really.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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As said by Dr. Will, I thin this is over kill. The problem been when red/blacks open onto blues/lift ques/beginners area's.
I would have thought the simple answer would be to put some inflatable/foam barriers across the slope above the junction which causes the fast skiers to slow down for a circane the same way that racing cars are slowed down on a racetrack.
I have seen banners across the piece that say "SLOW" in many languages and I think most respect it and slow down.
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| Dwarf Vader wrote: |
| I have seen banners across the piece that say "SLOW" in many languages and I think most respect it and slow down. |
or jump them 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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stab, or slide under them when one's not looking ahead 
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| paddy's daddy wrote: |
| We toboggan and have hit 35 mph (verified by my GPS device) - but only on a wide run we know well. If we see the run is busy or we know conditions are less than optimum - we take it easy. Bit like driving - you adapt to what's going on on the roads. Common sense really. |
Having tried it once, I avoid post-dinner tobogganing. In poor light and after liberal amounts of alcohol it seems a recipe for disaster.
Tobogganing used to be a big seller for tour reps in the old days in Austria.
No danger of injuring others though. It was only the riders themselves who were at risk.
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Well this is sickening to be honest. One of the joys I get when skiing off-piste is getting my adrenaline rush from going as fast as I can control. I've not had a high-speed crash since I've been like nine, which was ten years ago, ffs!
Last time I went through a speed gun I had hit around 78km/h and that was with slow carving skiis and not pushing it 100%. I would say I usually do around 60km/h or so. I just hope they don't start implementing this in France and Austria 
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| Timmaah wrote: |
| Well this is sickening to be honest. One of the joys I get when skiing off-piste is getting my adrenaline rush from going as fast as I can control. |
In which case you won't be affected. The article refers to checks on piste not off.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I do not see the problem, if used correctly on slopes that the resort feel are dangerous at particular times of the day, due to overcrowding or a lot of beginners or children. 30kph is sufficient speed for recreational skiers, those that want to go fast should go on particular "race graded" slopes, this way the boy racer wont cause problems for others.
Bon ski and safe ski!!!!
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Not sure what a "race graded" slope is or that I have ever seen one (except very exceptionally when a slope prepared for a nations cup or world cup race was reopened to the public - which can often produce very dangerous situations and I'm sure are not what was meant).
One trouble with this proposal may be in its implementation. It will be much easier to measure speeds on otherwise empty or fairly empty slopes (when the speed is not actually dangerous) than on crowded slopes (when it is). So there will be a temptation to use it where the situation is less dangerous.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Mon 7-01-08 10:18; edited 2 times in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Using speed cameras is a bit odd - are they going to fit a speedo to everyone's skis? I think the North American style subjective mountain safety people are much better idea (and yes I've been pulled a few times by them - once slightly harshly, the other a fair cop!!). Though whilst not intending to open another can of worms, the general standard of skiing skill and responsible behaviour does seem higher in N. America, so maybe the system works better there?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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If you read the most recent readers' comments at the foot of the article it appears that the article is a piece of misinformation. I haven't checked this but apparently the insurance company suva is running a sensibilisation campaign (speed awareness) on a specially marked pistes a few days a week so that skiers can check how fast they are going and be educated as to the potential risks on a purely voluntary basis only?
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From the Tribune de Geneve today:
| Quote: |
Swiss ski resorts are looking at a range of measures – including the use of speed radar detectors – to combat concerns about safety on the slopes. Results of a survey released on Sunday showed that 51 percent of those interviewed were afraid of skiers and snow boarders racing down pistes at top speed. Manicured slopes and improved ski equipment means that skiers are able to schuss at speeds faster than ever before, raising the anxiety level among those who fear they may be hit.
Edith Muller, a spokeswoman from SUVA, the insurance company, said the number of accidents at Swiss ski hills has declined slightly but the seriousness of injuries has risen. “The reason, we find notably the technique of carving and the preparation of the slopes, which are always faster,” Muller said. Under a safety program involving SUVA, radars have been installed at the ski resort of Andermatt in the canton of Uri’s Gotthard region.
“We cannot introduce speed limits but we want to allow skiers to realize how fast they are going,” Muller said. Skiers often believe they are traveling at a slower speed than they actually are – usually 10 kilometers an hour more than they think, she said. Growing awareness of the dangers of skiing have led to an increase in the use of helmets, with an estimated 50 percent of skiers now using them at Swiss resorts.
Some have called for mandatory helmet use, while others have called for police patrols on the slopes, aptitude tests and even “licence” requirements for skiers accessing more difficult terrain. The debate follows a record Christmas season for many resorts, following the previous year’s lacklustre results caused by lack of snow. Resorts in the Vaud and Valais Alps say it’s the best start to the season in at least 10 years. |
Regulars to Avoriaz will know there's a speed camera there too - and a friend of mine surprised me (and I imagine herself) by being clocked at 63 kph.
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You know it makes sense.
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| saikee wrote: |
| Faster than 30 km/h is unsafe and 50 km/h is potential fatal seem fair to me. |
I'm prepared to wager that virtually all Snowheads average more than 30 km/h when skiing on unobstructed groomed piste and that over half of us travel at over 50 km/h regularly. It may sound fast, but on skis it is not!
Having said that, I concur that hitting a large imovable object (large tree trunk, lift pilon...) with your head is likely to be dangerous even below 30 km/h.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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David Murdoch, The originals were run last week so I believe and much of what has ended up in the UK press is wrong ( what's new there then) .. this body did a series of polls about what people wanted /needed around safety .... the distortion is what the UK gets ...
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Elizabeth B wrote: |
| Timmaah wrote: |
| Well this is sickening to be honest. One of the joys I get when skiing off-piste is getting my adrenaline rush from going as fast as I can control. |
In which case you won't be affected. The article refers to checks on piste not off. |
I have no idea why i said off-piste, I meant to say on-piste 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hahahahahaha....Swiss ski industry to be non-existent in 5 years, then! The Italians will be rubbing their hands with glee at all the extra business. Bloody Swiss. Nobody likes them anyway, worse than Belgians.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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30kmh is not very fast. I go faster than that on my bike. On the flat.
That said, 30kmh is probably too fast on a crowded resort run at the end of the day.
I suspect they'll only be using them on beginner/tight/crowded runs and you'll still be allowed to open up where conditions are appropriate.
J
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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[img] http://www.flickr.com/photos/14716552@N02/2178723292/ [/img]
30kph seems eminently sensible on and icy home run like this one above Samoens last Feb half term. There were idiots blatting through this lot knocking folk over.
On the open piste though its a nonsense. I expect it will be like road speed cams - they will appear where the danger spots are. Quite how you tell who was doing >30kpk except on an empty piste is however another matter. Will there be piste police waiting to give chase with a flasher and siren on their helmet (which of course will be setting a good example)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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After 4 days being taught to ski by my mates, I want to blast down the mountain, preferrably on a Black run marked " Bon skieurs seulement" as fast as I like with as much alcohol in my blood stream as I like. How dare the Swiss try and stop me from injuring myself or any innocent people who I mow down.
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todays blick had some old guy banging on about how locals are the worst for tearing around the pistes, probably right.
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| Latchigo wrote: |
http://travel.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/travel/article3134330.ece
Andermatt to kick off. Then St Moritz, Zermatt & Davos to follow suit. |
Not so.
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If you crash into someone from behind, then nomatter how awkwardly they were turning: it's your fault. Setting a speed limit is just rediculous... it's not gonna stop bad skiers from skiing out of control like morons.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Hywel, where are you from?? i share your ideas but i hate it when beginners rip down green/blue slopes out of control
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| geraint4 wrote: |
| If you crash into someone from behind, then nomatter how awkwardly they were turning: it's your fault. |
Not always. If they have stopped in a dangerous place (over the brow of a hill, on a blind corner of a cat track...) then it may not be your fault that they were too stupid to stop somewhere safe.
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FAQ
30kmh in a car feels quite slow - I've no idea how fast I ski - does anybody? (I know its nowhere near 30kmh 
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