 Poster: A snowHead
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how can you spend 4-5 hours drinking 4 vin chauds.. they will evaporate faster!!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Kramer, No, but they are good friends.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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AxsMan,
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I think I read that the body burns off about 1 unit per hour, so if you start boozing at 6, stay out till 2, get through 20 plus units (which is 'only' two bottles of red wine) it could be late morning or even mid afternoon before your system's clear
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I suspect that most people used to necking it at that rate will burn up the booze a bit more quickly.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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T Bar, that may depend on the amount of liver damage you have sustained by your heavy drinking.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Helen Beaumont,
True, but most boozers seem to escape serious liver damage (But often knacker their brain instead.)
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T Bar, almost all 'excessive drinkers' will develop 'fatty liver' which will disappear if the patient gives up alcohol. If drinking continues 20-30% will develop alcoholic hepatitis, and 10% cirrhosis.
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Helen Beaumont, Just for my peace of mind  what is an 'excessive' drinker?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Errrrrrrr.... most of us.
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Don't know how excessive drinker is defined but I suspect most moderatively heavy drinkers will get the alcohol through their bodies a bit quicker than the rest of us for most of their lives no figures though mainly guesswork.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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T Bar,. I think you are confusing it with alcohol tolerance, where a heavy drinker does not appear to be drunk, but will still have high levels of alcohol in the blood. This obviously means he/she would not be safe to drive a vehicle, even though they may appear to be. In normal healthy adults of similar weight, physique,sex etc, rates of metabolism will be similar (unless there is liver damage, or you have genetic factors which alter it e.g. 50% of Asian population) . I can give you a full pharmacological explanation if you wish, but it is Friday night, and it's keeping me from my glass of wine!!!  Chronic alcoholics can metabolise faster though,that's true,depending on the extent of liver damage, but we weren't talking about that, just normal drinkers.
n the average adult, the rate of metabolism is about 8.5 g of alcohol per hour (i.e. about two-thirds of a regular beer or about 30 mL of spirits an hour).
AxsMan, a definition of an excessive drinker is one who regularly exceeds the governments safe drinking guidelines, but as T-Bar points out some of us will be more prone to liver damage then others, as ther are probably other factors involved, such as genetics. So some of us may get way with exceeding the safe limits, others will suffer from deteriorating health.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Helen Beaumont wrote: |
| .... a definition of an excessive drinker is one who regularly exceeds the governments safe drinking guidelines, ..... |
[Private Frazier voice] Were all doomed, Doomed!!! [/private Frazier voice]
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What about posting under the excesses? It's all seeming like an uncontrolled downhill run ATM.
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You know it makes sense.
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Australian Alcohol Guidelines
Alcohol and your health
One drink isn't always one drink.
Understanding the Australian Alcohol Guidelines
Due to the different ways that alcohol can affect people, there is no amount of alcohol that can be said to be safe for everyone. People choosing to drink must realise that there will always be some risk to their health and social well-being. The more alcohol consumed, the higher the risk. However, there are ways to minimise the risks.
The Australian Alcohol Guidelines are designed to give people an indication of the limits of alcohol consumption that are associated with an increasing risk to health and social well-being. The goal is to provide people with some knowledge to minimise the risk of alcohol-related harms occurring. The Guidelines are based on the Australian Standard Drink measure.
The risk of harm in the Short Term and the Long Term
People can drink excessively in a single day, or over a long period of time. Therefore the Guidelines talk about the risk of harm occurring in the Short-Term, and in the Long-Term.
In the Short Term, the risk to people’s health and social well-being comes from occasional drinking episodes that are confined into a single day. Short Term harms include injuries from violence, accidents, falls, having unprotected sex, and alcohol poisoning.
In the Long Term, the risk to people’s health and social well-being is associated with regular and repeated daily drinking, defined by the total number of standard drinks per week. Long Term harms include diseases such as cancer, diabetes, and brain damage.
Levels of Risk
In both the Short and Long Terms there are three levels of risk:
Low risk levels define a level of drinking at which there is a minimal risk of harm.
Risky levels are those at which risk of harm is greatly increased.
High risk drinking levels are those at which there is high risk of serious harm, and above this the risk increases rapidly.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Australian Alcohol Guidelines
Guidelines for men
To minimise risks in the short and longer term, and to gain any longer-term benefits, the alcohol drinking guidelines for men have been set by the National Health and Medical Research Council at:
No more than 4 standard drinks a day on average;
And no more than 6 standard drinks on any one day.
One or two alcohol-free days a week.
Guidelines for women
To minimise risks in the short and longer term, and to gain any longer-term benefits, the alcohol guidelines
for women have been set by the NHMRC at:
No more than 2 standard drinks a day on average;
And no more than 4 standard drinks on any one day.
One or two alcohol-free days a week.
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Poster: A snowHead
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The Australian Standard Drink
What is a standard drink?
A standard drink is any drink containing 10 grams of alcohol . One standard drink always contains the same amount of alcohol regardless of container size or alcohol type (ie, beer, wine, or spirit).
A standard drink is a unit of measurement. In the same way one metre measures a particular distance travelled, one standard drink measures a particular amount of alcohol consumed.
What is the standard drink used for?
Instead of counting glasses or containers, drinkers count standard drinks as a way of keeping track of how much alcohol they consume. Counting standard drinks is a much more reliable measure of how much alcohol is consumed compared to counting glasses, bottles, or cans.
Counting glasses, bottles, or cans of alcohol can be misleading because they can contain varying amounts of alcohol.
The consumption limits in the Australian Alcohol Guidelines are based on the standard drink concept.
How may standard drinks in....?
The number of standard drinks in alcohol beverages is always shown on the label of the container.
Examples of how many standard drinks are in typical containers - always check the label or ask bar staff
Standard Drinks Guide (PDF 268 KB)
No label?
Bar and restaurant staff can help in identifying how many standard drinks are in glasses, jugs, and other containers that are not labelled. Restaurants and bars do not all have the same size glasses, so the number of standard drinks can vary from one licensed venue to the next.
How are standard drinks calculated?
The formula for calculating standard drinks:
Volume of container in litres
X
% alcohol by volume (ml/100ml)
X
0.789*
=
The number of standard drinks
For example one stubbie (375ml) of full strength beer (5% alcohol by volume):
0.375
X
5
X
0.789*
=
1.5
*The specific gravity of ethyl alcohol is 0.789
How to count Standard Drinks?
Counting standard drinks is simply a matter of adding numbers.
For example if a person has one nip of spirits and two average* restaurant glasses of wine, they would have consumed 4 standard drinks (1 + 1.5 + 1.5).
*An average serve of wine is usually 150ml. Depending on the venue, glass size can vary from 120 to 180ml.
Some people put a bottle cap or a coaster in their pockets to represent every drink they have. This is not as accurate as counting standard drinks — but it is better than not counting.
When counting standard drinks, people should be aware of bar staff or others topping up glasses or where the amount of alcohol is not known such as in mixed drinks, cocktails, or punch.
Why count?
The main reason people count their drinks, using standard drinks, is to ensure that the low risk levels set out in the Australian Alcohol Guidelines are not exceeded. The low risk levels define the number of standard drinks that can be drunk before the threat to a person's health and social well-being moves up into the ‘risky' or ‘high risk' category.
Guideline 1
To limit health and social risks:
Men should drink no more than 4 standard drinks a day, on average
And never more than 6 standard drinks in one day.
Women should drink no more than 2 standard drinks a day, on average
And never more than 4 standard drinks in one day.
Everyone should have 1 or 2 alcohol-free days every week.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The Australian Standard Drink
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- Bigger and better than any other country's 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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So how many Aussie blokes call it a day at 4 stubbies on say Melbourne Cup Day, Grand Final Day, Australia Day? 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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From the BMA website:
"There is no consensus on the definition of binge drinking. In the past, ‘binge drinking’ was often used to refer to an extended period of time, usually two days or more, during which a person repeatedly drank to intoxication, giving up usual activities and obligations. (1)
In common usage, binge drinking is now usually used to refer to heavy drinking over an evening or similar time span - sometimes also referred to as heavy episodic drinking. Binge drinking is often associated with drinking with the intention of becoming intoxicated and, sometimes, with drinking in large groups
Even within this general definition, there is no consensus as to what level of intake constitutes binge drinking.
Some researchers have chosen to define binge drinking as consuming over half the government’s recommended number of units for a week in one session (thus, binge drinking would be defined as drinking, in one session, 10 units for men (2) and 7 units for women).
In the past, Alcohol Concern have defined binge drinking as consuming more than five drinks on a single occasion (3) .
Now maybe I'm an alcoholic, but while I can certainly see the problems and risks associated with (1), (2) sounds like a reasonably boozy evening (1 bottle of wine each) and (3) is probably common practice for any group of lads going to the pub on a Friday night. To me this sounds like a gradually increasing moral panic, over customs and social behaviors that have remained fundamentally similar (and been accepted as 'reasonable' for centuries. I'm afraid I find it hard to accept that 5 drinks constitutes a 'binge', or that any group of lads celebrating anything, will limit themselves to less than six standard Aussie units. IMHO there is a world of difference between (1) above (something I suspect very few  's have ever done) , and (2) & (3) which I equally suspect quite a few will admit to.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Whns I was a student, and went for my annual Diabetic check up, they asked how much I drank. I said roughly 5 pints a day ie 35 - 40 a week.
They wrote down moderate drinker.
Its all in the definition.
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Err no, not even close!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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IIRC the NHMRC guidelines are set from the data they had showing health problems for various levels of drinking ....
I tried to grab a single page ofr the second bit but they had all this stuff that would not copy over so I had to get it from other pages - where it was written longer (eg the standard drinks were glasses with their size written on them in the simple version but a whole page of their own in the next).... sorry no way around that I could see
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| AxsMan wrote: |
To me this sounds like a gradually increasing moral panic, over customs and social behaviors that have remained fundamentally similar (and been accepted as 'reasonable' for centuries. |
I seriously doubt whether most previous generations could afford to drink this much - I think it's a relatively recent phenomenon in terms of the general public. I used to be able to walk around the centre of Bath after meeting friends for a drink on a Friday night - I can't now for all the yobbish behaviour by the "binge"(for want of a better word) drinkers.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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There has been a well documented increase in drinking in the Uk in recent years which is a matter of fact rather than opinion. There has also been a well documented increase in alcohol associated deaths as well. From observation I would agree that there is a definite increase in yobbish antisocial behaviour. Personally I feel that hte role of alcohol in disease and disorder is somewhat underplayed rather than being a matter of moral panic.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Viking alcohol guidelines
If you can lie on the floor without holding on, then you are not p!ssed.
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Odin, That was attributed to Dean Martin at one point (and I used to have it as my sig)
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You know it makes sense.
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AxsMan, He must have pinched it from a Viking ! 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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How many of you still think it's ok to drink a little, ensuring you stay under the limit, and then drive? I've noticed increasing numbers of people using the nominated driver system and simply not drinking at all if they're down to drive. Would these same people also not drink if they were going to ski? Or do they find it more acceptable to drink and ski because skiing is easier than driving, they're less likely to get breathalysed or they feel they have less capacity to do damage on a pair of skis than when driving a car?
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Poster: A snowHead
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slikedges, Having my 'close call' a couple of years ago when I was breathalysed after two pints and found to be under, did make me reassess my attitude to driving after alcohol. I decided it was best to just avoid mixing the two completely and always take a taxi, or get Mrs Axs to drive if I was going to drink.
Since then I have 'slipped' a couple of times and driven after a pint, but no more than that. I think driving after drinking is a different issue than skiing because, as you mention above, There are harsh penalties for breaking the rules, there is a greater risk (to others i.e. pedestrians), driving involves dealing with more complex interactions (Junctions, overtaking, lanes, traffic lights etc) and when skiing, if I've had a drink or two I can just pootle about gently without causing a problem to anyone, whereas on the roads, pootling along at 10 mph is more likely to cause an accident than avoid one.
One further point (made above also I think), When I'm skiing, I'm on holiday. This means I can relax and enjoy the time, pushing hard if I feel like it, or kicking back and having a drink. There is no pressure on me to be anywhere for a deadline or do anything in particular. IMHO moderate consumption of alcohol fits into this picture without causing any problems. Some may take their skiing a lot more seriously than this, and may be pushing to improve their speed or technique. For those people maybe alcohol will not add to their enjoyment and actually hold them back from achieving their goals. Each to his own.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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AxsMan, I raise this point as much to question the inconsistency in my own and others' behaviour, as to highlight the obvious parallels. I observe the same rules as you as far as driving goes - I don't mix the two and have been been able to stick to this except on two occasions I can remember when I had only had at the most one unit. However, though I generally drink (very) moderately and have done for years, I will certainly not uncommonly have a glass of wine or gluhwein at lunch yet continue skiing afterwards. Since starting to ski again I've started to feel just a little niggling discomfort with this for precisely the reasons of insurance, litigation, driving related studies showing cognitive impairment/slowed reflexes etc.
Time to rethink?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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slikedges,
my instructors insist I ski MUCH better after a drink....
I'd not ski over 0.05 but as they all insist I am much safer after the one drink I have stopped worring about having one...
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brian
brian
Guest
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easiski, I'm not so sure that cost was the issue for previous generations, my maternal grandfather got through a couple of bottles of whisky a week. His liver gave out in the end and one of his brothers was a serious alcoholic as well.
I think drinking was just generally more frowned upon by previous generations.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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little tiger, a lot of drivers think they drive much better after one drink too...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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However on reflection, when I'm on holiday, skiing, walking or just dogging
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I didn't know people went "dogging" in the alps! Isn't it a bit cold to drop your trousers...? 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Damn, I was hoping for a bit of unusual apres there.
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AxsMan, However, you might need to think that if you did get involved in an accident on the piste, that was (say) partly your fault - would that one drink be used to negate your insurance? It might be if you were tested. there are no rules AFAIK about this, so insurance companies can pretty much invent them as they go along, rather like the avalanche in Tignes incident.
I'll give you an example of an accident I actually saw. We (instructors on Cairngorm) had set up a GS course for training off the Fiacall. It's not a piste or an area regularly traversed and was approved by the ski patrol. As one of my colleagues skied down a holdiay skier skied out into the course, directly in his path. they crashed. His femur was broken in several places. He was about 19 at the time and just starting on the ski teaching ladder. He was never able to ski properly again. So who's fault is it? He was, technically, the uphill skier, OTOH she should never have skied into a racecourse without looking ... If that had been you and he sued for loss of career etc (in spite of what skiingfool says it is a career). Suppose he'd been paralysed. The ski patrol did eventually apportion more blame to the tourist than to him .... The point is that this is exactly the sort of thing THAT DOES HAPPEN, and where an insurance company might try to pin something on you for that one innocent vin chaud.
I suggest that everyone reads the small print of their insurance policy very carefully, and if there's anything in it about alcohol to insist on a ruling as to how many units it actaully means.
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FAQ
) further down any slippery slopes 