@davidof, just added a couple of local PDS websites with their official informations.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
swskier wrote:
DJL wrote:
Don't see why not, interactive piste map currently showing Chavanette lift open along with all the Swiss ones.
I did have a check off the app to see if it was possible. Not sure if there's barriers across the top to say no entry or something like that?
As someone that hasn't ski toured before, I would imagine it would take a couple of hours to walk up there. Is that a reasonable guess?
So you could be in Switzerland by lunch with an afternoon of lift assisted runs before heading back.
Wonder if anyone is actually bothering to do that or not.
Looks to be about 3km/400m+ an hour I would guess?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
davidof wrote:
I think you can ski in Switzerland and return without quarantine as long as you have a recent negative PCR test and don't come into contact with Covid sufferers in CH.
...which you cannot prove or know, that's unfortunately the issue with this pandemic.
In any case I believe the official line is that we are not supposed to go to leave France without a valid reason - "going skiing" is not on the list. And yes, if you have a valid reason then you need a PCR, unless you go for work as a cross border, or shopping in fact. What's forbidden is going there to do things you can't do at home, which is counterintuitive imho.
Now there wouldn't be any possible control, but I stupidly believe we're in this together - else I would have done a Cummings already to check my eyes in Zermatt.
@swskier, What's the current French regulations for leaving France, going to a non-EU country, then returning? Is there no quarantine regulations? No PCR code required within 72 hours of arrival? And are the French just letting anybody pop over the border into CH so as to access lift served skiing?
and .... PDS website ... https://en.portesdusoleil.com/destination/the-strengths/for-a-serene-winter.html
"Will there be shuttles from French stations to take us to Switzerland?
To date, no shuttle is planned between France and Switzerland.
Will it be possible to reach Switzerland by French ski lifts?
The ski lifts of the French resorts are closed until further notice as well as the ski area.
If we cannot use the French ski lifts, is it nevertheless possible to descend from Switzerland to the French sector anyway?
The ski area on the French side will be closed and will not be accessible to skiers. We are awaiting information for use of the area by skitouring."
Re-posting as the links show the current information in Morzine, PDS, and Switzerland.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
patrick! wrote:
In any case I believe the official line is that we are not supposed to go to leave France without a valid reason - "going skiing" is not on the list. And yes, if you have a valid reason then you need a PCR, unless you go for work as a cross border, or shopping in fact. What's forbidden is going there to do things you can't do at home, which is counterintuitive imho.
Now there wouldn't be any possible control, but I stupidly believe we're in this together - else I would have done a Cummings already to check my eyes in Zermatt.
Well I wouldn't do it myself but a lot of people do seem to have bunked off to CH this holiday.
@davidof, A41 very busy with CH plates in Cham/Tunnel direction this evening ...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
swskier wrote:
Had a thought, but it's possible to get the Prodains lift up to Avoriaz, if you then skinned up to the top of Chavanette, could you drop down in to Switzerland, use the lifts then get last lift up to Chavanette, and ski right back down to Prodains? (with a slight uphill skin in Avoriaz to get back up to the top of the prodains lift)
Obviously i'm not saying anyone should or shouldn't do that, with the current rules, but is that technically possible?
I believe this is exactly what my friends did yesterday, yes. Or something very similar - they toured from Morzine to Suisse and back again in the day.
Lovely dusting of snow today here.
After all it is free
After all it is free
@iopjkl,
Quote:
What's the current French regulations for leaving France, going to a non-EU country, then returning? Is there no quarantine regulations? No PCR code required within 72 hours of arrival? And are the French just letting anybody pop over the border into CH so as to access lift served skiing? Laughing
and .... PDS website ... https://en.portesdusoleil.com/destination/the-strengths/for-a-serene-winter.html
"Will there be shuttles from French stations to take us to Switzerland?
To date, no shuttle is planned between France and Switzerland.
Will it be possible to reach Switzerland by French ski lifts?
The ski lifts of the French resorts are closed until further notice as well as the ski area.
If we cannot use the French ski lifts, is it nevertheless possible to descend from Switzerland to the French sector anyway?
The ski area on the French side will be closed and will not be accessible to skiers. We are awaiting information for use of the area by skitouring."
Re-posting as the links show the current information in Morzine, PDS, and Switzerland.
looks like you are advocating skiing across international borders against highly specific (inter-)national borders and current national guidelines.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I have no idea on the rules in France, haven't paid any attention as I can't be there anyway, but looking at @skimastaaah, post, it seems against the rules, which isn't surprising.
Wouldn't be surprised if its going on though.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
patrick! wrote:
I stupidly believe we're in this together
But was there any need for us to be?
If one of your party has a duff knee and is at higher risk of injuring it, do you all stay in the chalet, avoid the slopes (you might accidentally bump into him) - and lock him in his bedroom as well, for good measure?
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@swskier, Avoriaz to the top of Chavanette is about an hour for a reasonably fit ski tourer. Yes, lots are doing it. Personally I’d rather just ski tour in France but we are all different.
The Covid situation in France is on a knife edge. We are all desperate not to go into a third lockdown. I’m not a great one for blindly following rules but I find it a bit sad that some are happy to visit from countries with more infection and (possibly) more infectious variants.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@iopjkl, you now need to explain all. Ignoring international guidelines for the mere mortal amongst us. And the local resort current details ............................. how are able to circumnavigate these .................. explain in detail.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
The knee analogy is stupid. Other people can’t catch a damaged knee and potentially develop a mutant version that will hospitalise or kill many others.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
skimastaaah wrote:
@iopjkl, you now need to explain all. Ignoring international guidelines for the mere mortal amongst us. And the local resort current details ............................. how are able to circumnavigate these .................. explain in detail.
Clearly he won't.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
skimastaaah wrote:
@iopjkl, you now need to explain all. Ignoring international guidelines for the mere mortal amongst us.
For the umpteenth time, sir: I did not ignore or break any rules. I have a legitimate reason to be here, and so I am. It is astonishing that so many SH users feel themselves better informed than the border guards who decided my journey's fate. If you would have the regulations tightened further still then I recommend a petition to your local MP, or a stern letter to a newspaper. The silent majority of readers on this thread are shaking their heads sadly at the conditions you would like to see imposed.
Quote:
And the local resort current details ............................. how are able to circumnavigate these .................. explain in detail.
Naturally, I don't recommend anyone attempt circumnavigate any rules. Adhere to them in the strictest fashion; they are there for our own good, afterall.
Do we all recall a year ago when we abided by the rules and travelled upon such permissions such as having a UK passport and fancying a holiday? Well, it's similar now except the rules are much tighter. We didn't have crowds of sore stayhomers accusing others of breaking the rules by travelling, did we?
Ohhhhh no, sir - you're only allowed to travel with a legitimate EU passport, I can't believe you probably maybe didn't even have a passport! I bet you were smuggling drugs, as well! Booooo!
Crabs in a bucket.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
holidayloverxx wrote:
skimastaaah wrote:
@iopjkl, you now need to explain all. Ignoring international guidelines for the mere mortal amongst us. And the local resort current details ............................. how are able to circumnavigate these .................. explain in detail.
Clearly he won't.
And he obviously has not with his latest post.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@iopjkl, I'll buck the trend here - if I also had legitimate reason to travel to the mountains and could do ski touring while there, I would be there like a shot, there's too much agro and judgement all over social media/ forums about rules and peoples perception/ interpretation of what other folks are doing. I hope you have a great time while you're in Morzine!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
skimastaaah wrote:
holidayloverxx wrote:
skimastaaah wrote:
@iopjkl, you now need to explain all. Ignoring international guidelines for the mere mortal amongst us. And the local resort current details ............................. how are able to circumnavigate these .................. explain in detail.
Clearly he won't.
And he obviously has not with his latest post.
Sir, I can not explain how I did something that I didn't do.
always29 wrote:
@iopjkl, I'll buck the trend here - if I also had legitimate reason to travel to the mountains and could do ski touring while there, I would be there like a shot, there's too much agro and judgement all over social media/ forums about rules and peoples perception/ interpretation of what other folks are doing. I hope you have a great time while you're in Morzine!
Having gone through Heathrow last weekend ( I did not go skiing) there was absolutely zero enforcement of any rules, so the circumnavigate part to leave the UK simply does not exist, because there is absolutely nothing to circumnavigate - there is no enforcement - there were people checking in with ski bags at T2
Now how the OP entered France directly or via CH/IT and what was the legal reason for him to do so may be of interest but - he used the words "return to france" in the first post, so either has employment there, resident permit or is French, lets be honest its being used as the pretext to go skiing and while some may feel what he has done is ethically wrong it may not be illegal from a point of the law, it may be against the spirit of the law but then again tax avoidance is legal, and I would be surprised if there were not many a Snowhead who did not partake in it which could be argued is ethically wrong as well and against the spirit of the law.
I guess you think less about tax avoidance impacting others than COVID.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
The problem is that the OP started with:
Quote:
I have the choice to return to France if I want right now and live in Morzine for a bit of this season.
So he didn't need to go, he just wanted to. While he might have legal excuse, he didn't need to travel - and we are not supposed to travel if it is not esential.
After all it is free
After all it is free
skimastaaah wrote:
@iopjkl, you are persistently evading the crux of the issue.
What exactly is your legitimate reason to go skiing in France/Switzerland? I'd quite happily use it myself if I could.
I'm not sure that's any of our business. If iopjkl says he is legitimate then I think you should believe him.
Beautiful day here in Morzine btw. LOTS of people out touring today.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
DJL wrote:
@skimastaaah, I don’t think he has actually mentioned having skied yet. Seems all hypothetical so far.
Second day on the snow today. Avoriaz was bustling, plenty of people out touring or even a bit of alpine if you can be bothered to use the busses strategically to get up and down. There are some quality blues open for that, lots more available for tourers.
skimastaaah wrote:
@iopjkl, you are persistently evading the crux of the issue.
What exactly is your legitimate reason to go skiing in France/Switzerland? I'd quite happily use it myself if I could.
I'd rather not go into exact details as that would be giving far too many personal info. I had a work reason to come - if you also have a work (or other permitted reason) then you can come as well.
zzz wrote:
Beautiful day here in Morzine btw. LOTS of people out touring today.
Gorgeous, wasn't it?
RobinS wrote:
So he didn't need to go, he just wanted to. While he might have legal excuse, he didn't need to travel - and we are not supposed to travel if it is not esential.
"Need" is quite a vague word. Did you "need" to go to the shops last time you went, could you have just waited a few more days, perhaps? How hungry would you have to get before you really need to go shopping? "Need" is a meaningless concept here, really. I was allowed to, I had a reason to, and you're damn right I wanted to. My work duties could not have been discharged if I didn't come, so I "needed" to come in order to fulfil them. But did they "need" to be done in the first place? In order to complete the task at hand, yes. Would there have been consequences had I not done the job? Yes, some. How serious? Not very, in the grand scheme of things. Was I going to talk myself out of a trip to the alps, given a reason to go? No, sir.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
iopjkl wrote:
"Need" is quite a vague word. Did you "need" to go to the shops last time you went, could you have just waited a few more days, perhaps? How hungry would you have to get before you really need to go shopping? "Need" is a meaningless concept here.
@skimastaaah, I don’t think he has actually mentioned having skied yet. Seems all hypothetical so far.
Second day on the snow today. Avoriaz was bustling, plenty of people out touring or even a bit of alpine if you can be bothered to use the busses strategically to get up and down. There are some quality blues open for that, lots more available for tourers.
skimastaaah wrote:
@iopjkl, you are persistently evading the crux of the issue.
What exactly is your legitimate reason to go skiing in France/Switzerland? I'd quite happily use it myself if I could.
I'd rather not go into exact details as that would be giving far too many personal info. I had a work reason to come - if you also have a work (or other permitted reason) then you can come as well.
zzz wrote:
Beautiful day here in Morzine btw. LOTS of people out touring today.
Gorgeous, wasn't it?
RobinS wrote:
So he didn't need to go, he just wanted to. While he might have legal excuse, he didn't need to travel - and we are not supposed to travel if it is not esential.
"Need" is quite a vague word. Did you "need" to go to the shops last time you went, could you have just waited a few more days, perhaps? How hungry would you have to get before you really need to go shopping? "Need" is a meaningless concept here, really. I was allowed to, I had a reason to, and you're damn right I wanted to. My work duties could not have been discharged if I didn't come, so I "needed" to come in order to fulfil them. But did they "need" to be done in the first place? In order to complete the task at hand, yes. Would there have been consequences had I not done the job? Yes, some. How serious? Not very, in the grand scheme of things. Was I going to talk myself out of a trip to the alps, given a reason to go? No, sir.
To be fair, I'd give my right nadger to be in Les Gets right now. The facebook photos from TSI, TaxiMorzine and UpStix are making me cry on a daily basis
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Quote:
"Need" is quite a vague word. Did you "need" to go to the shops last time you went, could you have just waited a few more days, perhaps? How hungry would you have to get before you really need to go shopping? "Need" is a meaningless concept here, really. I was allowed to, I had a reason to, and you're damn right I wanted to. My work duties could not have been discharged if I didn't come, so I "needed" to come in order to fulfil them. But did they "need" to be done in the first place? In order to complete the task at hand, yes. Would there have been consequences had I not done the job? Yes, some. How serious? Not very, in the grand scheme of things. Was I going to talk myself out of a trip to the alps, given a reason to go? No, sir.
Denialist, go infect the French, that's compelling enough.
Welcome to the thread. If you read above you'll see (in a dozen posts so far) that I had a compelling work reason to travel, as verified by the authorities of both countries concerned.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@iopjkl, I've been reading this thread with interest - I suggest it may be a good idea to let the SH folks who have asked what your reason for being there is, and maybe attach an odd photo or two?.....otherwise people will draw their own conclusions as to whether you are either there without valid reason, or having a wind up and sat in UK like the majority of readers on here.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:
I've been reading this thread with interest - I suggest it may be a good idea to let the SH folks who have asked what your reason for being there is, and maybe attach an odd photo or two?
This is like the nixmap "ski the winter for free" threads. His absolute refusal, over years, to answer the most basic and reasonable questions about how the arrangement would work, or had worked, was what got up some people's noses. Looking for something from others whilst being unwilling to give anything yourself, is not a good look on a forum. It especially gets up people's noses if you drop a few hints about what a wonderful time you're having (and from which others are excluded).
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@iopjkl, If you had a compelling reason to travel why did you originally say:
"I have the choice to return to France if I want right now and live in Morzine for a bit of this season. Do you think it's worth it, I mean it's dead, right? French lifts are closed, 6pm curfew. Are they even bashing and pistes for easy touring or is the snow all left where it falls?
This states pretty clearly that you did not have a compelling reason (other than wanting to be in the mountains), you dropped yourself in it, by actually stating it was a choice - can't blame others for criticising when you dobbed yourself in!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Markymark29 wrote:
@iopjkl, I've been reading this thread with interest - I suggest it may be a good idea to let the SH folks who have asked what your reason for being there is
Work reasons, sir. The aggressive and unfriendly replies don't induce me to reveal details about my personal life and the nature of my work, you'll understand? I would think some here are the sort who might alert the local Gendarmes to look out for the Englishman doing _ _ _ _ _ "because he done gone and broke me bloodeh rules, it ain't fair!!!"
Besides, what help is it - are some here hoping to land a similar role and also then have reason to make the trip? If so, the correct friendly approach would easily get me talking. Not just blustering demands that I prove myself to a forum of anonymous former skiers.
Quote:
, and maybe attach an odd photo or two?
What would be convincing?
Quote:
.....otherwise people will draw their own conclusions
They already have, sir. Despite my journey being approved by agents of both governments, the good members of SH have determined that it was not, in fact, permitted.
On that note, I would be curious if anyone could suggest by what illicit strategy I crossed the borders? Perhaps I have one of those new hover cars.
pam w wrote:
This is like the nixmap "ski the winter for free" threads. His absolute refusal, over years, to answer the most basic and reasonable questions about how the arrangement would work, or had worked, was what got up some people's noses. Looking for something from others whilst being unwilling to give anything yourself, is not a good look on a forum.
What am I looking for from you, sir?
Quote:
It especially gets up people's noses if you drop a few hints about what a wonderful time you're having (and from which others are excluded).
This is the crux of the matter. If you guys can't ski, then you'll be damned if anyone else can. In normal years, skiing excludes the vast majority of people on a financial basis - you can afford such trips while the other family can't. This year, it's more about brains and balls. Either way, not everyone can manage it.
But there a hell of a lot of people out here and I see a dozen UK number plates every time I pop into town.
If you wanted to come, you probably could.
RobinS wrote:
@iopjkl, If you had a compelling reason to travel why did you originally say:
"I have the choice to return to France if I want right now and live in Morzine for a bit of this season. Do you think it's worth it, I mean it's dead, right? French lifts are closed, 6pm curfew. Are they even bashing and pistes for easy touring or is the snow all left where it falls?
This states pretty clearly that you did not have a compelling reason (other than wanting to be in the mountains), you dropped yourself in it, by actually stating it was a choice - can't blame others for criticising when you dobbed yourself in!
As we discussed earlier, everything is a choice. What does it mean to NEED, absolutely, to do something. There is no such thing. This is a very basic idea, the idea of "needing" to do something is meaningless without further qualification. One very simple way of making the question less subjective is leaving it to the discretion of the nations' border control; receiving approval in my case. It may be in future that a vote by SH users will become the preferred means of deciding travellers' fates.
I had a real, live, actual, physical offer of a job to do that led me to Morzine. If I turned it down, what would have been the consequences? Well - the work wouldn't get done, money would have been different, etc. The same as any of you with your jobs, I imagine.
Do you guys not understand this notion? Nothing is an absolute compulsive universal NEED. Even if someone has a gun to your head, you can always choose the bullet instead. Everything is a choice, and I sure made the right one here. The bitter and resentful responses of most betray that in your heart you know that by staying home you have made the wrong one.
Now I'm off to catch the bus to Avoriaz, good day.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Wow. So now we know you a bit better. If you were to roam more widely through the forum you would see that there are quite a few posters who live in the Alps and who have been entertaining us with stories - and some stunning photos - of their surroundings and their outings. They have not had the resentful and hostile responses which you perceive as being directed at you. Like the aforementioned nixmap you believe we are just embittered observers, jealous of your priveleged lifestyle and ability to grasp opportunities.
Quote:
are some here hoping to land a similar role and also then have reason to make the trip? If so, the correct friendly approach would easily get me talking.
Is it now too late for us to discover the passport to your world of "brains and balls"?
I had a real, live, actual, physical offer of a job to do that led me to Morzine
is subtly different to your original post of
Quote:
I have the choice to return to France if I want right now and live in Morzine for a bit of this season.
In my view there is a difference between a job offer in Morzine and how you originally posted it as a chance to return to France and live in Morzine.
The former says that the job has to be done in Morzine and is a job that the employer wants you to do despite the restrictions in place. What you originally posted could be read as I can go and work in France and that could be Morzine if I wanted to. The fact that you have only just clarified this point now seems unfortunate.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@iopjkl,
Quote:
The aggressive and unfriendly replies
.... sadly this thread has entered the realm of a Shakesperean tragi-comedy. And you as a leading character twisting and turning words, methinks thou dost protest too much, and this very much the making of thyself.
I had a real, live, actual, physical offer of a job to do that led me to Morzine
is subtly different to your original post of
Quote:
I have the choice to return to France if I want right now and live in Morzine for a bit of this season.
In my view there is a difference between a job offer in Morzine and how you originally posted it as a chance to return to France and live in Morzine.
The former says that the job has to be done in Morzine and is a job that the employer wants you to do despite the restrictions in place. What you originally posted could be read as I can go and work in France and that could be Morzine if I wanted to. The fact that you have only just clarified this point now seems unfortunate.
I can only apologise for having confused and distressed so many in this thread by initially referring to the non-compulsory nature of the trip. I thought it would be rather vulgar to lament that I must make the trip. That my life depended on it.
I think it's quite easy to reconcile these two concepts, though:
1) having a job opportunity
2) that job opportunity being non-compulsory
I could have, say, stayed at home and dug deeper into my overdraft.
The job was tied to Morzine specifically, not France en general. Turns out to be a pretty good spot, though.
pam w wrote:
there are quite a few posters who live in the Alps and who have been entertaining us with stories - and some stunning photos - of their surroundings and their outings. They have not had the resentful and hostile responses which you perceive as being directed at you. Like the aforementioned nixmap you believe we are just embittered observers, jealous of your priveleged lifestyle and ability to grasp opportunities.
Sometimes things are not interpreted accurately over the internet, forgive me if I was a bit wide of the mark. I assure you, no offence has been taken.
Quote:
Is it now too late for us to discover the passport to your world of "brains and balls"?
The first step is to decide, if you were to be permitted (as in, allowed by the travel operators and border control themselves) to travel, would you take it? Or are there moral, practical or other barriers to you doing so, even if you had permission? There may only be one or two people here who could say Yes to that, really?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I'm now more confused than ever. If it was so straightforward a decision to make why did it require "brains and balls". Sounds like a no-brainer and not demandingly ballsy either.
After all it is free
After all it is free
pam w wrote:
Sounds like a no-brainer and not demandingly ballsy either.
See you here soon, then, I hope!
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Ballsy is being in Morzine at the moment -I hear it is PACKED full of lovely Parisian escapees and their associates charms/ germs.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Big assumption there, @iopjkl. I am content where I am, thanks.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
