 Poster: A snowHead
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
It's time to ban the activity under European law, and it would be great for skiers to 'own up' and initiate the campaign.
I'm thinking of writing to some Members of the European Parliament on this. Would anyone care to join me? |
If you're going to go to the trouble, why don't you lobby for something more important? Or is the banning of heli-skiing the most important global issue for you right now? I'll bet the Euro Parliament will put this right at the top of their agenda.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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bar shaker, yeah, quite. Plus Wandsworth let us put everything in the one plastic bag - tins, bottles, paper, the lot - and I am very dubious that it actually gets meaningfully sorted.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| johnnyh wrote: |
Small differences do have an impact if enacted on a global scale. I think I'm done with this thread, now.
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When every man and his dog goes heli-skiing every weekend, then you might have a good point. You've made your point that heli-skiing is a step too far for you personally. I doubt anyone here would have a problem with that. What people do have a problem with is your holier than thou attitude and presumptions about other people's lifestyles that you know feck all about.
Here's something for you to think about. If everyone chose to live exactly the same lifestyle as yours (or mine for that matter), the World would not be a better place for it. But I suspect you are far enough up your own anus to believe it would be.
Have a nice ski holiday and try not to feel too guilty about the waste of natural resources. Have fun in your 4x4 too and don't feel guilty about that little indulgence either.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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rayscoops,
You said
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it is not heli trips in isolation that is the issue
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but unfortunately that is what DG is saying and that is why we are all questioning him. He wants this one activity banned.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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DG said
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It's time to ban the activity under European law, and it would be great for skiers to 'own up' and initiate the campaign.
I'm thinking of writing to some Members of the European Parliament on this. Would anyone care to join me?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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HH, well it is a start (I seem to remember one small voice on a bus standing up against segregation in the US making a big diffrerence in the end) and maybe we, as responsible human beings, will take the lead across all aspects of our life, except of course hel-skiing because that is ok and we want to indulge ourselves. I agree with DG that it is such an uneceesary extravagance with respect to skiing that maybe banning it would not be such a bad thing really. It would not be missed and it would have some positives
Edit - threads drift and I have added an alternative slant to the debate, that heli skiing is just one activity and perhaps should be viewed as a generic activity along side such others that likewise seem to be a pointless way of going about our lives when there are alternative and less damaging ways of getting to the shops or getting up a mountain
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Wed 4-02-09 12:40; edited 1 time in total
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| rayscoops wrote: |
Vipa, but the point I was making is that heli sking is just one piece of an overall jigsaw, and I agree that one trip is just a drop in the ocean, but if you add the principle of a heli trip to all other such similar 'trips' such as driving to shops rather than a 5 minute walk as one example, then it may make a difference. It is the cumulative of the 'it is only one heli/shop/jetski etc’ trip that is the key and not each trip in isolation, especially when there are viable alternatives to reaching good powder, or getting to the shop, or enjoying water sports etc.
In other threads many have argued that the current credit crunch has been fuelled in part by consumers spending incrementally on their credit cards and the cumulative effect is to bring down the banking sector,; an individual purchase on a ski jacket did not do this in the same way an individual heli trip will not cause global warming (if it even exists), so it is not heli trips in isolation that is the issue, it is the sentiment that a heli-trips is acceptable, and for heli-trip read any other such non ski related extravagance whereby alternative means of enjoyment is available that does not involve an exaggerated impact on the environment or natural resources. |
Can't argue with that Ray.... good logic.... Have you started packing your bags ready for Valdez next year? 
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Vipa, I would love to try heli boarding and may do so one day, but i hope that when and if I get the chance that I will put my desire to one side and make my own little stance ....... but some how I doubt it 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Helicopters are too slow. A Harrier Jump Jet would be a better option to get to the top of a mountain.
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| rayscoops wrote: |
HH, well it is a start (I seem to remember one small voice on a bus standing up against segregation in the US making a big diffrerence in the end) and maybe we, as responsible human beings, will take the lead across all aspects of our life, except of course hel-skiing because that is ok and we want to indulge ourselves. I agree with DG that it is such an uneceesary extravagance with respect to skiing that maybe banning it would not be such a bad thing really. It would not be missed and it would have some positives
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Firstly heli-skiing is not of any real concern to the general public. At most it's a local issue for local people to address. Not quite the same as an issue like ratial segregation! So let's not get too carried away.
Secondly, you seem to be presuming that "pro-heli skiers" (for want of a better phrase) do actually indulge in heli-skiing themselves. I don't as it happens and have no intention of heli-skiing. But I don't see that it's any of my business to go banning it either. Why don't you leave it to local communities to decide for themselves if heli-skiing is acceptable?
Let's presume for a moment you are a British holiday skier from Wigan. Having read this thread you decide heli-skiing is unnecessary and maybe it should be banned. What sort of a twunt are you going to look when you write a letter of complaint to the European Parliament?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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uktrailmonster, I was simply making the point that one small act can turn in to some thing bigger - in reference to those that had cited heli-sking as having little impact on the environment etc., - the act of banning it may have other spin-offs and get us thinking about other issues. I have not presumed anything either with respect to who heli skis or who does not heli ski.
I would have thought a holiday skier from Wigan would look just fine writing such a letter of complaint 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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rayscoops,
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I agree with DG that it is such an uneceesary extravagance with respect to skiing that maybe banning it would not be such a bad thing really. It would not be missed and it would have some positives
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Vipa, I would love to try heli boarding and may do so one day, but i hope that when and if I get the chance that I will put my desire to one side and make my own little stance ....... but some how I doubt it
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Aha, so you just want the temptation taking from you!
You say Heli-skiing would not be missed, maybe not by you or DG or me (cause I wouldn't do it in a million years) but there are some on here that would miss it, even if it was just a once in a lifetime act.
My problem with DG and Jh's argument is that it's easy for them to pick on heli-skiing as damaging to the environment and to want it banned because it would have no negative impact on them but they would feel even more smug in their own little bubbles. Now then, ask them to give up their 4X4's and that's another issue. Very Hypocritical.
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HH, I suppose in a way yes, but lets start with a small village in the alps, then put one poma lift in it, then build hotel, then put another poma in it, the build ten hotels, then put in two chair lifts in to what is now a resort .... and eventually we get to 'lets use helicoptors to get to places where the lifts will not take us' situation ...... and ok we can now fly there so lets build a little bit of accommaodation, lets put in a poma so we can get back up the hill, and lets put in a heli pad, and lets build a hotel, and lets put in another poma lift.......
where does it all end? maybe banning heli-trips to ski the powder is a good way of simply drawing a line under it all !
edit DG does not have a car - I hit him with that one myself on another issue
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You know it makes sense.
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| HH wrote: |
My problem with DG and Jh's argument is that it's easy for them to pick on heli-skiing as damaging to the environment and to want it banned because it would have no negative impact on them but they would feel even more smug in their own little bubbles. Now then, ask them to give up their 4X4's and that's another issue. Very Hypocritical. |
What's a 4x4 bubble? Is that an off-road bubble car?
I don't have a 4x4 bubble or an 8x4 plasterboard. We are a 4 bike family.
What's HH short for - Harry Hill?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| where does it all end? |
It's constrained by the total amount of real wealth in society and the competing returns offered by other uses of capital. I don't imagine that there will be huge, or perhaps any, growth in snow sports in the next few years.
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Poster: A snowHead
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rayscoops,
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heli sking is just one piece of an overall jigsaw, and I agree that one trip is just a drop in the ocean, but if you add the principle of a heli trip to all other such similar 'trips' such as driving to shops rather than a 5 minute walk as one example, then it may make a difference. It is the cumulative of the 'it is only one heli/shop/jetski etc’ trip that is the key and not each trip in isolation, especially when there are viable alternatives to reaching good powder, or getting to the shop, or enjoying water sports etc.
In other threads many have argued that the current credit crunch has been fuelled in part by consumers spending incrementally on their credit cards and the cumulative effect is to bring down the banking sector,; an individual purchase on a ski jacket did not do this in the same way an individual heli trip will not cause global warming (if it even exists), so it is not heli trips in isolation that is the issue, it is the sentiment that a heli-trips is acceptable, and for heli-trip read any other such non ski related extravagance whereby alternative means of enjoyment is available that does not involve an exaggerated impact on the environment or natural resources.
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Good points, well argued. And at least you're not saying you're some kind of eco-saint yourself. Hats off.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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edit DG does not have a car - I hit him with that one myself on another issue
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No but I believe Jh does have a 4X4?
David Goldsmith,
Welcome back, been very quiet haven't you anyone would think your argument had run out of steam.
Harry Hill...could be. Don't tell me you leave your eco friendly computer long enough to watch your eco friendly telly.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| rayscoops wrote: |
I have not presumed anything either with respect to who heli skis or who does not heli ski.
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| rayscoops wrote: |
except of course hel-skiing because that is ok and we want to indulge ourselves
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So was this just for a bit of effect then? There are plenty of people who do not ever intend to go heli-skiing who don't wish to ban it. Probably 99.9999999999% of the human race. It seems to me a ridiculous thing to be campaigning against unless it affects your local community. I realise you're just commenting on a ski forum, but DG is talking about writing a letter to the European Parliament. What a tool!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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What I do not understand is how a 4x4 is now taken up as the problem. When was the last time you checked a 2.2l SUV CO2 emission levels and compared them with a 2.2l saloon or any other type of a car. A modern SUV is more environmentally friendly than almost any car that is 10-12 years old, irrespective of the size. The same environmental drive is improving airplanes and helicopters too, but more slowly as aviation generally is a small part of the global CO2 emission and it has more of a token impact.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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uktrailmonster, DG is no doubt barking mad 
laundryman, 100 years ago who would have thought that 'the total amount of real wealth in society and the competing returns offered by other uses of capital' would allow for all the cable cars and 5 mile tunnels through the mountains to satisfy the demand for skiing higher and more remote places, and who knows what might happen in the next 50 years?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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rayscoops, the answer to both your questions is "nobody".
The long term future (at any point) is so uncertain that it's pointless worrying about it.
However, constraints, such as the one I mentioned, will always apply to any activity.
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| rayscoops wrote: |
| uktrailmonster, I was simply making the point that one small act can turn in to some thing bigger |
What would be next on your list of things to curtail or ban altogether?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
Last night, viewers of the new BBC snowshow High Altitude were treated to more 'high attitude' from its presenters - Graham Bell and Ed Leigh - to nipping up high peaks in choppers in order to ski down them. They didn't actually argue the case for this decadent concept in ski lifts - they just did it for a bit of sexy TV. Zermatt and The Remarkables (New Zealand) were the chosen locations, presumably because there were handy chopper pads nearby.
High Altitude - a pale imitation of Top Gear and its own gratuitous gas-guzzling (at least Top Gear benefits from high wit and a trio of bright personalities) - seems to think that air pollution ain't an issue, despite the overwhelming evidence that it is destroying our sport, melting our glaciers and threatening the lives of millions across the globe. Oh no - we should just carry on glorifying the most expensive 'aspiration' for gold-card skiers.
What a waste of air time, money and talent.
These dinosaurs should be sacked and replaced with ski presenters who actually convey some soul, personality and spirit about what skiing is, where it came from, and what its future might promise. There's nothing unchallenging about skinning up a 4000m peak.
There's nothing boring about skiing that doesn't involve helicopters. |
Sorry I just had to read this little rant again. Yes 9 pages later it still reads like a Mary Whitehouse complaint. Well I thought HA was a great show this week, well done the BBC. Who cares what DG thought of it?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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David Goldsmith,
You are a hypocrite - of the first order. Why?
Presumably you have an interest in skiing. Presumably you actually GO skiing. And yet you have no stated issue with the thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of powerful motors driving ski lifts throughout the world. A rough order of magnitude calculation (by me) suggests power station outputs of about a Gigawatt are required to drive the ski lift system throughout the world. You don't appear to have raised this as an issue re. global warming. Why?
So two choppers filming pale in comparison.
Of course your post might just be a stupid wind-up for others on this Forum. Well, it that case, it worked. You need to get out more often into the real world and show some humility.
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You know it makes sense.
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| rayscoops wrote: |
I just feel it is a good time to place a restriction on it before it might get out of control.
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Fair enough as a personal view, but I doubt that's a strong enough argument for the banning or restricting of heli-skiing. What right do you think you have to place such restrictions? Do you live in an area affected by heli-skiing? Does heli-skiing have any negative impact on your life? Is it honestly any of your business? I'm not saying you can't have a view on this, I'm just questioning your right to demand restricting the sport.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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And of course there's the local economy of an area to consider if you ban heli-trips. How many jobs are lost? How much revenue for that area is lost immediately and in the long run? How is this offset against the amount of environment you save as a result?
I can't image that banning several heli operations will counteract what's happening elsewhere in the world with the ever-expanding industrial areas that are exploding in China, India and elsewhere in Asia. And then there's the US...
Mankind is so pompous to think that we deserve a place on this planet just because we are effectively the dominant species. The ice age doesn't give a flying  who or what is inhabiting the Earth – it will come and change the world irrespective of whether or not we want to preserve the earth for our kids.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Specialman wrote: |
And of course there's the local economy of an area to consider if you ban heli-trips. How many jobs are lost? How much revenue for that area is lost immediately and in the long run? How is this offset against the amount of environment you save as a result?
I can't image that banning several heli operations will counteract what's happening elsewhere in the world with the ever-expanding industrial areas that are exploding in China, India and elsewhere in Asia. And then there's the US...
Mankind is so pompous to think that we deserve a place on this planet just because we are effectively the dominant species. The ice age doesn't give a flying who or what is inhabiting the Earth – it will come and change the world irrespective of whether or not we want to preserve the earth for our kids. |
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Thats great....can get back to heli-skiing..albeit on a small scale..and I'll off-set a few trips by using the car a bit less..DEAL..!!!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Craghopper wrote: |
David Goldsmith,
You are a hypocrite - of the first order. Why?
Presumably you have an interest in skiing. Presumably you actually GO skiing. And yet you have no stated issue with the thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of powerful motors driving ski lifts throughout the world. |
That's a bit unfair, the last time Mr Goldfish went skiing there weren't any lifts. And I know he does his bit for the environment as well, he's been running on hot air for sometime now.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Craghopper wrote: |
David Goldsmith,
You are a hypocrite - of the first order. Why?
Presumably you have an interest in skiing. Presumably you actually GO skiing. And yet you have no stated issue with the thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of powerful motors driving ski lifts throughout the world. A rough order of magnitude calculation (by me) suggests power station outputs of about a Gigawatt are required to drive the ski lift system throughout the world. You don't appear to have raised this as an issue re. global warming. Why?
So two choppers filming pale in comparison.
Of course your post might just be a stupid wind-up for others on this Forum. Well, it that case, it worked. You need to get out more often into the real world and show some humility. |
Believe it ot not, he has probably not been skiing at all for about five years now.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| rayscoops wrote: |
| I would ban or limit jet skis though |
So nothing which will have any significant impact on carbon emissions. Still seems to be tokenism to me...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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FAQ
