 Poster: A snowHead
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I think a lot of the broad brushed measurements like waist size or BMI dont mean a whole lot due to differing body shapes/age but body fat % for your age gives me a pretty good indicator of how "out of shape" i am. I have always struggled with weight and at 46 when i get my body fat in the Green zone I am happy and <20% i am delighted. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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so how do you calculate body fat (she said, having eaten a ton of peanuts watching the Olympic opening ceremony...)?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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pam w, i have one of those fancy weighing scales but you can estimate it pretty accurately from age, height waist etc. or using a calipers. there are links earlier in this thread....
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skimottaret, I looked at a thing using calipers.... how does a scales that you stand on replicate all that?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Body fat is a notoriously unreliable measure.
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Kramer, you probably right in that fat % is hard to measure accurately but at the end of the day what type of measurement do you use to define if a specific persons is obese, about right or overweight? I am no expert but fat % seems to me to be a more sensible universal target.
what measurement would you advocate? BMI, waist size or something else?
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skimottaret, waist to hip ratio has the best predictive value, and is considered the best current measure of intrabdominal obesity.
Body fat percentage either by calipers or by impedence is very unreliable, with huge variation in measurements.
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Kramer, thanks, makes sense. do you have any links to charts or details on how to measure correctly and what is good or poor ratio is
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Body fat percentage either by calipers or by impedence is very unreliable, with huge variation in measurements.
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sounds about right. I guess we're all trying to blind ourselves with science when in reality all we have to do is stand naked in front of a mirror 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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skimottaret, I'm afraid that I don't although measures of what's a good ratio is pretty easy to find.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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VolklAttivaS5, Once the wrist is beginning to knot you should be able to drive. It's pretty easy to drive one armed with swift stick changes.
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You know it makes sense.
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Oh.. easy if it's your right wrist that is broken.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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VolklAttivaS5, When my bro was in Oz he hired a car and witnessed the following which sums up succinctly the situation outlined above. A Brit couple had booked a driver to take them into the outback. They were sharing a car with an Aussie couple. The driver appeared and lo and behold.. he only had one arm. You could see the Brit couple looking worried and getting edgy but they wouldn't say anything. Then the Oz couple walked in. "Jeez mate... you ok to drive with one f**kin arm?" the bloke asked. The one armed chap immediately replied "Yeah, no worries... I'm used to it."
They all headed out happy.
Nuff said.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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VolklAttivaS5, Just hold the wheel with your knees and change on the straights. Hat's off though if you don't feel safe doing that... half the damn accidents seem to be caused by people overestimating their abilities. If in doubt rein it in.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Scarpa, good story about the one armed bloke. It is amazing how people adapt within a very short period of time.
Hmmm re the driving. Shame I still haven't got my automatic company car and bought a manual car as went self employed last year. Yeah I'm sure I could do it like and am confident of me being able to do it, but thing is, if I did crash the car guess who would get the blame and I don't think the insurance covers you if you have a broken arm/wrist/leg and you have an accident driving. Like I say, imagine if you ended up killing someone or you knocked someone's dog down or something just for the sake of nipping down the gym. I would never forgive myself so I'll leave well alone. 6 weeks will whizz by anyway.
I'll just have to cag a lift here and there. Wish I could ride a bike but can't use the back brake or hold the handlebars with my left hand! What a bummer this is, still that's what can happen when you're a snowsports enthusiast. No worse than rugby injuries or athletics etc though. In a few weeks once the pain of moving my fingers and thumb has gone then I might be able to ride my bike then and gingerly use the front brake only. Of course then I've got the problem of what happens to this arm and the other one if I come off me bike! I don't think I'll risk it but we'll see.
Saw some assorted blokes in A&E on Thursday night with some injuries caused by them fighting, including a old chap in his 70's who had got tanked up and a more than a bit rowdy and got himself into a scrap. Fighting at that age even! I was surprised.
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VolklAttivaS5, Lordy... some people never seem to learn huh?
Permanent disabilities vs temp... yup... it's a different kettle of fish r.e. insurance companies... nice one on you thinking of the bigger picture.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I've always prefered talking my way out of things. I once sold a few tickets to a do that I had decided not to go to... which then closed it's doors early. A couple of the guys saw me later in a pub and asked for their money back... with a glass held to my throat. After a brief chat they then apologised and bought me a drink... RESULT 
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Scarpa, flaming hell! Sounds like you had no option but to talk yourself out of that one. Could have turned very nasty indeed.
'Course when my dad was in his twenties and thirties it was the 60's and 70's so it was a very different time then and people mostly used their fists in occasional fights rather than knives/glasses/other nasty things that people use as weapons instead these days at a moment's notice it seems unfortunately.
Luckily I haven't been in any awkward positions like the one you described so far anyway. I think men seem to get trouble like that far more often that women seem to. Saying that I did get a nutter in at work one day who was alright with me but wanted to get my (male) colleague in to the room we were in so he could "punch my colleague's lights out" (he felt he had been wronged by my colleague you see) and I managed to charm/talk him round to avoid any violence. He calmed down quite quickly but it was very frightening for me, although I don't think it must have showed. Got him laughing in the end. That worked better than had I called the police probably because if he'd heard them coming all hell would have broken loose I suspect. Was I glad when he left the building and all was fine! I burst into tears from the relief!
Ah best go back to talking fitness now, I've hijacked the thread a bit here with my broken wrist and fighting tales.
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Why do we have to "measure" some "size" as a gauge of fitness? Why not measure "fitness" itself???
If you can't walk up a few flight of stairs without being out of breath, you're not "fit enough" (to live up there)!
And if you're talking about skiing, you need to be able to get up after falling down, and ski for a full day, and more than a couple days...
If you're getting colds and flu all winter long, you're not even healthy, whatever your waist size maybe...
You can starv yourself into the "green zone". But you probably still can't get up those stairs, never mind hiking for turns on skis. After all, some abitary number in size had much to do with fitness!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| abc wrote: |
You can starv yourself into the "green zone". But you probably still can't get up those stairs.... |
Good point - I have a friend who has lost a stone by semi-starving, putting her securely into the healthy BMI category. She still eats rubbish, just in really small amounts - she loathes fruit/veg. She has the hourglass figure to die for which gives her a very "fit" WH ratio. However she goes everywhere she can by car, walks at a snail pace and gets out of breath climbing a modest flight of stairs such as in a shop - she always takes the lift  . I suggested a bike ride with her and her kids while they're off school but the idea filled her with horror unless we could keep it very reasonable - "say a mile or so - perhaps down to the waterside cafe for a break halfway and then back?"
So who is fitter? Her or me? On the figures she is - by far. But it's me, with my unhealthy BMI and WH ratio that can walk miles, climb 2-3 flights of stairs at reasonable speed without getting breathless at all, go for bike rides of 10-20 miles........?
...... and what of those who smoke to kill their appetite, and as a result have their "numbers" in the right zones - are they fitter than me too?
I suppose one needs to more closely define "fitness" as a combination of the body's composition and its ability to cope with exercise.
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| Quote: |
I've got a friend coming round to help me get a load of shopping from the supermarket next week
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Do Tesco or Ocado deliver to your area? You only need one finger to order £200 of groceries on the internet.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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VolklAttivaS5, sorry to hear of your injury. At least it wasn't in the ski season. On riding the bike apparently as long as the surface isn't slippery or rough all you need is the front brake http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html. I should add that I've not had a working bike since I've read that so I haven't tried it.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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peura, thanks for the link. I'm used to using the front brake softly on a motorbike (where too much front brake could have heinous consequences more so than a push bike really!) so I might be alright there. Thing is I can't grip the handlebars with my left hand yet. I've not ridden by bike for ages so might be a bit iffy and am a bit afraid of falling off and doing even more damage and to the other side to make things worse!
I'll leave it for a bit until I've seen the doctors tomorrow and found out what physically I can and can't do in a week or two.
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You know it makes sense.
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| abc wrote: |
| Why do we have to "measure" some "size" as a gauge of fitness? Why not measure "fitness" itself??? |
| abc wrote: |
| Kramer wrote: |
There are many ways that you could measure fitness -
Time to run a mile, number of pressups in a minute, number of sit ups in a minute and seated reach.
Blood pressure, resting pulse, waist to hip ratio.
VO2max etc.
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Some people run a mile fast, without exercise!  And if you don't weight a lot to begin with, and lift a lot of boxes all day, your press-up is going to be impressive too. But that's not a true measuer of "fitness".
Same with blood pressure and resting pulse. A lot of it are heriditary.
Or perhaps some people don't need to exercise much to stay "fit"?   |
So you don't like physiological measurements, and you don't want to measure fitness as strength, flexibility, or speed, so how exactly do you want to measure fitness?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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maggi, it depends on what you want to know about your 'fitness' for.
It seems to me, that measuring weight is a female thing as much as a male thing.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Cycling is my main exercise. it is one of the best ways to get fit as low impact. It also builds the upper body as well and you can do a few push ups whilst riding. Try using your bike for every journey you do under 3miles rather than getting in the car. All those times that you nip to the shops will add up and you wont even notice it (except reduced petrol costs), it's not like a training run, relax, enjoy it and go slow.
I would suggest 3 proper rides a week. you are doing 7 miles now, so do 7 mile ride monday, 10 mile ride weds and then a 5-7 mile ride on the sat. plenty of rest time and you will be using yor bike for all those little trips too.
Get yourself a bike computer with average speed and cadence on it, this will motivate you (about £30) and help you understand how to ride efficiently.
also, use the same routes for now so you know whats coming, where to save your energy, when to push etc... go to www.mapmyride.com and you will probably find a route near you which suits your level. If you have fat tyres on, get some road tyres (£10) and keep the pressure to about 100psi (any higher than that will be uncomfortable for you at this level). Put some toe clips on your pedals and concentrate on pulling up rather than pishing down, gravity does that for you.
I started cycling three years ago on a heavy old hybrid doing 5-10 miles, within 4 months i had a regular 25mile route which i done for a year, then i got a road bike on cycle to work scheme, lycra'd up, cliples peddals and do regular 100 mile route each week at least once. you can do it too !!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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VolklAttivaS5, you're welcome. Although I agree with the physics of what he says I think I'd find it hard (at first) to do what he suggests. I guess the same principle is true for motorbikes and pedal-bikes except that you might have less "feel" for how well the back wheel is gripping. Obviously I was just thinking of ways to get mobile rather than high speeds or rough stuff.
Re the washing couldn't you put it in a bag to carry out? A few years ago I used to carry "spun dry" washing home from the laundrette in a backpacking rucksack without getting a wet back. Although, if it's not too far, I guess just a bin bag would do in your case.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Forgive me Snowheads for I have sinned- it was 6 days since my last bike ride - however, I went out tonight and did the 7.7 mile circuit. I hope this will get me back going again.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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abc, I'm rather liking the idea that I'm one of the master race. Do I get an NHS peaked cap and shiny boots?
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too much exercise is bad for you.. your joints and muscles and tendons expected you to bounce a round like a loon then die at 30 from a disease or getting eaten by a sabre toothed tiger.. you have to pace things a bit more these days.. i mean look at roger bannister!!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| abc wrote: |
I'm not against meassuring per se. But I'm question all this talk of "green zone" or "ideal hip to waist ratio". Strikes me much like the definition of the master race , with its zero allowance to individual variations.
(and for that matter, the rigid 5 times per week minimum exercise) |
They're not arbitary, they're based on pretty robust science. If your waist to hip ratio is above 0.85(female) or 0.90(male) then you're at increased risk of hypertension, diabetes, and cardiovascular disease. It is statistically a far more accurate predictor than BMI, or waist measurement alone.
The good news, is that unlike the defnition of the master race, if you fall outside the definition, it is rectifiable with hard work and dedication (and five sessions of exercise a week. ). As opposed to their ethnicity, people's waist lines are under their control.
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| Quote: |
It is statistically a far more accurate predictor than BMI, or waist measurement alone.
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Statistically!!!
What it all means is that's the case "on average" (not to mention the "everything else being equall" bits). It doesn't mean it IS (or should be) the case for EVERYONE!!!
So, instead of "if you fall outside the definition, it is rectifiable...", it just says if you fall outside the definition, you likely to be slightly DIFFERENT! Or NOT!!! Further more, that difference can be either good, bad or irrelevant.
Now, that 'difference' could very well be an indicator of un-healthy life style, which maybe the case for a good portion of the population. But that difference could also simply be a result of above or below average genetic make-up, or that of an entire race!
More over, because it's "statistical". It also implies the opposite is true too: just because you fall INSIDE the "zone", it doesn't mean you as an individual is at a particular better position than those who're outside. It's call "statistical fluctuation". Just because it's "on average" true for 100 or 1000 people doesn't mean it's true for each and every one of those hundreds and thousands.
The science maybe reasonably robust (to a degree, not having access to the research itself). But your understanding of its finding, and the conclusion you drawn, appears to have stretched OUTSIDE of its scope of validity.
And this "outside" definition, is NOT statistical!
Cheers.
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FAQ
