 Poster: A snowHead
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| jedster wrote: |
Even if you can hear you should shoulder check before manouvering - not just because you get more information but because the shoulder check is a brilliant signal to motorists that you are about to do SOMETHING it tends to make them give you more space and hold of overtaking. |
Guy I know was getting instruction on his motorbike a few years back, and the instructor called that move "the lifesaver" - that kind of chat tends to stick !!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@jirac18, the way people step out in front of traffic in the city centre is probably far more of an issue than headphones. Having ridden my bike down the high street it's remarkable how many walk out without looking, or step out from behind a bus at a stop.
I actually find that headphones make me more observant when crossing roads, cant rely on audible cues
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Yes, I always shoulder-check on the bike (I ride a push bike now, but used to ride a motor bike) and also hand signal. The turn into my street is a right turn, and right on a bend, with lots of parked cars. I am very cautious.
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Just shout.
Get out the way.
There's an expert coming thru 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| jedster wrote: |
| pam w wrote: |
| I'll vote for the umbrella ban. But I do agree with @GreenDay that headphones are even more likely to be death-trappy when there are silent electric cars around. I have not, by the way, ever worn, or suggested wearing, headphones on a bike. Even a helmet, especially with a balaclava underneath in cold weather, seriously cuts down on how well you can hear traffic behind you. On a bike of course, it' s vital to know what's behind you before moving out to overtake or turn right. On skis or a board it's more important to know what's below/in front of you and generally unwise to try to make hasty movements to avoid what you infer somebody behind you is doing, or planning to do. |
Even if you can hear you should shoulder check before manouvering - not just because you get more information but because the shoulder check is a brilliant signal to motorists that you are about to do SOMETHING it tends to make them give you more space and hold of overtaking. |
100%. I've never felt the need for headphones whilst cycling (or snowboarding) but each to their own. The newer headphones with Transparency Mode are incredibly good for keeping you in tune with the surroundings though (when walking about). So much of cycling (and skiing / boarding) is about appearing to be predictable to those around you. A quick over the shoulder is a definite subconscious signal that you're about to move (same as a weight shift on the snow).
It's the standard thing of it's no good being right but being in a crash if you're skiing / boarding / cycling / walking..... it hurts whoever was in the wrong.
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| Quote: |
So much of cycling (and skiing / boarding) is about appearing to be predictable to those around you.
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Absolutely. Best to keep a predictable, regular, line if you can. And definitely not to make some sudden change of course or speed because of what you think, or fear, might be happening a couple of yards behind you!! And if you are hit by some knobhead from behind, best not to be tensed up against it.
I am not critical of those who prefer not to ski to music but it does irritate me when there are so many people self-righteously implying that only an irresponsible fool who cares not a jot for himself or others would choose to do so. I listen to music, and books, in the car too (books are much more distracting than music - I once drove past my exit on the M5, so entranced was I by my audio book) and even talk to people - and none of those things are really ideal, I recognise. A car is a more lethal weapon than a person on skis. Nobody who listens to music, or stories, or chats with people, especially on a phone, even hands free, when they are driving has any basis on which to criticise those who listen to music when skiing.
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| Quote: |
Does no one peg a playing card to their frame so that it catches on the spokes to make a noise any more?
No need for bells at all then.
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with the latest incarnation of bike wheels, the pawls/ratchet in the hub has the same effect as a whole deck of playing cards flicking off the spokes.
partly one reason I don't need or use a bell, until right at the last moment if necessary.
One superpower I have managed to gain during the pandemic is that of invisibility. Works when I'm on the bike when the student zombies that are assimilated with thier phones amble straight across the bike path, and often straight across a light controlled pedestrian crossing (in roadworks where the layout changes daily). Same when I'm walking in the pedestrian zone. Even in the high point of social distancing I had 2 people physically walk in to me at the same time from opposite sides. Same on the road in a vehicle... even had a pram pushed right in to me whilst stationary at a stop line.
So given that, I don't expect for one minute that I'll be pole clicked at, and will merely be skied into. Although tbf, I have skied right over someone's skis as I skied off a chairlift (the other person was not on the same chair but skied very slowly right across the dismount zone).
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If I’m passing someone in front of me on a path or narrow section then I whistle a jolly tune as I carefully glide past. I’m agnostic about pole-clicking but think my tune is a more polite signal 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@pam w,
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I am not critical of those who prefer not to ski to music but it does irritate me when there are so many people self-righteously implying that only an irresponsible fool who cares not a jot for himself or others would choose to do so. I listen to music, and books, in the car too (books are much more distracting than music - I once drove past my exit on the M5, so entranced was I by my audio book) and even talk to people - and none of those things are really ideal, I recognise. A car is a more lethal weapon than a person on skis. Nobody who listens to music, or stories, or chats with people, especially on a phone, even hands free, when they are driving has any basis on which to criticise those who listen to music when skiing.
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I'm not keen to rise to any of this, even though it's only a semi-accurate representation of my views, with a bit of whataboutery thrown in, so will gracefully let you have the last word
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if you are hit by some knobhead from behind, best not to be tensed up against it.
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But yet you shoulder check on a bike, which presumably means that you won't be totally relaxed in the event of someone knocking you off the bike.
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@andy,
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One superpower I have managed to gain during the pandemic is that of invisibility
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I've annoyingly had this power most of my life, but in my case I think it's partly a function of being below most people's radar. At one time I used to call it Crush Bar Syndrome, because of the sort of people who were in the habit of buying over-priced drinks in the Crush Bar at the Royal Opera House and would cannon into me as I'd be walking through the Bar, even though it seemed as though they had actually seen me coming - they still had a go at trying to knock me over. I don't suppose this is deliberate but it's quite annoying.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
But yet you shoulder check on a bike, which presumably means that you won't be totally relaxed in the event of someone knocking you off the bike
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 No, the shoulder check is so that you won't be thrown off your bike. It's akin to using a rear view mirror, so you don't pull out of your lane into the path of a truck.
But certainly, if I was going to be knocked off my bike, of course I'd prefer not to be aware of it in the seconds before impact!
However, I do concede that when you are doing something which requires concentration and the maximum use of all your senses, listening to music, or an audiobook, or your kids chattering with you, is best avoided.
If anyone feels that doing any combination of those things is perfickly OK if you are driving a car on a three line highway at 80 mph but not when you are skiing, I'd be interested to hear their reasoning.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Actually, I always do an "over shoulder check" skiing, if I'm planning to dive across to the edge of the piste - and often hand signal too if it's busy. But I don't find the music interferes with doing that.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Actually, I always do an "over shoulder check" skiing, if I'm planning to dive across to the edge of the piste |
I thought one needed to be an owl to be able to do that. Or is that another superpower you have?
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You know it makes sense.
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Eh?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| pam w wrote: |
If anyone feels that doing any combination of those things is perfickly OK if you are driving a car on a three line highway at 80 mph but not when you are skiing, I'd be interested to hear their reasoning. |
I do 70-80mph+ on a bike on motorways with earplugs, listening to the music. I can drive home after a beer (well within UK generous limit for drink driving). Tesla and other EV manufacturers (with approval from lawmakers) make us use touchscreens to change speed of wipers.
The difference is that people mostly drive because they have to, it's a mean of transport. Skiing/snowboarding is to have a fun or/and boost adrenaline. Drinking or listening to music on a slope would give me a feel of superpower so it wouldn't end well. Also, there are always many people focused on their own enjoyment of the snow so it's just too much to worry about.
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Poster: A snowHead
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If you aren't listening to James Brown or Heaven 17's We don't need this fascist groove thing how the hell are you lot slaying the bumps?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I like music because I can click my poles in time to the beat.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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No music of my choice in the car, having learned my lesson years ago, nearly going off the road listening to something lush - just bits of whatever comes up on the radio, usually R3 or ClassicFM.. Similarly, no audio books, just R4 or R4Extra. All pretty bland, anyway.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
@andy,
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One superpower I have managed to gain during the pandemic is that of invisibility
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I've annoyingly had this power most of my life, but in my case I think it's partly a function of being below most people's radar. At one time I used to call it Crush Bar Syndrome, because of the sort of people who were in the habit of buying over-priced drinks in the Crush Bar at the Royal Opera House and would cannon into me as I'd be walking through the Bar, even though it seemed as though they had actually seen me coming - they still had a go at trying to knock me over. I don't suppose this is deliberate but it's quite annoying. |
Who said that? 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Origen wrote: |
| I'll vote for the umbrella ban |
Utter nonsense; lightweight / waterproof / totally breathable - much more effective than the latest Goretex iteration performance wise for rain protection
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| Belch wrote: |
| Origen wrote: |
| I'll vote for the umbrella ban |
Utter nonsense; lightweight / waterproof / totally breathable - much more effective than the latest Goretex iteration performance wise for rain protection |
Those of us wearing glasses resist the ban. Absolutely love an umbrella (not whilst skiing though).
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Here's footage of an actual collision on a narrow piste..(sorry don't blame me for the dreadful backing track..). Collision is at 0:21.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AuA8LbZSsBUjg-hP5k4T7F6HHEi-XA
I suspect pole clicking wouldn't have helped much in this particular example...it's always the boarders' fault
But another example of the potential dangers of busier narrow pistes..
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Tue 23-01-24 16:30; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Pyramus wrote: |
| I suspect pole clicking wouldn't have helped much in this particular example...it's always the boarders' fault |
I think she shouted "attention" in French, thereby absolving her of all responsibility for both collisions. Poor show of the beginner snowboarder to not immediately evaporate on hearing the shouted warning so the woman could continue to ski at high speed on what was obviously her private piste.
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| Pyramus wrote: |
Here's footage of an actual collision on a narrow piste..(sorry don't blame me for the dreadful backing track..). Collision is at 0:21.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AuA8LbZSsBUjg-hP5k4T7F6HHEi-XA?e=ScV8oZ
I suspect pole clicking wouldn't have helped much in this particular example...it's always the boarders' fault
But another example of the potential dangers of busier narrow pistes.. |
No it's an example of irresponsible skiing, what did she think she was doing?! Absolute idiot.
She needed to slow down and understand how the boarders were using the piste, and then time a pass accordingly (in this case, to the side). Threading through slower piste users at speed shows complete lack of skill and awareness (or an inflated ego and contempt for others).
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You know it makes sense.
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Nothing really beats a well-shouty "ACHTUNG!" to any Euro or Brit in the way. "Attention" is a tad effeminate, in a onesie-clad ski instructor sort of way, and doesn't really have the same historical imperative.
For boarders, I find a gentle tap or two with my pole on their top sheet, ideally from their blind side, ensures swift evacuation from my line and focus on other piste users (trying to figure out who did it, presumably).
Both actions taken together develops a sense of all round wariness on piste, which I'm sure the FIS, ESF and WEF would agree is a good thing.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Thomasski wrote: |
No it's an example of irresponsible skiing, what did she think she was doing?! Absolute idiot. |
Fair play, I recon she learnt a lesson..
But, it is an example of a flat narrow section of piste where all skiers (not just her) were schuss-ing through. Ok in this case it was the innocent (learner?) boarder, but equally someone could have decided to suddenly traverse a hard turn straight across the path of someone else.
So what's the answer? Absolutely no overtaking allowed on sections like that, just in case someone pulls off such a move?
Then maybe put up signs saying "No overtaking" as I can't imagine they are thinking about FIS rule 4 when schussing that section of piste..
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Pyramus wrote: |
| So what's the answer? Absolutely no overtaking allowed on sections like that, just in case someone pulls off such a move? |
There’s two answers:
1. Understand that it is your responsibility to pass slower skiers in front of you in a safe manner.
2. Ski/board at a speed which allows you to fulfil point 1.
It’s not difficult. Just requires a bit of respect for the people you share the mountain with.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@rob@rar, Collisions still happen as we can see. I thought we were discussing what additional measures (such as "pole clicking") could/should be taken to reduce chance of collision or to mitigate risk, rather than just make an incorrect assumption that everyone is perfectly following the rules at all times.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Pyramus, you asked what the answer was to overtaking on gentle pistes. I gave you an answer. I think I gave you the answer. But as you continue to troll I don’t think there’s much value in going further with the discussion, not least because nobody is going to give you the answer that you want.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Pyramus wrote: |
Here's footage of an actual collision on a narrow piste..(sorry don't blame me for the dreadful backing track..). Collision is at 0:21.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AuA8LbZSsBUjg-hP5k4T7F6HHEi-XA?e=ScV8oZ
I suspect pole clicking wouldn't have helped much in this particular example...it's always the boarders' fault
But another example of the potential dangers of busier narrow pistes.. |
Oof - scratch one, down in flames... that looks like a lot like Perce Neige above Samoens, and you've always got to watch out for people running out of momentum as you go through the sump on that, particularly before the uphill bit.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
It’s not difficult. Just requires a bit of respect for the people you share the mountain with.
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This.
Rule #1: Never, ever do anything that causes another skier to change what they're doing to react to what you've done.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| @Pyramus, you asked what the answer was to overtaking on gentle pistes. I gave you an answer. I think I gave you the answer. But as you continue to troll I don’t think there’s much value in going further with the discussion, not least because nobody is going to give you the answer that you want. |
So do you say that all the other skiers passing the camera guy at speed are also breaking the rules and were skiing dangerously? Any one of them could have collided with camera guy if he had suddenly decided he wanted to go to the edge of the piste, across the general flow of traffic.
I like the way you hold onto the FIS rules so wholesomely, when in reality a) a lot of people don't actually know them, or 2) it's not even practical to follow them.
C'mon mate, try some pole clicking, come to the dark side.
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| Pyramus wrote: |
| rob@rar wrote: |
| @Pyramus, you asked what the answer was to overtaking on gentle pistes. I gave you an answer. I think I gave you the answer. But as you continue to troll I don’t think there’s much value in going further with the discussion, not least because nobody is going to give you the answer that you want. |
So do you say that all the other skiers passing the camera guy at speed are also breaking the rules and were skiing dangerously? Any one of them could have collided with camera guy if he had suddenly decided he wanted to go to the edge of the piste, across the general flow of traffic.
I like the way you hold onto the FIS rules so wholesomely, when in reality a) a lot of people don't actually know them, or 2) it's not even practical to follow them.
C'mon mate, try some pole clicking, come to the dark side. |
Which he would be 100% entitled to do.
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| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
| Pyramus wrote: |
Here's footage of an actual collision on a narrow piste..(sorry don't blame me for the dreadful backing track..). Collision is at 0:21.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AuA8LbZSsBUjg-hP5k4T7F6HHEi-XA?e=ScV8oZ
I suspect pole clicking wouldn't have helped much in this particular example...it's always the boarders' fault
But another example of the potential dangers of busier narrow pistes.. |
Oof - scratch one, down in flames... that looks like a lot like Perce Neige above Samoens, and you've always got to watch out for people running out of momentum as you go through the sump on that, particularly before the uphill bit. |
I can't access the vid on this one, but if it is that piste, then quite substantially "sumpy" with everyone trying to run the gauntlet and avoid the walk of shame up the other side toward Morillon turnoff went through there holding my breath first time on a board (one week of learning) after skiing it many times previous.
To Morillon, it used to go through a little tunnel there underneath the landing platform of the chair coming up from Molliet side, then across a knife edge into Morillon sector that really put the hee-b-gee-bees up early ski skill participants. Literally no turning at all with effectively a single track across between severe drops.
The Perce Neige right at top, departing Tète d Saix, was also a fearsome short section for early skills too. Good luck sorting out skier priorities in that short bit as it was originally. Think you could get a whole ski class inside one mogul dip at times there, just visible was the bobble hat of instructor 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Is it in France? if so no fault at all from skier unless the snowboarder is French too...
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FAQ
