 Poster: A snowHead
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[quote="zikomo"]
| andmelffion wrote: |
| dklemm wrote: |
| ster wrote: |
| @MHskier, I read your first response where it sounds like you're wanting to accelerate the dosage in contravention of clinical decisions by those know better to "maximise the chance of this trip"? I think you and I know kids are at very low risk of having any adverse effect of getting infected with Covid. Why is it incredibly unfair for those at more risk to have a booster than kids at very low risk? I guess you're adhering to all the rules except this one? |
Getting my kids vaccinated so the can travel on holiday is 100% my top priority, there is plenty of capacity to vaccinate them and they are not jumping any queue of more vulnerable. |
No plans in England to reduce gap between doses, my wife manages 3 vaccine centres so is fully up to date with info on this, if a centre gives a jab prior to this timeline they are in effect breaking the legal protocols that are in place |
Utter non-sense, there is no "legal protocol" related to vaccination. That is simply made up. JCVI advises a gap of between 8 and 12 weeks, so far the English government has chosen to advise heath authorities to stick to a 12 week gap for 12-17 year olds with some exceptions where 8 week gap is advised for vulnerable (but also for "essential travel"). There is no legal basis for this and the vaccine has all the necessary approvals to be given after 8 weeks. Any clinician, including the head vaccinator at a vaccination centre, can over-ride the current advice and authorise a vaccine after 8 weeks as that is within both the JCVI advice and the MHRA authorisation. Clearly some health authorities and vaccination centres are CHOOSING to state is some sort of legal protocol, but that does not make it true. I am shocked that anyone who manages several vaccination centres would not understand all of this.[/quotes
Oh dear is all I will say to that.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Does anyone have any definitive links that can explain what the deal is for travelling to France with a 14 year old who has had 1 jab + a recent COVID recovery ? Just to confuse things we are travelling via Geneva, my plan was to get the whole family LFT tested before we go, adhering to the French rules so that we shouldn't have any issues when landing in Geneva
I've read so many conflicting views and articles that I just can't see the wood for the trees on this - we have 1 week before we commit to the chalet booking so things might get some clarity over the next few days but think these are the key questions...
Do they inherit the vaccine status of their parents ?
Do they have to have had 2 jabs ?
Does 1 jab and recovery count as fully vaccinated (at least for entry, appreciate this isn't good enough for the Pass Sanitaire) ?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Just got back got back from the vaccination centre.
We needed to chat with the Head Vaccinator but they authorised our son to have his 1st vaccine (he tested +ve 11 weeks ago today) and said it'd be fine to come back in 11 weeks for his 2nd, as long as he doesn't test +ve again in the meantime. That'll be exactly a week before our Easter trip  . They did say we could come back in 8 weeks but recommended leaving it 11 if 'pos.'
I was completely honest, explaining this was to make things easier on a ski trip. The fact that the vaccine centre was practically empty probably helped; it was clear reducing gaps down to 8 weeks is at their discretion.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Vessigaud Like you, I am very interested in the answers to these questions. I have been reading everything I can on it, and here is a summary so far as I understand it - not that it resolves matters!
| Vessigaud wrote: |
Do they inherit the vaccine status of their parents ?
Do they have to have had 2 jabs ?
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I know of no definitive links - the problem is that French government links contain potentially contradictory information. The issue seems to revolve around what a "minor" is in the sentence "The measures applied to vaccinated adults extend under the same conditions to accompanying minors, whether or not they are vaccinated" (which is to be found at https://www.interieur.gouv.fr/Actualites/L-actu-du-Ministere/Certificate-of-international-travel under "TRAVEL TO/FROM THE UNITED KINGDOM").
The negative view (i.e. that this sentence means that only <12y olds inherit the vaccine status of the accompanying adult) is informed by the French government also saying that "For unvaccinated minors under 12 years, the vaccine status of their parents or accompanying guardians shall apply" at https://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/coming-to-france/coming-to-france-your-covid-19-questions-answered/article/coming-to-france-your-covid-19-questions-answered?var_mode=calcul . The optimists say that the fact that they have to qualify "minor" with "under 12 years" means that a general reference to "minors" means all non-adults. Plus it might be said that the context of the sentence about "minors under 12 years" means it is just referring to the fact that <12y do not need testing at all on entry to France.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Sat 15-01-22 17:33; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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[Continuation of post - lost text when I tried submitting all at once for some reason]
As has been pointed out, Eurostar takes the happy view that >=12y olds do inherit the vaccine status of the accompanying adult: https://www.eurostar.com/uk-en/service-information/coronavirus-and-eurostar-service/travel-requirements . I can also say from personal experience in the summer (when the wording about "minors" inheriting vaccine status was the same) that I had no trouble entering France by Eurostar with an unvaccinated 12y old.
For what it's worth, the UK government's interpretation is the same as Eurostar's. The UK's advice for travel to France is that "The same measures applied to vaccinated adults are applied to any minors who are travelling with them, whether vaccinated or not": https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/france/entry-requirements
I'm not confident that the French government websites will clarify this issue. I am therefore waiting to hear about actual experiences of people travelling to France - is anyone arriving in France this weekend with a non-fully-vaccinated teenager? Please do tell us your experiences!
| Vessigaud wrote: |
| Does 1 jab and recovery count as fully vaccinated (at least for entry, appreciate this isn't good enough for the Pass Sanitaire) ? |
I have seen no suggestion anywhere that a recovery is relevant for entry. As far as I can see, entry depends only on the points addressed above, so either a teenager needs 2 jabs, or the number of jabs is irrelevant because it's the accompanying adult's vaccine status that counts. As for relevance of recovery to the Pass Sanitaire, see the section entitled "Equivalency Certificates" in the helpful article to which many have linked: https://www.morzinesourcemagazine.com/covid-19-and-your-holiday-in-morzine-les-gets-or-avoriaz-this-winter/. My TO has been advising that pharmacies in Morzine and Avoriaz have been willing to issue the equivalency certificate on the basis of 1 jab + recovery, thereby removing the need for daily tests.
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Thanks for the details Yak - I'm just going to sit tight and hope it gets clarified before we have to make a decision next weekend - in the meantime looking at alternate options where details for teenagers are a bit clearer
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| 7ncj wrote: |
Just got back got back from the vaccination centre.
We needed to chat with the Head Vaccinator but they authorised our son to have his 1st vaccine (he tested +ve 11 weeks ago today) and said it'd be fine to come back in 11 weeks for his 2nd, as long as he doesn't test +ve again in the meantime. That'll be exactly a week before our Easter trip . They did say we could come back in 8 weeks but recommended leaving it 11 if 'pos.'
I was completely honest, explaining this was to make things easier on a ski trip. The fact that the vaccine centre was practically empty probably helped; it was clear reducing gaps down to 8 weeks is at their discretion. |
Do you mind me asking where this was please?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| tele wrote: |
We are in a similar situation - eldest has 1 jab but can't get a second due to having covid recently. We were hoping to ski early March in Val Thorens and have to pay for our accommodation soon. We won't go if eldest has to test every day.
Second covid jab for eldest will be possible 12 days before we travel, however as NHS scotland don't give under 16s an 'app', we will have to wait for the 2nd Jab to appear on their system, then order a paper certificate of vaccination. Alternatively, we can definitely prove 1 vaccination and our doctor will give a letter to say eldest has had covid, however there is no qr code, and we don't know the pharmacy in VT will give a pass sanitaire to Brits...
Lots of uncertainties. Is Italy or Switzerland likely to be any easier? |
Hi not sure if someone else has answered you. We were in same situation getting 2nd dose for 15 year old 7 days before we were due to travel to VT 21/12/21 - his dose appeared on the NHS Scotland inform login the day afternoon his jab and you can download the covid certificate immediately (which has qr codes) rather than waiting on paper copy. Then showed as valid 7 days later on TousAntiCovid app.
We rebooked for 5/2/22 which looks like it's happening.
Good luck, hope it works out for you.
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@susieq78,
It was one in Exeter.
The people there were happy to discuss. The person on the front desk said she couldn't send us through as it was less than 12 weeks, but listened to why we'd like it sooner if possible and offered to go and get the Head Vaccinator. They explained in quite some detail the reasons for the current gaps, the JVCI guidance on min/max gaps and the associated risks. The 8 week gap, for people who don't meet any of the other criteria for the shorter gap, is for consideration when there are high rates or a variant is prevalent. They did say it was surprising that had not been confirmed as yet (not clear if they meant locally or nationally).
I won't name the specific place as I'd hate it if it start getting quoted and there was any comeback on them. We did try another earlier in the day and got a equally friendly reception, but ultimately a no. 'sorry, you don't meet the criteria come back next week.' Others on here have also had a similar experience. We deliberately chose a time when it was likely to be quiet; even though we were discussing at the entrance for 15 mins or so, no one else had turned up after us when we went through!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@7ncj, thank you for the info. Last night I offered my son the option of a road trip to wales - he was delighted! We are heading home now, he was given his second jab this morning at a walk in centre in Wrexham. No queue at 9am on a Sunday. No issue with him being 9 weeks after first jab. No questions asked about why he was registered with a GP in England.
Slightly mad mission but I’m so relieved we will be able to get the all elusive QR code next week in plenty of time for half term. The time spent fretting about it (and scouring the internet for solutions) was getting out of control!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| susieq78 wrote: |
@7ncj, thank you for the info. Last night I offered my son the option of a road trip to wales - he was delighted! We are heading home now, he was given his second jab this morning at a walk in centre in Wrexham. No queue at 9am on a Sunday. No issue with him being 9 weeks after first jab. No questions asked about why he was registered with a GP in England.
Slightly mad mission but I’m so relieved we will be able to get the all elusive QR code next week in plenty of time for half term. The time spent fretting about it (and scouring the internet for solutions) was getting out of control! |
 well done! Just be aware the letter is only valid for 1month so you need to wait for a few weeks if you need it for the Feb half term.
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@susieq78, Good effort!
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You know it makes sense.
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So is it all wales health boards doing this or just north wales. ?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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So is it all wales health boards doing this or just north wales. ?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| MHskier wrote: |
| So is it all wales health boards doing this or just north wales. ? |
Just north Wales at the moment but personally I suspect others will follow shortly and England.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| andmelffion wrote: |
Oh dear is all I will say to that. |
I was simply pointing out the actual facts. It is not helpful to anyone if bold statements are made that do not have any basis in fact. Made worse by your claim to have some sort of expertise because your wife "manages several vaccination centres". You are simply wrong in your assertion and seem to have had a bit of a passive aggressive response to this being pointed out, rather than addressing the points made.
I suggest you either recant your statement or provide the proof of the so-called "legal basis" that prevents 12-17 year olds from getting a second dose before 12 weeks. The fact is it does not exist. There has been limited capacity to vaccinate (not lack of vaccine itself per se) and the choice was made to prioritise boosters for older age groups, hence the choice by local health authorities to limit the ability of 12-17 year olds to book a second vaccination less than 12 weeks after the first. It has no standing in law, and 8 weeks is the actual minimum interval that has been approved for covid-19 vaccines. Clinicians are able to make the decision to vaccinate teenagers earlier than 12 weeks, and indeed do make this judgement for certain groups on a regular basis.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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For anyone travelling to Morzine :
I have just received an email from the main Pharmacy who declined to provide a QR pass using UK NHS documents under the recovered / +1 jab ' rule '
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I’ve just got my younger son his second vaccine at a walk in centre at 10 weeks +1 day (Surrey). Explained it was so we could travel to Italy in feb and that I was worried that he might catch covid in the next two weeks before his official 12 weeks which would stop us from going. The GP clinical lead had to make the decision. He said he shouldn’t really but did. So it’s definitely worth trying now the centres are quieter.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| spex wrote: |
For anyone travelling to Morzine :
I have just received an email from the main Pharmacy who declined to provide a QR pass using UK NHS documents under the recovered / +1 jab ' rule ' |
Thanks - just saved me a job Will definitely try a few pharmacies when we are there just to see if asking in person can help
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Reporting success with getting a walk in to second jab a 13 year old 2 days early - they didn’t even ask at the front door and the vaccinator spotted it but just shrugged. I’d been all set to argue not missing school for midweek appointments etc.
Kassam in Oxford, if anyone nearby - they’re open til 7pm and dead quiet.
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1st post be gentle with me.
Due to go to France 1st week March. Eldest is 12, 1st jab yesterday and have proof of recovery cert.
No time to get his 2nd before travel (6 weeks today)
How has anyone managed to secure acceptable proof of vaccine from
NHS please?
Trying at all costs to avoid daily testing and inherent risk!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| RicardoNCL wrote: |
Eldest is 12, 1st jab yesterday and have proof of recovery cert.
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Hi Ricardo, welcome (although I'm new around here too). I can't help you, but maybe you can help me! What is the "proof of recovery certificate" to which you refer? Is that a private thing that you paid for? I can't see any NHS way of obtaining this - all we have are the texts/emails saying that our child had a positive PCR test.
As to proof of vaccine, I have seen others talking about asking their GP for it.
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My 15 yo son hasn’t had any jabs because he’s had covid twice - last time on Christmas Eve. We’re off to Val Thorens on 19th Feb. I’m hoping our worst case is daily antigen tests, but the Valthorens.com website updated 13 Jan makes me hopeful that with a Certificate of Recovery at the Pharmacy in VT. “The Health Pass consists of the presentation in digital or paper form of the result of a positive RT-PCR test attesting to the recovery of Covi-19, at least 11 days old & less than 6 months old. Please note that you must be able to present a QR code.”. The VT Pharmacy does provide a service for €41 for validation of vaccine status from countries without recognised QR codes eg USA so I am hoping they will be able to give my son a QR code for the week, rather than daily antigen tests.
Hopefully some Snowheads will have experience of this & which c9mpany to use for ‘Recovery Certificate’ before we go!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| yak wrote: |
| RicardoNCL wrote: |
Eldest is 12, 1st jab yesterday and have proof of recovery cert.
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Hi Ricardo, welcome (although I'm new around here too). I can't help you, but maybe you can help me! What is the "proof of recovery certificate" to which you refer? Is that a private thing that you paid for? I can't see any NHS way of obtaining this - all we have are the texts/emails saying that our child had a positive PCR test.
As to proof of vaccine, I have seen others talking about asking their GP for it. |
Cheers Yak, yep paid for privately online (lots on Google from about £80 up)
I’ll head to the GP and see what they say…ours are notoriously obstructive!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| JulieCarey wrote: |
Hopefully some Snowheads will have experience of this & which c9mpany to use for ‘Recovery Certificate’ before we go! |
I used mayfield clinic (cert received within 6 hours)
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| RicardoNCL wrote: |
| JulieCarey wrote: |
Hopefully some Snowheads will have experience of this & which c9mpany to use for ‘Recovery Certificate’ before we go! |
I used mayfield clinic (cert received within 6 hours) |
Does it scan into the French covid app ?
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You know it makes sense.
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It is now possible for 12+ year olds (in Scotland) to log in and generate a QR code using the NHS Scotland covid status app.
My eldest has a code for the single vaccination, and another for recovery from covid. (Similar to my account, which has 3x codes from 3x vaccines).
I have imported the codes into the French 'anticovid' app, and 2 codes have been generated there also (no idea which qr code they will want to see,.. Will deal with that later.
So good news for people in Scotland with 12+ year olds that want to travel. Hopefully it will be sorted out soon for rUK - it really shouldn't be difficult for them to sort this out..
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| tele wrote: |
It is now possible for 12+ year olds (in Scotland) to log in and generate a QR code using the NHS Scotland covid status app.
My eldest has a code for the single vaccination, and another for recovery from covid. (Similar to my account, which has 3x codes from 3x vaccines).
I have imported the codes into the French 'anticovid' app, and 2 codes have been generated there also (no idea which qr code they will want to see,.. Will deal with that later.
So good news for people in Scotland with 12+ year olds that want to travel. Hopefully it will be sorted out soon for rUK - it really shouldn't be difficult for them to sort this out.. |
That's so great, especially the code for recovery - worth moving to Scotland for! Come on NHS England!
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Poster: A snowHead
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My doctors did provide both a evidence of first covid jab and a positive PCR - although trying to get proxy access via the app seems to be a step too far for them. I'm know wondering if I get a proof of recovery cert if this would be enough for my 14 year old to get his pass sanitaire - think it all relies on whether the QR code will scan in the French app
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hi
Newish to the forum and have a couple of questions that hopefully someone can answer for me please.
Planning on a trip to Morzine with our 2 sons (age 13/15) at Feb HT.
Vaccine status is -
Both had Covid in Oct
Both had 1st jab in Dec
I'm struggling to work out exactly what's required to ski for them both and is what I'm hoping someone can help with.
As I understand it, UK adults don't require a pass sanitare if they are fully vaccinated and have an NHS showing the vaccine details. The logic being that the "verification " is made by the NHS.
As the boys can't have the NHS app, the paperwork displaying the vaccine details needs verifying and for France that's via the pass sanitare?
If that's correct, is the verification only possible in person, in resort, requiring the NHS vaccine paperwork? This also carries a €36 cost?
And then finally, is 1 jab and proof of having Covid (Both within the timescales allowed) sufficient for France or not, there seems to be a lot of contradiction over various websites.
Any help/clarification is much appreciated.
Thanks
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Google Morzine Source Magazine. That website will be your friend!
With one jab and proof of recovery, officially your boys will need to have lateral flow tests at a local pharmacy every day to maintain their Pass Santiere (it's rumoured requirements for this will change before half term). Unofficially some are reporting some Morzine pharmacies have been granting a full pass sanitaire for Brit 12-15 year olds with one jab and recovery evidence, but that appears hit and miss.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Thanks for the quick response, the bit in your reply - it's rumoured that requirements will change before HT - are the rumours that the requirements will ease or tighten?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| jimsue20040 wrote: |
| Thanks for the quick response, the bit in your reply - it's rumoured that requirements will change before HT - are the rumours that the requirements will ease or tighten? |
Just change unfortunately.
Can your boys not have their second jab before? Sounds like they had the first early / less than 12 weeks after covid?
We're right up against it to get our 12 year old double vaccinated and proof obtained before our trip to Avoriaz at Easter! I've booked an apartment in Saas Fee as a back up as currently much easier for u16s to ski in Switzerland than France.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| jimsue20040 wrote: |
As I understand it, UK adults don't require a pass sanitare if they are fully vaccinated and have an NHS showing the vaccine details. The logic being that the "verification " is made by the NHS. |
Correct. However, many people suggest (and this was my experience in France last year) that using the French app (called TousAntiCovid) is easier, since you don't need to log in (or require internet access) to bring up your QR code. You can import your NHS app QR codes into it, and it gives you a French one that is scanned when entering restaurants etc.
| jimsue20040 wrote: |
As the boys can't have the NHS app, the paperwork displaying the vaccine details needs verifying and for France that's via the pass sanitare? |
They can have the NHS app, at least in principle. See https://www.nhsapp.service.nhs.uk/login : "What to do if you're aged 13 to 15? - You'll need to contact your GP surgery first and request access to GP online services". It sounds as though some GP practices can manage this, others can't (likewise for the alternative of making them 'linked account' within your own app).
| jimsue20040 wrote: |
If that's correct, is the verification only possible in person, in resort, requiring the NHS vaccine paperwork? This also carries a €36 cost? |
At the moment, yes (if even then). A digital solution in England has been promised for 'early' 2022 for access to vaccination records. @tele (a few posts up) has just indicated that NHS Scotland has already come up with the goods, so hopefully England will follow soon. As to whether it's possible even in resort, relying on previous infection rather than a 2nd jab, I agree with looking at Morzine Source Magazine (see link in my post at 15:53 of yesterday, above).
| jimsue20040 wrote: |
And then finally, is 1 jab and proof of having Covid (Both within the timescales allowed) sufficient for France or not, there seems to be a lot of contradiction over various websites. |
See above. As explained in Morzine Source Magazine, it is not officially possible since the UK has not been issuing the necessary QR codes (it would work if they did, as Scotland has just started doing). But some pharmacies have been doing it - sounds a bit hit and miss, and @spex (at 13:22 today, see above) reports that the Morzine pharmacy has just declined to do this by email.
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Having researched much of this extensively in the last fortnight…
12-15 year olds in England cannot get the all important QR code unless they are double jabbed, and then it’s in a printed letter sent in the post, takes about a week minimum to receive. Single jabbed and recovered teens meet the requirements of pass sanitaire but the problem is that the NHS won’t give a QR code for them.
Some French pharmacies have been accepting documentary evidence of single jab and recovery and issuing a pass sanitaire but not all will do it - need to check before travelling. There are reports of emailing documents beforehand and collecting printed letter on arrival in resort but it seems really inconsistent. They won’t all do it because it’s actually against the French rules for them to do so.
It’s ok if they are converting docs from a third country that doesn’t have equivalency/compatibility with the EU system - as mentioned, VT pharmacy doing this for US travellers for €41 - but that’s not us…. The UK does have compatibility. The problem is that the administrators of the NHS have not made QR codes available to this age group unless double jabbed.
Again, anecdotally, documents from GP/printed from health record showing positive PCR and one vaccine are reported as being accepted for conversion (if you can find an amenable pharmacy). I’m not sure there’s any value in paying for a privately issued certificate of recovery because even if they contain a QR code as some advertise, the QR is not compatible with EU system.
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Sorry - took me so long to write, I didn’t see the comprehensive reply above!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| 7ncj wrote: |
| jimsue20040 wrote: |
| Thanks for the quick response, the bit in your reply - it's rumoured that requirements will change before HT - are the rumours that the requirements will ease or tighten? |
Just change unfortunately.
Can your boys not have their second jab before? Sounds like they had the first early / less than 12 weeks after covid? Unfortunately not, 12 weeks from 1st Jan isn't until after Feb HT. I saw the post earlier today about getting a 2nd jab at 8 weeks in North Wales. We are in Chester so that's possible for us.
We're right up against it to get our 12 year old double vaccinated and proof obtained before our trip to Avoriaz at Easter! I've booked an apartment in Saas Fee as a back up as currently much easier for u16s to ski in Switzerland than France. |
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Yet another confused poster here.
We are due to go to France on 6Feb. All adults jabbed and boosted, but we have a 16 year old granddaughter.
She has had the first two jabs but not the booster.
16 year olds fall into a no jab land and are not eligible for boosters
Will the two jabs be sufficient? (hope so, no idea what we will do if they are not)
What paperwork do we need for her please?
Antigen tests ordered for us all.
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FAQ
