 Poster: A snowHead
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Fifespud, you seem a little overwrought. AFIK, Ryanair has never had a really serious incident, let alone a fatality. I may not wish to fly with them, but I cannot see that flight safety is a reason for not doing so. Ryanair policy on minimum fuel is clear - and as you point out they are answerable to the IAA. As a union, I would not expect IALPA to be friendly towards MOL. Would you?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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alex_heney,
..?
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Sat 17-10-09 9:30; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I know Ryan Air aren't the only ones playing with flight times to look good.
BMI flight from Aberdeen to Manchester was always quoted at 50 mins, Now it's ~ 1 hour 15.
So when the pilot says how good it is that we've landed 15-20 minutes early, I know I've just a longer wait for my taxi.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I must admit, I also find alex_heney a bit of a contrary t*t with a little too much PC time on his hands. 
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stanton, and Mollerski, , why the need for the personal attacks? This thread was a perfectly reasonable discussion about the obvious merits and flaws of no-frills airlines, yet you’ve both chosen to ignore rational debate and instead resort to childish name-calling. No matter which side of the argument you sit on, there’s no need to take this thread into some petty playground argument just because you happen to disagree with a certain point of view.
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| barry wrote: |
| Fifespud wrote: |
I had the knowledge that if more people acted as I had, MOL may have to reconsider some of his business practices |
not in a million years! that was my point earlier about folk misunderstanding him - he simply doesnt give two f*cks! He is in complete control of the company - 100% authority (regardless of the stock spread), and he aint going to change.
seems to me to be a bit of a smear campaign on against him right now, there was a big piece on one of the morning news shows this week slagging off ryanair and comparing them directly with BA, talking about all these hidden charges (even though you have to accept the charges before you're booking is complete! Smear campaign or not, there's one person out there who really couldnt care less - yes, Mikey!
those of you that think that traditional British punter indignance is going to change this guy are wasting your time
I think I'll change my signature line  |
Somebody accused me of cutting my nose off earlier, a little aggressively to be honest, surely this is what MOL would be doing if he totally ignored the 'court of public opinion'.
If he started losing his dosh, he would care all right.
I have always kind of felt that wouldn't surprise me if the whole thing was exposed, Maxwell or Maddoffesque, as a massive accountancy fraud.
That would certainly help smooth my British punter indignance all right.
In the meantime I am flying on fully topped up jets.
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| Quote: |
If he started losing his dosh, he would care all right.
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depends
MOL is the kind of guy where all outgoings are an investment. Ryanair made a huge wad of cash from trading planes. Enough that MOL can and does purposefully fly loss making routes to keep the company's market position. If his cash-burn puts another airline out of business or at least be forced to cut the route then he's won.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| achilles wrote: |
| Fifespud, you seem a little overwrought. AFIK, Ryanair has never had a really serious incident, let alone a fatality. I may not wish to fly with them, but I cannot see that flight safety is a reason for not doing so. Ryanair policy on minimum fuel is clear - and as you point out they are answerable to the IAA. As a union, I would not expect IALPA to be friendly towards MOL. Would you? |
IALPA attitude toward MOL/RA is unknown to me.
It would not surprise me if MOL has the ear of Irish media however.
The story your link points to says, absolutely nothing, it's a non denial, denial.
If what the London Times printed was totally false or even fabricated, would they not have had to print a correction?
Look I don't care who flies with RA, good luck to them, they offer cheap flights, no doubt, the planes are quick to get on and off, some of the destinations are great, especially if you want to land 100 miles away from a major European city.
I first flew on a Ryanair flight on February 13th 1992, it must have been one of their first, but I don't like MOL's f you attitude, don't like the add ons, don't like the mis-named airports (I have actually been to Weeze - miles from Dusseldorf), and I no longer fly with them.
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the thread about ski-republic seems to have been deleted on the basis that commentary in the thread could potentially be damaging to thier business. I presume that admin will afford Michael O' Leary the same courtesy and this thread will be deleted?????
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Fifespud wrote: |
| IALPA attitude toward MOL/RA is unknown to me. |
Then it is pointless for you too invoke, via The Times article, the opinion of one of its senior officials.
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| It would not surprise me if MOL has the ear of Irish media however. |
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He certainly has the ear of the British media - for a start the huge publicity Panorama gave him
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| If what the London Times printed was totally false or even fabricated, would they not have had to print a correction? |
Who has said they posted anything false. It's your apparent deduction that Ryanair is unsafe which is puzzling - even Panorama commented on their excellent safety record. A union (IALPA) says its members should be able to go beyond IAA agreed contingency safety levels. An employer (Ryanair) has not said they could not ruled that out, but said that on each occasion the reasons should be declared. Seems reasonable too me.
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Look I don't care who flies with RA, good luck to them, they offer cheap flights, no doubt, the planes are quick to get on and off, some of the destinations are great, especially if you want to land 100 miles away from a major European city.
I first flew on a Ryanair flight on February 13th 1992, it must have been one of their first, but I don't like MOL's f you attitude, don't like the add ons, don't like the mis-named airports (I have actually been to Weeze - miles from Dusseldorf), and I no longer fly with them. |
I don't care that you don't care. I am a little surprisedthat you are trying to convince others not to fly with them on the grounds of safety.
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Got it!! alex_heney is MOL's love child. 
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You know it makes sense.
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You always get rubbish like this on forums.
I am not trying to convince anyone to do anything, you immediately get all personal.
I am simply stating my reasons for not flying with them.
The thing is about airlines is, when the 100% safety record goes, it tends to be a bit catastrophic.
Carry on without me!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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I last flew Ryanair about 5 yrs ago, personally, I'd fly Flybe or Easyjet everytime rather than be treated like sh*t under Ryanair staff's shoes. If it cost more, so be it.
Flying Ryanair is a horrible experience and I hope that MOL's trans-Atlantic aspiration wipes the smile right off the smug little tosser's face.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Mollerski wrote: |
I last flew Ryanair about 5 yrs ago, personally, I'd fly Flybe or Easyjet everytime rather than be treated like sh*t under Ryanair staff's shoes. If it cost more, so be it.
Flying Ryanair is a horrible experience and I hope that MOL's trans-Atlantic aspiration wipes the smile right off the smug little tosser's face. |
I sometimes wonder if I fly with the same airline as the one that gets this kind of comment. I guess I fly with Ryanair some 20 times a year and have never found it a "horrible experience" and wonder what forms this horrible experience takes. As for being treated like poo-poo by the staff, I have never encountered anything other than reasonable to good service and courtesy. Strange how perceptions can differ.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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ccl, isn't it. I haven't had a horrible experience with Ryanair either. Not flown as often as you, but I just get on the plane and get off again, sometimes been at detination hotel within 20 mins of landing (Bergamo) . Staff at airport have always been fine (and they didn't charge me anything for a mis-typed name), cabin staff have done their job, and I've rarely been delayed.
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ccl, Helen Beaumont, My experiences are like yours. Follow the rules and you can avoid most of the charges. Get from A to B on time. Put the ipod on, ignore everything else going on around you. Not silver service treatment but that's not what the business model is all about and that's not what most of the punters expect - as you say Helen, get on the plane and get off again.
Everytime new charges come on, I test them against other low cost airlines and BA etc and Ryanair has always been cheaper. In my experience they also seem to have more regular flights to where I want to go - esp useful for skiing trips when you want to be able to hit the slopes in the morning of the first day and fly back after a full days skiing on the last day.
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vman, I don't get the chance to compare with anything other than EJ. To fly BA I have to use Heathrow, which immediately puts up the price, as it is two flights instead of direct.
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Problems with Ryanair's business model? If you're one of those people who DO like them (I will use them only if there is no other choice at all within reasonable cost) then good for you because there are many other businesses out there who would like to emulate that exact business model.
So how would you feel when in the future you go into Tesco, pay £5 for booking in /parking in their car park to spend your money in their shop? Or maybe you'll be happy to pay an extra £5 to use a basket? Fast lane - £10? Cashback - £5? Self service till - £5? Delicatesaan counter as opposed to pre-packaged - £10? Ask a 'colleague' where an item is located in the store - £1?
Where do you think this business model will end, your bank charging you to make an appointment to come in to discuss your overdraft? Don't laugh because I suspect there's more than one company waiting for these charges to become 'the norm'
Many companies would love to put these costs onto the customer, thankfully most of them are more customer orientated that Robbingair. If they are so certain the 'hidden' charges are justifiable and accepted by their customers why not add them all on at the start (using stats from their reserach to see average number of bags etc) then let us, the customer get great satisfaction knocking them all off one by one! At least Sleazyjet does do this with it's travel insurance and it gives me great satisfaction taking it back off.
I'm in the aircraft business so I am happy to see Mr O'L buying more aircraft, but I think it won't be long before he does a 'Ratner' and we all get fed up with being treated (at least by the website designers) like a cash cow for forgetting a tiny peice of the jigsaw such as a boarding pass etc, and then we all decide that actually we would be prepared to pay more for some, or in Robbingair's case any sort of, service.
As for people in Ireland just laughing at the latest trick to exploit travellers using his immoral business, I suspect they are just pleased to have a 'local lad done good'.
If Robbingair are that confident customers are satisfied with the level of service they received consider this.
Any business operating on the internet (I'm guessing but I suspect more than 99% of Robingairs business is done this way) it is the law that they must have an email address where customers can contact them. Robbingair does not provide email addresses for customers to contact them.
They consider themselves to be above this law. The lawmakers are so scared of this big immoral business it lets them get away with it.
Money talks, one law for them, one law for the rest of us.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| oldsnowy wrote: |
| Any business operating on the internet (I'm guessing but I suspect more than 99% of Robingairs business is done this way) it is the law that they must have an email address where customers can contact them. |
Which Act (law) is that ?
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I just look forward to when airlines have to pay the correct price for fuel and the little leprechaun ends up selling Big Issue outside pubs in Temple Bar 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| stanton wrote: |
alex_heney,
..? |
What are you questioning?
I honestly have no idea even which of my posts you may be responding to, never mind what it is wihin that post taht you are querying.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Fifespud wrote: |
If what the London Times printed was totally false or even fabricated, would they not have had to print a correction?
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Probably.
But if you actually read it properly, it was saying very little in actual fact.
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| oldsnowy wrote: |
Problems with Ryanair's business model? If you're one of those people who DO like them (I will use them only if there is no other choice at all within reasonable cost) then good for you because there are many other businesses out there who would like to emulate that exact business model.
So how would you feel when in the future you go into Tesco, pay £5 for booking in /parking in their car park to spend your money in their shop? Or maybe you'll be happy to pay an extra £5 to use a basket? Fast lane - £10? Cashback - £5? Self service till - £5? Delicatesaan counter as opposed to pre-packaged - £10? Ask a 'colleague' where an item is located in the store - £1?
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Completely and utterly different business, with completely different charging models everywhere.
It won't happen.
Although of course, you are charged for all those things, but it is just hidden in the overall markup on the products you buy.
Which is a little less honest than just charging you for the things you use, rather than charging everybody a supplement for the things some people use.
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Where do you think this business model will end, your bank charging you to make an appointment to come in to discuss your overdraft? Don't laugh because I suspect there's more than one company waiting for these charges to become 'the norm'
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Different businesses, different business models.
The banks have tried charging you to take your own money out, and then reverted, because it didn't work in that business.
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Many companies would love to put these costs onto the customer,
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ALL companies do so, not just "would love to". Otherwise they go bust.
It is just that in most business sectors, the norm is to average out those costs, and then add them to the charge for everybody.
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thankfully most of them are more customer orientated that Robbingair. If they are so certain the 'hidden' charges are justifiable and accepted by their customers why not add them all on at the start (using stats from their reserach to see average number of bags etc) then let us, the customer get great satisfaction knocking them all off one by one! At least Sleazyjet does do this with it's travel insurance and it gives me great satisfaction taking it back off.
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I would prefer to see the charges put on, then removed (although then how many bags do you put on, which CC charge do you put on, etc.)
But that is a purely cosmetic thing, TBH.
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If Robbingair are that confident customers are satisfied with the level of service they received consider this.
Any business operating on the internet (I'm guessing but I suspect more than 99% of Robingairs business is done this way) it is the law that they must have an email address where customers can contact them. Robbingair does not provide email addresses for customers to contact them.
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What law is that?
There may be one, but I am not aware of any such law. There is one relating to providers of electronic services, such as ISPs, but I don't know which law might require it of businesses providing non-internet services that happen to be ordered and paid for over the internet.
I am NOT saying there is no such law, just asking you which one it is (and just in case anybody might be confused, I am not a lawyer)
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They consider themselves to be above this law. The lawmakers are so scared of this big immoral business it lets them get away with it.
Money talks, one law for them, one law for the rest of us. |
Rubbish.
There is not the slightest shadow of evidence anywhere that any lawmakers (or more pertinently law enforcers) are in any way "scared" of Ryanair.
One thing they are generally pretty careful of is to stay within the law. Because they know that they are intensely disliked by mnay much larger businesses, and that transgressions would soon be pointed out by those larger businesses, and acted on.
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You know it makes sense.
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I suppose it's ultimately 'horses for courses'. If you can afford not to be treated like cattle you do so, if not, you put-up with Ryanair. I'm not sure though, why those that choose to travel with Ryanair choose to defend every less than complementary comment so vehemently. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Mollerski wrote: |
| I suppose it's ultimately 'horses for courses'. If you can afford not to be treated like cattle you do so, if not, you put-up with Ryanair. I'm not sure though, why those that choose to travel with Ryanair choose to defend every less than complementary comment so vehemently. |
I'm not sure everybody defending Ryanair is somebody who chooses to travel with them (I have done so ONCE, and I don't rule out doing so again, but it certainly has not been a regular occurrence).
I'm not sure why people find it necessary to complain so vehemently about them.
If you don't like their practices, don't use them.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Mollerski, cattle? I think that is quite offensive to be honest. I don't get the choice to choose otherwise, and I've not been treated like cattle on a Ryanair flight. I don't pretend to like Ryanairs business model, but I don't like Tesco's business model either, both are successful. Ryanair,and Easyjet, (much like my local bus company) , get me from A to B. I can also go there by car. Other airlines get me from A to B, but I have to go via C, and hang around for several hours. The business model might be shite, but I would still choose a direct route from A to B.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Helen Beaumont You choose to fly Ryanair and put-up with crappy practises. You cannot be so skint as to have no choice, otherwise you wouldn't be flying or skiing at all. Let's be honest, most of the time, the monetary difference between the budget airlines is minimal.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Mollerski, if I want to ski, and I need to fly, I have to either use a no-frills airline or drive.It isn't a choice of affordibility, but of my location in the UK.
As we are in NE England, we are at least 5 hours drive from the channel, and if we are going for less than 2 weeks, it is more convenient to fly. We normally avoid flying, but there are occasions, such as when we go to the EOSB when it is unavoidable. Flybe add ridiculous charges onto the cost of the flights too.
I can use BA, but need to fly via Heathrow, and you would be surprised at the difference in price between that option and a budget airline flight to Geneva from a local airport. The price differnece in not minimal. I would also have to hang around Heathrow for several hours to get my flight, and they don't even fly from Heathrow to my choice of airport (Turin), that one goes from Gatwick, and BA stopped doing NCL to Gatwick years ago. If i was dissatisfied with the service from RA, or from EJ, I wouldn't use them.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Mollerski, Actually Ryanair fly some summer routes that others do not. For a bit of Italy I go to frequently they offer London > Forli, Rimini and Ancona.
alex_heney, Ryanair and the law... I have heard people who should know say they think that the relationship between Ryanair and the aviation regulator in Ireland is a bit too close - and the Irish aviation sector too dependent on MO'L for the best regulatory relationship to exist. Having said which they fly modern planes, and their pilots get plenty of practice at landing at out-of-the-way airfields with short runways...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Mollerski, I don't 'put-up' with crappy practices either, I know exactly what to expect from them. I pay for a ticket to get me where I want to go, if they get me there,hassle-free andd at the right time, they have done their job. I don't want champagne, oysters, or more likely overcooked dried out meals or even free wine.
My worst ever flight experience was with BA. Vancouver to Newcastle via Heathrow. Check in at Vancouver messed up our Heathrow connection to Newcastle, and we ended up with an un-necessary 6 hour wait in Heathrow after a cramped overnight flight that didn't have enough food for all the passengers.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| alex_heney wrote: |
| If you don't like their practices, don't use them. |
True. I do wonder though how many of these addon charges and other practices we now see on other budget (and non-budget) airlines were instigated by them and adopted by the rest.
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| narc wrote: |
| alex_heney wrote: |
| If you don't like their practices, don't use them. |
True. I do wonder though how many of these addon charges and other practices we now see on other budget (and non-budget) airlines were instigated by them and adopted by the rest. |
Quite possibly. And if so, presumably because other airlines saw a good business model?
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| Quote: |
I sometimes wonder if I fly with the same airline as the one that gets this kind of comment. I guess I fly with Ryanair some 20 times a year and have never found it a "horrible experience" and wonder what forms this horrible experience takes. As for being treated like poo-poo by the staff, I have never encountered anything other than reasonable to good service and courtesy. Strange how perceptions can differ.
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Snap. I have never experienced any problems and use them regularly. I've learnt the rules and almost always book tax inclusive prices so I pay the rock bottom offer price because I have an electron card. I'm probably Ryanair's worst customer as I only buy the occasional hot chocolate. I fly from a regional airport close to home and it's like catching a coach. I have a feeling it won't last but am enjoying the opportunity to fly frequently on cheap flights while it does.
Last weekend though I had a horrible experience with the security chappie at the airport. He asked about liquids and I showed him my see-through plastic sandwich bag with top seal. He told me it was too big (by about an inch all round!!!). I thought he was joking but he made it clear he wasn't so I had to buy one of those round ball things with two plastic bags inside for £1. I didn't follow the rules!!! Where will it end?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| ccl wrote: |
| I sometimes wonder if I fly with the same airline as the one that gets this kind of comment. I guess I fly with Ryanair some 20 times a year and have never found it a "horrible experience" and wonder what forms this horrible experience takes. As for being treated like poo-poo by the staff, I have never encountered anything other than reasonable to good service and courtesy. Strange how perceptions can differ. |
Snap again.
I also fly about 20 times a year with Ryanair and have never had a serious delay or problem having paid anything between 1p and £50 for a flight, including taxes. Yes they have cancelled some of the flights that I booked at £1 and £5 but it was well in advance and they automatically refunded the charges without any prompting. I recently flew to Lyon on BA and, to be honest, I could not really see the difference. A free newspaper, a free chicken sandwich and drink is not worth much for me, especially as I normally try and sleep all the way.
My son has also used Ryanair extensively this year to get around europe to compete in mountain biking competitions. The extra £40 they charge for carrying his 32kg bike box and 15kg bag is totally reasonable I think. They always got him there and he won the Junior Title in the Maxiavalanche Europ Cup 2 weeks ago. Funding participation in that sort of competition would have been unthinkable for an ordinary 17 year old before the low cost airlines came along.
To start another issue, I think many problems are caused by bad management at the airports themselves rather than the actual carriers. The organisation of some of the security seems to be to be bizarre and leaves you thinking afterwards "what on earth was the point of that"
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| skitow wrote: |
| ...... I recently flew to Lyon on BA and, to be honest, I could not really see the difference. A free newspaper, a free chicken sandwich and drink is not worth much for me, especially as I normally try and sleep all the way.... |
Maybe it is worth adding that the paper sandwich and drink are not free - their cost is built into your ticket price. I much prefer to have the choice of paying for a coffee or doing without.
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FAQ
Still up and running and awaiting further sexist comments 