 Poster: A snowHead
|
andy david, welcome to snowHeads.
parlor, as a father I can tell you, you do get defensive when someone dis's your baby. I'm sure the post wasn't meant to do anything but set the record straight.
Imo fwiw: Loads of car manufacturers share platforms and yet produce very different end products of varying quality. If the Stormforce Pro has won Freeski of the year in the Daily Mail then Storm are clearly making a quality product, and like Dot. I rate them as nice people after meeting them at ISPO.
Having all your own moulds is a huge investment for a small company, I should know I'm the one who has to manage Whitedot's finances. As andy david has said what goes into the mould is every bit as important as the shape of the ski, just a whole lot less visible to the casual observer.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
meandrew, the internet is a resource to find out what skis are out there. But, if you're going to buy, try and get the skis under your feet first. It's your opinion of a ski that really matters, not mine, or any other unknown bloke/blokess off the web.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
midgetbiker, I was looking at one model,and then noticed another brand that what looked like the exact same ski with the same branding logos Im not questioning the quality of either companies products only if they where the same,Not dis`sn anyones baby can understand its exspensive and its nice to know they aint the same but as a casual observer and purchaser of skis its clear as mud.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
midgetbiker, that the case to get the S and S on a test would be interesting take the branding off and test.As one is considerably pricer I would love to do that but as you will probably never in the world get sporten and storm skis in the same resort availible for test I only have the internet.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
meandrew, totally take your point about the perception (esp the logos), so that's one I'm sure Storm's Brand Manager will want to look at.
And i didn't mean to suggest you had a go at Storm's or Sporten's quality, just trying to empathise with an MD's desire to stand up for his product, given that parlor thought he came across as overly defensive.
Anyway, I seem to be upsetting folk, whilst fighting someone else's corner (a habit of mine). So I am bowing out and going to bed. Night all 
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Thu 3-03-11 0:19; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| meandrew wrote: |
| midgetbiker, that the case to get the S and S on a test would be interesting take the branding off and test.As one is considerably pricer I would love to do that but as you will probably never in the world get sporten and storm skis in the same resort availible for test I only have the internet. |
lots of mags & other organisations do exactly that sort of blind testing.
I just couldn't resist could I. Pathetic really (me that is).
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
none taken (ever)
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
andy david, Welcome to sHs. Given that anyone that's met you and Chris and had the opportunity to try your skis would be highly unlikely to think that Storm is just about badge engineering, I think your setting the record straight is fair play. It's a great achievement to get on the radar of the UK skiing mass market through your Daily Mail ranking.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
fatbob, and those that havent had the opportunity to meet them and try the ski`s might just think it is.Not having a go at your company Andy David and I am not talking trash I have removed my comments as you seem to be angry about being asked about your company products you use the same logos I and others will probably ask the same question if thats your response fair enough i would of thought getting rid of the confusion would be a better PR mission and not telling people off 
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
And yet another thread has descended into farce (and not deliberately this time).
Why oh Why have you meandrew removed your postings!
By my reading at no point did you trash the reputation of Storm skis. All you raised were pertinent issues ie if the specs, moulds and quoted technology between two skis are the same, is all the difference topsheet, marketing and price.
To me this forum is often about getting an education in snowsports and not just about manufactuers pimping their gear (if I want that I'd buy the DMS&SM) and that's exactly what your questions achieved.
Whilst welcoming andy david and thanking him/them for explaining about how their products differentiate from others constructed using the same moulds ,I agree with
| parlor wrote: |
| andy david ... I think your post was a little too defensive and comes off as a nasty post. |
| andy david wrote: |
.... with many people trying to beat up our reputation.
.... in this industry or in the production industry in general is this situation unique and worth all the negative chat?
|
I didn't see many people badmouthing your product, I did see one negative posting
| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| For what it maybe worth, we have 3 pairs in the Workshop, all with exploded sidewalls and delam' issues. The belong to a Rider who does put them through their paces, but none the less, we have a shed full of Riders skis and none of them have such major issues, so often. |
And it was balanced by the video footage and
| fatbob wrote: |
| SMALLZOOKEEPER, To be fair that's the sort of workout that would be difficult to pull a " I was just cruising along a blue run" warranty claim on. |
Finally again as stated
| parlor wrote: |
| andy david, Lighten up and join the team, it could be a great resource for Storm... |
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| midgetbiker wrote: |
| meandrew wrote: |
| midgetbiker, that the case to get the S and S on a test would be interesting take the branding off and test.As one is considerably pricer I would love to do that but as you will probably never in the world get sporten and storm skis in the same resort availible for test I only have the internet. |
lots of mags & other organisations do exactly that sort of blind testing.
|
Just curious do they??
Whenever magazines (DMS&SM, Falline, etc) show pictures of their testing, the topsheets aren't blacked out or covered over and
certainly pictures from the Snowsport Industry of GB testing in Bormio last year seem to show fully branded products.
Does anyone actually do blind testing?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I actually felt guillty for obviously rattling his cage about the use of another companies products and saying that they are their own if that is the way they roll ,furry muff.As for the testing I would love them to back up what they say by having a blacked out test as you defo wouldnt tell by looking at them as they use the same top sheet ,base ,sidewall,edges,shape dimensions so it would be a good test I reckon.The flayer from sporten is £320 the twistted sista is £590 £270 worth of difference I would love to know maybe DMS&SM could do the test on the full range they share a mold with and see if they are worth the difference or you can actually tell. and your right should have left the posts.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
meandrew, I think your posts could have stood just fine, and andy's articulately made his point too. I must confess I hadn't appreciated Sporten were producing a bunch of skis to the same dimensions as Storm products as previously I'd thought of them as lower end piste/affordable end of race skis offering. It would be interesting for someone to test them back to back long term of course as a consumer (as well as the short term test).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| betterinblack wrote: |
| midgetbiker wrote: |
| meandrew wrote: |
| midgetbiker, that the case to get the S and S on a test would be interesting take the branding off and test.As one is considerably pricer I would love to do that but as you will probably never in the world get sporten and storm skis in the same resort availible for test I only have the internet. |
lots of mags & other organisations do exactly that sort of blind testing.
|
Just curious do they??
Whenever magazines (DMS&SM, Falline, etc) show pictures of their testing, the topsheets aren't blacked out or covered over and
certainly pictures from the Snowsport Industry of GB testing in Bormio last year seem to show fully branded products.
Does anyone actually do blind testing? |
OK I may be exagerating with 'lots', but some do. For example http://www.worldskitest.com/en/
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Great to see some further comments and objective views on here now.
Forgive me if my last post came accross as a bit harsh or defensive but when you invest the time and enegry into the brand that I do it is a bit hard not to take things personally or not feel emotionally attched. So some of the suggestions being banded around naturally suprised me and got my back up.
Following an extremely busy few weeks of marketing and testing all of next years products perhaps it would be fare to say my comments could have come across a bit harsh! However Storm is my baby and so I will always fight tooth and nail to keep the brands image intact.
Having spent twenty years in this industry first as a athlete on the British team and then helping out working as a rider who was involved in the design process for a swiss ski manufacturing firm, I am quite used to having a critical eye cast over what I am doing, I have no issue with that.
As for sharing icons....yeap we have.... so could be missleading. I had super tight dealines to hit with the brochure and wedsite design and sometimes when you are totally short staffed and pressed for time it is easier to cut a few corners. Anyone who has seen Sporten skis will know all of our top sheets are different to theirs. There are well over 100 different textured top sheets designs out their and we have chosen ours as I belive they are to be one of the hardest wearing on the market....hence why other quality producing brands like Movement choose to use them. The silk art gloss finish versions just do not wear as well in my opinion but they do offer great wrack appeal as you will see from the likes of Scotts new range of products.... which look sick btw and which ride really well as we saw this last week while in Bormio on the SIGB skis test. It is a shame that we cannot get more people out their to test all the products back to back regardless of whether this is done in a blind fashion or not...as people should try and become better informed and have the chance to try before they buy.... rather then just going on the mag reviews which can be vary vague or biased depending on marketing spend.
This whole education process and company marketing and getting recognised can seem like a black hole to poor money into... hence why we have been forced to share some moulds. Without doing that we simply would not be able to attend such events and to start spreading the word about who we are and what our products are like.
As people rightly have said mould sharing goes on all over the industry even among very large brands who share the same factories. Lots of start ups even with huge finacial backing use mould sharing to bolster their range....look at what Corrupt did for example in their position when they launched at the same time as us in what was a media circus supported by huge names and mega bucks. Where were all of their so called pro model flag ship ski shapes coming from? I am not trying to pass the buck or be negative but raise the point and awarness that is goes on all the time and at in all factories. Whether that is the likes of Scott producing their skis in the Fischer factory or Armada now producing at Atomic....technolgy and other resources are shared in order to better the quality of the products... regardless of the name or badge on the skis.
We have had a few cases of delam or other bits go wrong with or skis as was pointed out but who doesn't in the start....but we have always been 110 percent fair, honest and supportive with any warrenty claims as those people will let you know.
Got to go now as product testing in Tignes today with our team riders and clients. Snow looks pretty sweeeeeeet ! Over and out!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
andy david, Point well made on the sharing of moulds! My Alfa Romeo GTV is built on the same floor pan as a Fiat Tipo but I don't think anyone would try to claim they are the same car!
Hope it isn't over and out for good, I'm sure you'd have loads of useful input here given your background and current activities!
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Sat 5-03-11 16:24; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Just returned off the hill from a long day with team and clients.
Seems like a lot of the new adaptive camber and rocker designs that Storm have been working on perform well in some of the tough variable snow types to be found around the Alps at the mo.
But don't take my word for it anyone in Tignes feel free to drop by Tignes Spirit to have a test on the skis in person. Its a cool new shop run by a young bunch of Brits who are making a cracking go of it despite some horrid and very direct racism they are getting from some of the yee oldie locals!
We had brutal testing conditions today with every type of snow you can imaging and a fair few rocks to jib off....ouch poor test skis got a pounding!
Off to Cham now tom and then Chatel for more team and client testing....here is hoping for more favourable skiing conditions.
Re the post about new skis we have 7 new skis due into the range for next year....but a 195 Sista is not one of them ....yet! We have several new shapes in early testing at this time which are of the Sista ilk....However these will not be seen or launched till Ispo next year at the earliest as there is way to much work needed on them still!
Re tests... Storm will have several dates lined up over the rest of this winter back in the UK. The next of which is at Cas on the 18th of March. We are attending the Storm event....with a name like that how could we not go! It would be great to get as many people there testing all the new toys from all the brands ....as with all the retail doom and gloom out there we all need to give the ski industry a bit of a positive lift and get enthused by testing some cool new gear! Any Snowheads there will be more then welcome and they will have the op to test most of our new range along with tones of other new kit! I am not going to bring all the super fat stuff as clearly there is no point in a fridge test.
I would love to try and put together a Brit brand test with Whitedot and Storm in attendance to try and create some postive vibes about what both of these small companies are trying to do despite these tough times. It would be brill to showcase the brands and show the Brit public that both brands have some really strong products in our line ups! For the first time ever as far as I am aware...eeer feel free to correct me if I am wrong ha ha....Britain has two home grown brands which can only be good for our sport and to fly the Brit skiing flag on all evels onto the international scene.
Over and out for now!!! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
Oops forgot to say in my previous posts what cracking good skis the Auroras are! Wouldn't fit in my bag to go on hols but have had a play at the Tamworth fridge and WOW, pretty much as fast and nimble in the turns as my speedwaves, good trick for a fairly wide all mountain ski put up against a dedicated piste ski. Hold the edge perfectly well on the hard packed Tamworth slope as well, would have no worry taking the storms anywhere my abilities will take me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I have a set of Storm Infernos and love them.
I trialled them in the fridge and saw enough to make me want to find a real demo location where I was again impressed; so I bought a pair.
They are excellent skis and well balanced with the Storm (Vist) bindings they came with.
I hope that the new line-up is as strong - the company have set thir bar quite high with their first efforts.
(For what it's worth, after you meet the chap who owns Storm you can't help but believe he's a skiier before he's a ski salesman - that works for me...)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
My Storm Rage skis are ace, and they've survived my lack of finesse well!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Andy David First of all let me say well done on the stormforce pro keep up the good work, I can totally agree with Andy on the point he made about start-up costs as md of antra custom ski I have gone through the same and let me add if I didn’t have a very well paid day job I couldn’t have done it, there is so much research and testing that is done before a ski can be put out to the public , In my case after they have been ski tested and deliberately battered about I cut them up to examine every part of them( destructive testing ) to make sure that everything had bonded if any of the materials didn’t they was replaced with others that could . There is a lot of dead money put into start up costs but it is something you have to do to get good skis. I think what Andy has done is create a brand and from what I have seen a very good brand for that he should be congratulated not rubbished it is hard enough out there without people doing that. I am doing much the same as Andy building a brand name but on a more personal level I only ever want to produce a limited amount of skis a year.
Keep up the good work Andy and don’t let em grind you down. Andy md of www.antracustomski.com
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Andy David First of all let me say well done on the stormforce pro keep up the good work, I can totally agree with Andy on the point he made about start-up costs as MD of antra custom ski I have gone through the same and let me add if I didn’t have a very well paid day job I couldn’t have done it, there is so much research and testing that is done before a ski can be put out to the public , In my case after they have been ski tested and deliberately battered about I cut them up to examine every part of them( destructive testing ) to make sure that everything had bonded if any of the materials didn’t they were replaced with others that could . There is a lot of dead money put into start up costs but it is something you have to do to get good skis. I think what Andy has done is create a brand and from what I have seen a very good brand for that he should be congratulated not rubbished it is hard enough out there without people doing that. I am doing much the same as Andy building a brand name but on a more personal level I only ever want to produce a limited amount of skis a year.
Keep up the good work Andy and don’t let em grind you down. Andy MD of www.antracustomski.com
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I have ski tested Storm and found them to be very good match for my (lack of) style. When My Recons eventually give up(which I though would have been last season but I think I will get another out of them), I will look very closely at Storm.
On a side note, If the storm guys can answer - Is Tignes the only place in France I can get them? I'm going to be based in La Ros for the season again. I did look at your website but there is far to much Flash on it(I'm no fan of Flash based sites) and are you going be at the NEC ski show this year?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
[quote="Dwarf Vader"]I have ski tested Storm and found them to be very good match for my (lack of) style
| Quote: |
does that make it a good ski then  |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
[quote="meandrew"]
| Dwarf Vader wrote: |
I have ski tested Storm and found them to be very good match for my (lack of) style
| Quote: |
| does that make it a good ski then |
|
Very good to cope with it. I found they give you good feed back and like to be skied hard.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
.Dwarf Vader, have you had a look at the flea bay offers I wasnt being sarcastic Im really tempted but I just dont need any new skis but they do look like really good bargins for someone
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
meandrew, I'm going to have a look this afternoon but I am hopeing my recons have another season in them..
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
The Strike is to gnarly for me I would more prefer the Inferno (which I think is one I tested) but a little to short for me, I tend to ski long. But they are bargains for sure. Thanks for the links
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
My eldest junior is more than happy with her Storm Race Carve and Storm Rage skis.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| ansta1 wrote: |
My eldest junior is more than happy with her Storm Race Carve and Storm Rage skis.
|
Excellent taste in skis! Those are my fast piste and go anywhere skis as well (have got a pair of Crossfires ski cross / GS ish Storms as well) due to Rule 3
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
no offense 
I wonder if they could do a test for sporten and storm.I am going to get in touch with them and see if they would take such a test on. 
