 Poster: A snowHead
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There was a thread recently trying to sort out the situation where it is supposedly illegal to ski off piste in Italy. I and two buddies had the misfortune to fall foul of that confused situation a couple of weeks ago at Alba in the Dolomites. As some will know, the local Polezia perform Pisteur duties in Italy.
We were "arrested", had our tickets confiscated and followed the two coppers to their office a 15 minute lift, a schuss and a snowmobile ride away. There we were treated with typical police brutality which involved being force fed several excellent chocolates, undergoing multiple smiling handshakes while being cruelly subjected to 90 minutes of tedious form filling, a E30 fine each, had our tickets returned and then let loose to wreak havoc upon an unsuspecting public once again.
That, combined with subsequent side of the mouth comments from the locals who had full grandstand views of the whole malarkey, made us feel like sulky, 17-year-old juvenile delinquents instead of three middle-aged bozos desperately trying to appear contrite and chastened. (I'd pay a lot more than E30 to feel 17 again!!!)
When we subsequently told our guide (hired a couple of days after above incident, I hasten to add) Francesco, fresh from hosting the sHs BB at Arabba, he was a bit unhappy with our treatement in his home hills but nevertheless said our crime had been to go off piste close to a lift and piste which is what makes the authorities so nervous and trigger happy.
I noticed subsequently when we did a long itinerary with him that when we re-joined the piste over towards Arabba and not a long way from a lift station, we did so hidden by gullies and trees.
(In our defence: It was a lovely little bowl sending out an alluring siren call all morning on a bluebird day and only 15 minutes walk up a ridge from the lift. There were some tracks already in it but plenty of room for more. It was not at all steep nor loaded. Avy risk for the general area was 3 to 4 ( the coppers said 4 to 5 to us; for dramatic effect, I reckon) although on this particular slope, my estimate was about 1. There was a terrain trap gully at the bottom but plenty of room for a Plan B bail out plus the gully protected the lift pylons. I'm 100% sure we did not breach any avy risk but rather bureaucratic rules).
It was a wonderful 30 or so turns... 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I did some off piste in the Marmolada area with Da Admin on a previous bash...and have been wondering about the official rules. (but I assume the Italians have a flexible approach to rules).
Btw, Avalanche risk 3 would have me thinking twice...and 4 is a no-go for me. I am still learning, but how did you come to risk 1 ? I have got hold of a couple of apps for my Android phone, one for Austria and one for Switzerland - very useful. I had a bit of a look, but I couldn't find one for Italy or France.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Were you identifiably tourists, I wonder?
I once had my car, German but with UK plates, pulled out of a long line of cars, all travelling necessarily at the same time, by the Italian rozzers. I was driving at the same speed as everyone else, but I was the only car with none-Italian places.
Just thinking that maybe your crime was related to that.
Still, I've been arrested numerous times by border police and various other groups here and there. Maybe it's my age or my legal team, or maybe they're just nice people, but they've always been pleasant. I am careful not to snigger. And before anyone goes on about it, I'd not ride on closed terrain where I could potentially bring a slide down on anyone else, that's never been the issue.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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So "techincally" can you not ski off piste at all in Italy without a guide? I did not know that. I will avoid Italy then.....
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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BMG, I think there are regional differences, so what is allowed in Dolomites might be illegal in Piemonte and vice-versa. In some areas it is legal but only if you are carrying avvy transceiver, shovel and probe. There's another thread here
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I've never skied in Italy. Doesn't sound like there is much attraction. The
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There are different rules in different regions. In the Dolomites I think offpiste is banned unless you are with a guide. In Piedmont you are allowed to do whatever you want to do, but you need to have a tranceiver etc when heading offpiste. You can get a fine for not having the proper equipment. Some of the best offpiste in Europe can be found in Piedmont and the Aosta valley.
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Anyone know if it applies in Aosta?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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jbob, Aosta is in Piedmont.
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jbob, Hells Bells, Aosta is a region in it's own right. No off piste restrictions that I'm aware of unless they have been introduced very recently. However I'm pretty sure that Piedmont has the safety equipment regs Hells Bells mentions.
Worth bearing in mind if you are skiing from Gressoney over to Alagna.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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AndAnotherThing.., oops sorry, Italian geography is not my strong point.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Hells Bells, Bit like my French !
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Wow. The Dolomites are quite the loveliest of skiing area I have been to. As it happened for various reasons I stayed on piste during the Birthday Bash, but there were times when I was skiing at the B B with avi kit - and could have been tempted for a bit of gentle off-piste if a like-minded mate had popped up. I've suggested to admin that f there really is a ban, it might be an idea to make that clear to next year's punters.
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You know it makes sense.
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I was in Gressony at the end of Jan, for a week off piste skiing. We were with a guide, but plenty of people enjoying the off piste without, and didn't see any heavy handed antics by the authorities (apart from being chased off the mountain by the pisteurs at the end of a couple days, but that was because they probably wanted to get home!)
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Got shouted at in La Thuile when staying in Tignes Le Brev 5-6 years ago by some locals, got bored in La Rosiere and had heard good things about La Thuile. Was only 30m off the piste making fresh S's and you'd have thought I'd set off a major avalanche on top of a bunch of 10 year old school-kids the way the locals were belly-aching. Then I looked and there wasnt a off-piste track anywhere, went for a pizza instead of skiing all those cruisy blues. What a waste.
Never been to Italy since, nor have plans to.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Markymark29, Strange - there are some excellent lines in La Thuile. They were probably trying to save the pow for themselves 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I agree 4 is kinda high to be off-piste without a guide. That's when things you think aren't steep enough to slide may slide. Probably important for pisteurs/police to keep skiers off any off-piste where an avalanche could possibly endanger anyone else below
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I suppose one big advantage of keeping holiday punters from going off piste into tempting bowls on their own, apart from any consideration of safety, is that it must leave much better conditions for those groups willing to pay for a guide. It kind of makes sense.
One reason to know the local rules, apart from the €30 fines and being force-fed chocolates is that if you had an accident whilst inadvertently skiing off piste in a manner prohibited locally your insurance company could legitimately wash their hands of you. Wouldn't have to be an avalanche. A bust ACL a long way from anywhere could cost a lot.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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We've had snowHeads 'told off' before in Alba, on more than one occasion.
There's a lovely area of gentle and typically untracked terrain in perfect view of the first chair up - unfortunately, it's also in perfect view of the Police hut, just down the hill.
That's the only spot though where I've heard of people getting their 'collar felt'.
It would be good to get clarification on this though. We nailed some fantastic routes with Francesco at the S9BB and even though I wouldn't attempt most them unguided, one or two maybe... in fact one (of the less adventurous ones) I had already found for myself the previous year. I hope I wasn't being bad 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'm fascinated by this thread. We've just returned from San Cassiano and noticed everywhere the beautiful untracked powder, wondering why on earth it hadn't been skied. We took a couple of minor turns off the edges of pistes but didn't have a guide and are too new to powder to do much by ourselves.
The thing that concerns me is that at no time did we see any warning or information about a general ban on off-piste skiing - though we did see the odd "no off piste here"-type sign in Italian and German. Nobody told us anything about off-piste limitations - not the TO, not the hotel, not the ski hire people. How is anyone supposed to know that this (possible?) ban exists?
We did see a pair of skiers bunny-hopping down a very steep ski-lift route beneath us in new, 40cm powder, and there were plenty of tracks on the ski-lift routes and near some of the pistes (where we had our few turns), but most of the landscape seemed untouched. (This might be heresy, btw, but it did look a lot more stunning as a result!)
V
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Interested if anyone can find any hard information about a Trentino h.p. ban. I can't and I have looked around quite a bit.
Piedmonte certainly has mandates that you must be avvy equipped if you are h.p. And, for instance, you won't be allowed up the new Punta Indren lift above Gressoney (no pistes from it, all "off piste" although the bumps looked nice  a couple of weeks ago) (nb we tried and were turned away).
I am wondring whether Big Paua, had inadvertently strayed onto a patch of terrain that is protected as natural reserve?
I would be most surprised (in my Pedantic fashion) if h.p. was banned in the Dolomites, them not being a region as such...
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| admin wrote: |
| We nailed some fantastic routes with Francesco at the S9BB |
... and on the way back in the afternoon I remember him pointing out how many people had come down the routes we had done in the morning underneath the Padon chair. Can't believe they were all with guides.
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Violette, sometimes no-one's tracked it because they know it's not safe to ski it...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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When I was in Madonna in February I spoke to WAYNE, before he became persona non gratis here, about this and he commented that you need to keep away from the lift stations but "everyone" ignores the rules, but I bet it's easier to in an instructors uniform![/b]
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| Quote: |
you need to keep away from the lift stations but "everyone" ignores the rules
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but then you'd feel exceedingly foolish if a small and unspectacular fall ruptured an ACL, wouldn't you?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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pam w, I wasn't commenting on the sensibility of skiing off piste just what had been related to me a few weeks ago
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I have done 3 holidays skiing off piste in the Dolomites (there have been TRs by other people about it) and there is a book describing the off piste routes. Alagna/Gressoney is a another classic off piste area with a book about the off-piste routes (for a long time Alagna had no pistes and it is often compared to La Grave).
There are, indeed, 2 signs close to Arabba on the Sella Ronda route (not the Marmolada side) which said No Off Piste but it was never clear where it applied or didn't.
Perhaps I should email the author of the Dolomites off piste book (who is a guide I once contacted before) and ask him.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Fri 29-03-13 11:11; edited 1 time in total
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I had this answer from the guide:
Hi David,
this is a long discussion...
I can only say that one thing are the laws and a completly different one is the way they are applied (by polizia, carabinieri, forestale...).
1. offpiste skiing is not forbidden by law in Italy
2. in some places there are some restrictions
3. if you start an avalanche you can have big troubles
In general if you ski away from the pistes the are no problems (for example the itineraries on Sella group here in the Dolomites), but if you ski close (above) to the pistes it could be different. Normally they just stop you to explain that is not allowed to ski offpiste in the ski area, but of course when the avalanche risk is high, or after some accidents, there's a bit of tension...
This season I already skied more than 100 days, 99% offpiste and never had a problem, but I prefer to ski far away from the lifts (where there are no tracks!)
Ciao,
Francesco
Francesco Tremolada
UIAGM/IFMGA Mountain and ski Guide
Professional Photographer
_________________________
http://www.proguide.it
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