Is the Snow Center level 6 still Early Intermediate? I would kind of be expecting that to require a BASI Level 2 instructor.
Yes I would say Early Intermediate.
Early development of acquired parallel skiing, shorts, longs and the various elements. This is the early development phase & so learners are likely to have 0-2 wks skiing experience. A lot depends on the amount/quality of previous tuition & the individuals attitude/aspirations.
Believe it or not, some L1's at Hemel are more experienced eg:hrs teaching than some L2's. Certainly those that are putting in the hrs, as opposed to a L2 who qualified some time ago, who rostas on for a couple of lessons now & then during the summer & does a stint with Interski at half term during the season. No disrespect to any L2s who fit that bill. Good on ya
The Snow Centre's Level 6 Ski Lesson from thesnowcentre
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Thu 13-11-14 20:04; edited 4 times in total
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
altis wrote:
I'm just wondering what Adult Apres is!
It's a 2hr adult group lesson + 30 mins feedback/debrief in the bar with your instructor & free drink (quite popular, as all group levels 1-6 run simultaneously, so friends etc of different levels still get to have a session at the same time & see each other on the slope)
"Youth Group Sledging 1 hr " - counts as shadowing?? Shurely shome mishtake...
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@under a new name, This aint shadowing. It's work. Quite hard work actually. lol
But if it was the answer is yes. It qualifies as Ski School experience as do some other aspects eg issuing skis & boots etc (although I never done that, all my shadowing was lessons). Sledging at least has an element of slope safety & group management about it & can include those nutty snow scooter things.
@under a new name, This aint shadowing. It's work. Quite hard work actually. lol
But if it was the answer is yes. It qualifies as Ski School experience as do some other aspects eg issuing skis & boots etc (although I never done that, all my shadowing was lessons). Sledging at least has an element of slope safety & group management about it & can include those nutty snow scooter things.
I noticed that and did have to think about it. However as FC points out, whilst not skiing tuition, it's still safety, communication and people management which is after all a key part of being a teacher of any subject. Not sure if it should count directly 1 to 1 as part of shadowing hours, and perhaps investigation should be done as to separating the elements of being a rounded instructor into parts in terms of the shadowing.
NB. This may already be a factor, as I am not an instructor or anywhere near the standard i don't know if this is already factored in.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@ansta1, Hello Mate
I think you're right. BASI dont ask for specific details of what you did during the hours you have shadowed. They rely on the Head of Snow School to ensure they were appropriate.
Most if not all the shadowing I've witnessed at Hemel has been lesson based.
I've been shadowed numerous times now by L1 aspirants, theyve all preferred to be out on the slope than behind a counter. No surprise there.
Personally I kept a record of my shadowing hours and the groups and levels. But the BASI sheet just has hours and with who, not what.
Room for improvement I wager.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Quote:
Yes I would say Early Intermediate.
OK. That's good. As long as you're happy to be doing it and the outcome was good then all is well.
I agree completely about the level of teaching being highly variable. I remember I booked myself onto one of the snow centre advanced courses a few years back. I think it supposed to be 5 morning sessions of 2 hours, once a week. The first one there were only 3 of us in the group and we were doing short turns. I was thinking what a great opportunity to get some good coaching but all the instructor did was have us cycling around and all he ever said to me was 'Lower, faster' and then after a few times 'Yeah, you can do it.' He spent the rest of the time chatting to his mate, who was probably shadowing.
Needless to say I cancelled the rest of the course and haven't gone near the snow centre for lessons since.
I have used Inside Out though. A completely different experience.
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A lot of beginners turn up on a Level 3 or 4 lesson and can't hold their snow plough, and we spend the hour basically starting from scratch, so I'd take the L6 with a pinch of salt
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Unabashedly bumped!! but.....Well worth a watch
Orgasmic.......
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@olderscot, unfortunately not the whole season.
The accommodation is at my disposal but something has come up
preventing me buggering awf for the whole 5months as planned.
So will be snatching weeks away between hospital visits.
I may get down for a month or so later in the season.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@franzClammer, enjoy. Make sure you post some footage.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@franzClammer, sounds ominous; I hope things wrt hospitals work out well.
I am looking forward to seeing you relaxed and happy on the pistes.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@franzClammer,
That clip demonstrating level 6 skiing (sorry I realise that was 3 weeks ago) - was that a level 6 skier demoing their best skiing or a higher level skier "skiing down" to demonstrate level 6 techniques? The reason I ask is that the smoothness and "feel" looked like they were capable of skiing in a more technical fashion (greater separation, angulation, etc). If I am right then the clip is a bit misleading - I'd expect an intermediate to be able to deploy those techniques but not deploy them that consistently and comfortably. And someone with that level of proficiency to be practicing more advanced techniques less proficiently IYSWIM.
I'm not an instructor though...
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Yes, hospital trips do sound ominous. Sorry to hear it's buggered your plans. I hope it all works out OK.
I also hope it starts snowing soon. I see the cannons are now running on the Meribel slopes but it's going to take them quite a while to get some decent snow cover on the pistes.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
jedster wrote:
That clip demonstrating level 6 skiing (sorry I realise that was 3 weeks ago) - was that a level 6 skier demoing their best skiing or a higher level skier "skiing down" to demonstrate level 6 techniques?
It's a higher level skier, "skiing down". I agree that it's difficult for a good skier to 'dumb down' their skiing and make it look like an inexperienced skier.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@rob@rar, if you ever need a stand-in for a low level skier, I can do that (as Yosser Hughes used to say...)
Most ski schools which have videos to illustrate levels seem to use instructors dumbing down, but there are exceptions that use real skiers
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
rob@rar wrote:
jedster wrote:
That clip demonstrating level 6 skiing (sorry I realise that was 3 weeks ago) - was that a level 6 skier demoing their best skiing or a higher level skier "skiing down" to demonstrate level 6 techniques?
It's a higher level skier, "skiing down". I agree that it's difficult for a good skier to 'dumb down' their skiing and make it look like an inexperienced skier.
Thanks for your concerns guys.
Here's a little bit of recent footage of messing about at Hemel. Not the best skiing, but I'm using it as a bit of a benchmark before I have my 8 days in 3Vs.
I'm confident that there will be enough snow on the pistes to get a bit of footage at least. So lets see what 8 days on the groomers n variable produces.
At the mo it looks like a daily drive up to VT might be on the cards
I've a new little handycam to try out in resort, perhaps setting the exposure to "snow" was a little optimistic.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Not too sure about your new exercise to develop separation that you demonstrated near the end.
Hope you have a great time with lots of snow you jammy g*t
After all it is free
After all it is free
It's a great exercise. Near perfect demonstration. I find it a great way to loosen up the muscles and usually end up going back to it at least once a trip.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@franzClammer = Sgt Stork Drill Instructor
About time you tried turns on one ski only
(excellent to improve balance...or so I hear)
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
jedster wrote:
@franzClammer,
That clip demonstrating level 6 skiing (sorry I realise that was 3 weeks ago) - was that a level 6 skier demoing their best skiing or a higher level skier "skiing down" to demonstrate level 6 techniques? The reason I ask is that the smoothness and "feel" looked like they were capable of skiing in a more technical fashion (greater separation, angulation, etc). If I am right then the clip is a bit misleading - I'd expect an intermediate to be able to deploy those techniques but not deploy them that consistently and comfortably. And someone with that level of proficiency to be practicing more advanced techniques less proficiently IYSWIM.
I'm not an instructor though...
Agreed. If that's early intermediate skiing, I'm a banana.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
franzClammer wrote:
Thanks for your concerns guys.
Here's a little bit of recent footage of messing about at Hemel. Not the best skiing, but I'm using it as a bit of a benchmark before I have my 8 days in 3Vs.
I'm confident that there will be enough snow on the pistes to get a bit of footage at least. So lets see what 8 days on the groomers n variable produces.
At the mo it looks like a daily drive up to VT might be on the cards
I've a new little handycam to try out in resort, perhaps setting the exposure to "snow" was a little optimistic.
Your 'go to move' to initiate a turn is a narrowing of your stance width by sliding your uphill ski closer to your downhill ski - primarily in the tail - and then pivotting and/or edging off that narrower platform.
I believe you should place more balance on a flatter downhill ski at turn initiation whilst trying to maintain a consistent stance width throughout the turn shape.
Here's my latest 'never ever' showing what I mean on his first day on skis.
When you're out in the 3Vs see if you can do what James is trying to do in the above vid.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
James is doing very well there Mike!! I'm sure you'll have a good time in the 3V@franzClammer, looks like they are opening more and more terrain....
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Yeah he did very well.
A few tumbles on the steeper sections of the green run where he banked on the inside and tried to turn too quickly to shut down the acceleration.
We were both very happy, and he's jazzed to get back on snow next day off.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Wax off Wax on
Nearly ready
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@Mike Pow, Thats an interesting video, James looks great. What do you do with first time skiers who wouldn't be comfortable going as fast as that? I think you have said you don't teach snowplough before so how would you enable a more cautious skier to control their speed without making horrible Z turns?
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hi Mike
Good to hear from you
Mike Pow wrote:
Your 'go to move' to initiate a turn is a narrowing of your stance width by sliding your uphill ski closer to your downhill ski - primarily in the tail - and then pivotting and/or edging off that narrower platform..
Perhaps, at times.
Mike Pow wrote:
I believe you should place more balance on a flatter downhill ski at turn initiation whilst trying to maintain a consistent stance width throughout the turn shape.
.
I seem to have been trying this ^ at least since my BASI L1, and I agree this is an essential skill to have, especially if creating pivoted turns. But when blending the steering elements during a series of grippy turns, I do need to improve the action that you describe. But also to produce the outcome I desire eg stay parallel/consistent stance width through feeling what's required & responding. Whilst skiing freely I'm looking for a functional response to the terrain & then I feel that balancing/edging are best initiated simultaneously otherwise the period spent getting up onto the flattened o/s ski inhibits a natural flow, & the flexion & extension can stall mid flow. I respect your expertise, and agree it all needs work, I just don't think my problems are fixable with one focus i.e maintain a flat o/s ski in every turn regardless
Mike Pow wrote:
Here's my latest 'never ever' showing what I mean on his first day on skis.
When you're out in the 3Vs see if you can do what James is trying to do in the above vid.
With regard the Ploughless-staight to parallel teaching...... I take it you're working in in Japan?
Is your approach to get them sliding and to correct posture later or as you go?
My approach currently is to start them off with as close to correct posture as possible, then to work through layering on the fundamentals.
The plough seems the ideal vehicle for this. But then I am restricted to the singularly slightly too steep-for-beginners Hemel slope.
To be able to pick a piste that suits my learner's level is a bit of a dream situ for moi (distant violins)
I wondered what your thoughts are on the CT & the plough? Do you revert to these ever?
Cheers
Right.... on with the packing
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
lynseyf wrote:
@Mike Pow, Thats an interesting video, James looks great. What do you do with first time skiers who wouldn't be comfortable going as fast as that? I think you have said you don't teach snowplough before so how would you enable a more cautious skier to control their speed without making horrible Z turns?
Thanks. Will pass that on to James.
You're correct, I don't teach the snowplough.
I teach my students to manage the acceleration that results from momentarily skiing the fall line by continuing to turn both skis across and back up the the slope in a curve until they either come to a stop or decelerate enough to feel comfortable to let both skis move back into the fall line to initiate the next turn.
The first time that my students ski down a slope with both skis on I ask them to hold a pole horizontally in front of them as if they're pushing a shopping trolley and I hold the end of the pole and act as the 'governor' controlling their acceleration and speed. And aiding with balance.
Much in the same way as an adult would hold a child's bicycle seat when the child is learning to ride.
I'd do this until the student and I felt comfortable for me to let go and they can control their descent by shaping their skis.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
franzClammer wrote:
Mike Pow wrote:
I believe you should place more balance on a flatter downhill ski at turn initiation whilst trying to maintain a consistent stance width throughout the turn shape.
.
I seem to have been trying this ^ at least since my BASI L1, and I agree this is an essential skill to have, especially if creating pivoted turns. But when blending the steering elements during a series of grippy turns, I do need to improve the action that you describe. But also to produce the outcome I desire eg stay parallel/consistent stance width through feeling what's required & responding. Whilst skiing freely I'm looking for a functional response to the terrain & then I feel that balancing/edging are best initiated simultaneously otherwise the period spent getting up onto the flattened o/s ski inhibits a natural flow, & the flexion & extension can stall mid flow. I respect your expertise, and agree it all needs work, I just don't think my problems are fixable with one focus i.e maintain a flat o/s ski in every turn regardless
There is a cause & effect with your skiing which is fixable with one focus IMHO.
You're too forward in your boots, and the angle of flexion limits your abilty to pivot and edge both skis in sync and parallel.
The effect is to force you to narrow your stance by sliding your uphill ski to your downhill ski and completing your turn by skidding the tails of your skis around.
Attempt to be more cuff neutral and your ability to move both skis in sync and parallel will be greatly influenced and increased.
franzClammer wrote:
Mike Pow wrote:
Here's my latest 'never ever' showing what I mean on his first day on skis.
When you're out in the 3Vs see if you can do what James is trying to do in the above vid.
With regard the Ploughless-staight to parallel teaching...... I take it you're working in in Japan?
Is your approach to get them sliding and to correct posture later or as you go?
My approach currently is to start them off with as close to correct posture as possible, then to work through layering on the fundamentals.
The plough seems the ideal vehicle for this. But then I am restricted to the singularly slightly too steep-for-beginners Hemel slope.
To be able to pick a piste that suits my learner's level is a bit of a dream situ for moi (distant violins)
I wondered what your thoughts are on the CT & the plough? Do you revert to these ever?
Cheers
Yes I am in Japan.
Not BASI certified so the CT is not a sequence / method I employ.
I don't teach the plough (see previous reply) for turning, balance or speed control.
I will demonstrate and recommend it for entering narrow lift lanes if necessary.
I try to get my students to stand tall and relaxed from the start. When they're not feeling threatened by the terrain and/or their speed on snow they achieve it.
If they feel threatened then they will get smaller and more closed.
I don't try to address the stance and posture over their ability to control their descent on snow. Take care of that and the stance and posture normally take care of themselves.
The first time that my students ski down a slope with both skis on I ask them to hold a pole horizontally in front of them as if they're pushing a shopping trolley and I hold the end of the pole and act as the 'governor' controlling their acceleration and speed. And aiding with balance.
Much in the same way as an adult would hold a child's bicycle seat when the child is learning to ride.
I'd do this until the student and I felt comfortable for me to let go and they can control their descent by shaping their skis.
Sounds good, seen it done but, Not sure that would work for my groups of 10 never evers at the fridge
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
You can see James working through all those things on his second day on snow.
And with the amount of snow on the piste he also got to feel how snow depth affects speed on snow and turn shape.
The first time that my students ski down a slope with both skis on I ask them to hold a pole horizontally in front of them as if they're pushing a shopping trolley and I hold the end of the pole and act as the 'governor' controlling their acceleration and speed. And aiding with balance.
Much in the same way as an adult would hold a child's bicycle seat when the child is learning to ride.
I'd do this until the student and I felt comfortable for me to let go and they can control their descent by shaping their skis.
Sounds good, seen it done but, Not sure that would work for my groups of 10 never evers at the fridge
That's the crux.
Only ever teach 'never evers' 1-on-1.
IMHO two of the biggest reasons most adults give up on skiing are:
Learning for the first time in a group environment and the snowplough.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Mike Pow wrote:
IMHO two of the biggest reasons most adults give up on skiing are:
Learning for the first time in a group environment and the snowplough.
I agree 100%
After all it is free
After all it is free
A disciple is born ?
Better not say you don't think the snowplough is needed out loud though, BASI eyes are everywhere..
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@geeo,
Ahhh I didn't say that.
I agree that it's at the plough stage & after group lessons that the largest drop out happens.
I can see the logic in the snow plough and the CT. I think it's best not to be dogmatic especially as I'm in my infancy in my instructing career. If something works I'll nick it, if it doesn't work then I'll discard it. The plough works. It is too demanding for some, cest le vie. You get out what you put in.
Pizza n chips
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
I like the Mike Pow method. That is excellent skiing for a 1 or 2 day skier and the posture is way better than many who have been through a week or more of trad progression.
Most importantly the pupil seems to have developed their own feel for what skis are doing and is able to correct rather than repeating a robotic pattern of movements.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
you jammy g*t 
