 Poster: A snowHead
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It's good to ski different places each season but I also think it is good to ski places you know well as I find I focus on improving my technique more.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I don't care where it is, as long as I'm skiing 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Somehow delete turned to replicate. Obviously it is not just not my skiing that needs some work. I think my contribution to which resort for a trip next year was anywhere with snow and beer is good.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I really don't get the point of pursuing BASI as a measure of personal skiing ability. By all means to teach or get good value top level coaching or even to get incentives to improve.
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Dave of the Marmottes,
It is awkward as you have to do shadowing and do lessons and this will deter some who have no intention to teach, but you do get very good high level coaching when you do an instructors course and because it is giving you the skills to instruct others and help them improve their skiing and eliminate bad habits, by default it also gives you skills to be able to improve your own skiing, and that can be something that you do not get to the same degree when you just have a lesson or coaching.
It can also force you to as the saying goes "Think out of the box".
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even to get incentives to improve.
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I think this could well be the key for many recreational skiers following the BASI teaching progression. Having a specific goal to aim for is great for generating a level of focus and commitment that would otherwise be missing and there's nothing wrong with that. There's also a strong focus on being technically correct and that appeals to some as well.
At the end of the day we all ski for our own personal reasons. Some for fun, some for personal achievement, some to be doing stuff with friends or family, some just to be outside in the mountains. Each to their own and I don't see any problem with any of it.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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olderscot, Yep I agree with all that. I just struggle with the idea of pursuing something as an adult just to get your merit badge. It' s pretty easy to measure improvement in your personal skiing - how much of the mountain are you having fun on? And is it Type 1 fun or Type 2 fun?
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Fri 9-05-14 13:52; edited 1 time in total
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I just struggle with the idea of pursuing something as an adult just to get your merit badge
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Ia there really anyone who does it just for the merit badge? I'd have thought most recreational skiers are doing it for a variety of reasons including the challenge, something to focus on, the extra commitment required, the high quality and technical focus of the teaching and generally bringing another dimension to their purpose in skiing other than just pootling about on the mountain.
I do know where you're coming from though. I just don't feel we should be too judgmental on people with different objectives.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Olderscot I could not agree more with you.
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You know it makes sense.
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Having a specific goal to aim for is great for generating a level of focus and commitment that would otherwise be missing and there's nothing wrong with that. There's also a strong focus on being technically correct and that appeals to some as well.
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It could be compared with taking music exams, if you take up an instrument. You can just play for yourself or to play with others, taking lessons and generally trying to improve, or you can pursue the formal programme which will force you to master a whole lot of technical stuff - scales, arpeggios, etc which are actually an essential basis for really sound musicianship. However brilliant and intuitive your performance might be you'll not get far up the ladder without having to do the theory exams, too. And if you have an area of weakness, you have to focus on it (my snowplough wouldn't pass BASI muster, just for starters). It's not to "get the badge", surely, it's to get the range of skills and competencies. And to have a structured programme to provide discipline and focus - no skating over the bits you find difficult. 
the music system also proves an easy benchmark (e.g. looking at a website for a local ensemble you are wondering about joining, and reading that you are unlikely to be successful unless you can play and sight-read at "Grade 8" level or above.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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I find I personally get a measure of satisfaction out of knowing if I am doing something 'right'. With something like skiing it's difficult to measure yourself and it has been my experience (of a good number of different instructors, in different countries and under different teaching regimes) that you are rarely told, 'OK, you've got that nailed' - far more often it focusses on continual development of skills and there is a tendency to think that you never accomplish anything. I posted not long many days ago how pleased I was with a comment that my turn shape was much improved - this doesn't mean I can't improve it, but at least it indicated to me that I had progressed and achieved 'something' - I was delighted to read it and it was a tangible sign that my efforts had paid off. I think with BASI qualifications or even measuring myself again a ski ability scale at least I have a formal measure of improvement that isn't as subjective as the fact that I can ski more today than I could years ago. It is very difficult to measure yourself (which is why modern video is useful) - lots of us might believe we can drive a car, and think we can do it better than when we first passed. Take an advanced driving lesson and you soon learn that is not the case, but it is difficult to realise that without external audit. I think those last two words are nice, an 'external audit' of my skills is something that I like to have. It might not appeal to others, but it adds my enjoyment - I'm a scientist - I like measurables!!
Edit: With apologies for huge block of text, with one ambling train of thought and no paragraphs!! 
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Fri 9-05-14 13:48; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hmmmmm, doesn't it say something about the teaching system though, that you have to train to be an instructor in order to realistically access the most technical type of ski instruction as an adult?
As a leisure skier, I would love to be able to access that type of really technical instruction, but having skied at snowdomes, and local dry slopes, that doesn't appear to be what is really on offer.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Oh and congrats franzClammer, by the way! 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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pam w, agreed, and as discussed before on BZK, the music education system here has the added advantage of splitting into two branches after Grade VIII - Performance and Teaching. The Teaching Diploma of course doesn't ignore performance standards, but it does pay more attention to teaching skills, given that the student wants eventually to teach and is not aiming for a career on the concert platform. How wonderful it would be if such a system were to apply in European skiing and, as logic would then dictate, if the French were able to agree that being able to ski at Eurotest speeds was not necessarily a pre-requisite to being a good teacher. And that a racer doesn't need to be a good teacher. (The coaching of racers is a different question.)
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| Megamum wrote: |
| I find I personally get a measure of satisfaction out of knowing if I am doing something 'right'. |
But skiing is dynamic, you'll never get skiing "right" IMHO, you will improve, make changes, find out there is more to learn and start the whole cycle again! On one run the snow conditions can change, you could be thrown backwards, forwards etc etc and have to adapt constantly based on feel and looking ahead.
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kitenski, perhaps this is why I find it a tad frustrating. However, that's me and I live with it.
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this is why I find it a tad frustrating
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but you do enjoy it, don't you? Just doing it, nice piste, nice surroundings, enjoying the rhythm of "dancing down the piste" - regardless of how well or badly you are doing? Very expensive way of not having fun, otherwise!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Megamum wrote: |
| kitenski, perhaps this is why I find it a tad frustrating. However, that's me and I live with it. |
Maybe you should reset the aim? Rather than "get skiing right", have an aim, like I think your doing, to improve your short radius turns?
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| Fenfilly wrote: |
| As a leisure skier, I would love to be able to access that type of really technical instruction, but having skied at snowdomes, and local dry slopes, that doesn't appear to be what is really on offer. |
We're pretty technical on the Inside Out Skiing clinics we run, especially for our higher end clients. Lots of drills, video feedback, etc.
In my experience the smaller ski schools are more likely to offer than kind of ski instruction, so places like Snoworks, Warren Smith, some of the NewGen courses, TDC, IOS might be worth looking at.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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IOS is sh:t try KitKat.
(I've only just spotted your acronym it all makes sense now)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Dave of the Marmottes,
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kitenski, yup, that's where I am at the moment. I've decided to focus on one aim at a time, at the moment it is improving short radius turns and considering where my weight is over the skis. Once I think I have that nailed I'll work on another aspect - it's still a goal centred approach.
Do I enjoy it? Well, out of choice, I am spending time in CFe rather than doing something else that I enjoy, so by that definition I must be getting something out of it I think I'm enjoying it more now I'm actually making progress and since I've started to feel confident on the slopes. It is probably fair to say that before that I was existing on the notion that the kids were enjoying the trips and I was rising to the challenge, now I guess I am enjoying the challenge, but only because I now see that it is finally achievable, something that has only been so in the last 12 months. A little bit of competition with my friend fC has given me something to chase.
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You know it makes sense.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Fenfilly wrote: |
| As a leisure skier, I would love to be able to access that type of really technical instruction, but having skied at snowdomes, and local dry slopes, that doesn't appear to be what is really on offer. |
We're pretty technical on the Inside Out Skiing clinics we run, especially for our higher end clients. Lots of drills, video feedback, etc.
In my experience the smaller ski schools are more likely to offer than kind of ski instruction, so places like Snoworks, Warren Smith, some of the NewGen courses, TDC, IOS might be worth looking at. |
Yes, those sprung to mind as I wrote that comment.
Thing is though, shouldn't ALL instruction be that good? (Obviously I'm aware that video feedback is a bit 'above and beyond') Otherwise what the heck is the average punter paying for? 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Fenfilly wrote: |
| Thing is though, shouldn't ALL instruction be that good? (Obviously I'm aware that video feedback is a bit 'above and beyond') Otherwise what the heck is the average punter paying for? |
That's a very good question! I suppose not everyone wants technical instruction of that kind, perhaps there are lots of people who are happy to be led around a few pistes with some general hints and tips. However, that's not what I was interested in as a holiday skier, nor is it what I'm interested in offering as an instructor. Unfortunately I think there is too much mediocre, and worse, instruction being offered to skiers, so it is no surprise to me that there are many, many people who don't think it can enhance their enjoyment of skiing.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Fenfilly wrote: |
Thing is though, shouldn't ALL instruction be that good? (Obviously I'm aware that video feedback is a bit 'above and beyond') Otherwise what the heck is the average punter paying for? |
The average punter is a beginner or intermediate level skier who views skiing is part of the holiday rather than a sport. The average ski instructor is an intermediate level skier who views ski instruction as part of the holiday rather than a career. Guys like Rob are rare. Be nice to him.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I wasn't not being nice!
Thing is, when I pay for lessons, I pay to be taught to the best of that instructor's ability. It's not his/her place to decide that I am 'just' the average punter who doesn't treat it as a sport, and therefore doesn't deserve the best instruction that they can give.
Every skier was a beginner once, and every skier should be given technically excellent lessons. It's their choice whether or not to carry on with them to a certain level. It's not the instructor's place to decide what level of instruction that person 'deserves'.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The average ski instructor is an intermediate level skier who views ski instruction as part of the holiday
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kenny really ? where do you teach?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Fenfilly wrote: |
Every skier was a beginner once, and every skier should be given technically excellent lessons. It's their choice whether or not to carry on with them to a certain level. It's not the instructor's place to decide what level of instruction that person 'deserves'. |
Hence many peoples' frustration with a form of organisation across Europe that keeps barriers to entry on non teaching criteria high and allows instructors in some of the larger alpine nations to phone it in on a daily basis.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| skimottaret wrote: |
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The average ski instructor is an intermediate level skier who views ski instruction as part of the holiday
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kenny really ? where do you teach? |
North America. There is a stink locally about the mass hiring of gap year kids on minimum wage squeezing out the locals.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Kenny wrote: |
| North America. There is a stink locally about the mass hiring of gap year kids on minimum wage squeezing out the locals. |
Is that in a resort where there is only one ski school, even if it has a few different guises?
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| Fenfilly wrote: |
| Every skier was a beginner once, and every skier should be given technically excellent lessons. It's their choice whether or not to carry on with them to a certain level. It's not the instructor's place to decide what level of instruction that person 'deserves'. |
Absolutely every instructor should give 100%. However not ever skier wants/needs technical lessons, that doesn't work for some folk, whereas it does for others.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Kenny wrote: |
| North America. There is a stink locally about the mass hiring of gap year kids on minimum wage squeezing out the locals. |
Is that in a resort where there is only one ski school, even if it has a few different guises? |
Indeed it is.
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Guys like Rob are rare. Be nice to him.
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If you insist.
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FAQ
. But it showed you do not need 200km or 600km of piste to have fun. OH ! and the holiday for two weeks in the end cost less than £100 all in including food and booze when my snow guarantee money came through.
