 Poster: A snowHead
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I posted this on another Winter Tyre thread
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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stanton, do pay attention that boy at the back in clogs! 
We've been watching this for a while now. The bundesrat is supposed to ratify this on Friday which means a date will be announced soon after. But the meeting may have some other more pressing discussions to make in the light of the letter/parcel bombs to Merkel and co discovered this week!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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boabski, round and black 
Only just got them so cannot say much more than that tbh, no difference in road noise as far as I can tell.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Samerberg Sue,
Sorry, I was trying to make a point that if they do not ratify.
As the law stands if your driving with unsuitable tyres in snow conditions the fines have just been Doubled & that I believe is effective as of November 1st.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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stanton, as it stands there are no fines for driving on unsuitable tyres. The current fines are for reckless driving, therefore only applicable if you are involved in an accident. If you are driving on unsuitable tyres for the conditions, you are deemed to be driving in a reckless manner and endangering the lives of others.
The police can currently stop you and inspect your tyres, but they cannot fine you if you have good summer tyres on and there is a metre of snow on the road! They can prevent you from continuing on the grounds of endangerment, but there are no fines YET. The current legislation is advisory, therefore they cannot impose fines.
When the law is ratified then the fines will apply - starting at 80 Euro. whether that is per vehicle or per tyre, I've no idea yet. The ADAC is keeping its members informed. As soon as I hear from them or from the news broadcasts, I'll update here.
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Samerberg Sue, what is interesting is some of my UK friends who are going to be driving over in April are thinking the small risk of getting stopped and fined 80 Euro is a risk worth taking vs the cost (approx £4-500) of buying winter tyres.....
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kitenski,
I doubt any Germans have winter tyres on the cars in April !!
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kitenski, will be OK by then - even Austria only goes to sometime in March. They have a compulsory winter tyre period starting 15th November that goes until (I think) 15th March.
You are deffo being ripped off at those prices! Way cheaper here, even for high-end vehicles! Why not pick some up when you are over here at the end of the season when dealers are getting rid of their winter stock? Get the rims cheaper too for most cars.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| kitenski wrote: |
Bode Swiller, I shall let you know if the Northern lasses respond the same way  |
No need to wait for news on this, I have had the Vredsteins for a couple of years now & can report much the same reaction from Leeds lasses each winter has been reported by Bode Swiller.
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Samerberg Sue, how much would 235/65R17 (108H) Vredestein Wintrac 4 Xtreme XL cost fitted Inc taxes in Europe, out of interest ???
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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kitenski, with or without rims?
On one price comparison site I've just found them from 172.40 to 189.28 Euro and available immediately. That is one hell of a winter tyre and a bit specialised isn't it! So your prices aren't too bad after all 
I know that my garage wanted to charge me 134 Euro per tyre for setting my car up with 4 new tyres and I beat them down by using the price comparison site info to 132 Euro for the lot using the same tyres. My tyres are a wee bit more normal though (175/65R/14) I have the Fulda Kristall Montero.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Samerberg Sue wrote: |
kitenski, with or without rims?
On one price comparison site I've just found them from 172.40 to 189.28 Euro and available immediately. That is one hell of a winter tyre and a bit specialised isn't it! So your prices aren't too bad after all
I know that my garage wanted to charge me 134 Euro per tyre for setting my car up with 4 new tyres and I beat them down by using the price comparison site info to 132 Euro for the lot using the same tyres. My tyres are a wee bit more normal though (175/65R/14) I have the Fulda Kristall Montero. |
Without, and yes it's a good winter tyre (I hope...) in a fairly large size....
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off thread a little but anyone know who has Vredstein Snowtrac 3's in stock I need some urgent Camskill say next year?????
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You know it makes sense.
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livetoski, try the site I used he had lots of Vredsteins in stock (and said he was getting daily new arrivals) when I was there yesterday....http://www.clickontyres.com/ the guy there is Damian, tell him the guy from yesterday with the XC90 recommended him....
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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kitenski, cheers, snow trac 3's like rocking horse droppings think the germans have them all
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| livetoski wrote: |
| off thread a little but anyone know who has Vredstein Snowtrac 3's in stock I need some urgent Camskill say next year????? |
We got ours from http://www.mytyres.co.uk/
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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thanks I am on the case just found out that Vredstiens UK base is only just up the road from me, dooh 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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OK big up to http://www.tyremen.co.uk/ they have the snowtrac 3's and are delivering tomorrow for me, they have a good stock of winter tyres, not on commision I assure you on this one.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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livetoski,
you star just paid £120 per tyre vs £160 from mytyres. I owe you a beer!!!!
Interestingly mytyres was up to £188 earlier in the week!!!
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How much!! For what size??
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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yup one beer per tyre
| Quote: |
How much!! For what size??
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255/55 R18 for an X5 - that's after getting a spare set of 18" rims. The standard wheels it came with are 255/50 R19 and 285/45 R19
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kitenski, sbirring, I paid £72 but I am running 195x60x15's plus £10 delivery
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Boredsurfing, I paid a touch under £500 fitted, balanced etc as I drove to the place only 15 miles from me. No scrap disposal as I will have the summer tyres put back on in April.
My local friendly tyre place I have used for years was going to charge me £10 a corner to fit if I got them elsewhere.
sbirring, ah 18" tyres
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Boredsurfing, same here £10 to fit per tyre and keeping my more expensive summer tyres
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Nice new set of Snowtrac 3 have just arrived ordered yesterday 12.45pm great service thanks mr tyremen
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Samerberg Sue wrote: |
| I know that my garage wanted to charge me 134 Euro per tyre for setting my car up with 4 new tyres |
These prices are with rims right? Because I paid 250eur (with installation to my spare rims) for all 4 Goodyear Ultragrip 7+ here (195/65 R15). If 134eur/tire is just for tire, I will change my job and start shipping tires around.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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sbirring, where did you get your 18" rims for your X5 from? Mine has the 20" rims and Im being quoted almost £300 per tyre
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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robboj, I managed to get an OEM set off ebay for £650 delivered. I think I was a victim of schill bidding though  as the other bidder had 42% transaction history with the seller. Also some post purchase research showed the seller had bought them a month before for £250. hohum still better than the £1100 for new though.
There are two types of 18" wheel that fit the X5 - type 209 and type 210
http://www.kalach.easynet.be/style/style_209.htm
http://www.kalach.easynet.be/style/style_210.htm
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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AFAIK, advantage can be gained by switching to narrower tyres on snow. This allows them to cut through the soft stuff to the tarmac or harder snow below. The only exception is for bottomless powder but I guess it's best not to try and drive on this at all!
Reducing the tyre width (first number in tyre size) alone is not helpful as this will reduce the overall circumference and change our speedo and gearing. To compensate we need to increase the profile of the tyre - that's the second number in the tyre size. To let this happen we also need to reduce the rim size - the last number in the tyre size. Mucho complicatedo!
Fortunately, there's a handy little calculator about half way down this page:
http://www.carbibles.com/tyre_bible_pg4.html
Unfortunately, tyres come in an enormous range of shapes and sizes - there seems to be very little standardization. You just need to keep playing and note down the numbers. For example, all these tyres are about the same circumference as the one's on my little van:
| Code: |
Width Prof Rim Circ Error Availability
155 80 12 1737 0.00 poor
155 70 13 1719 -1.01 good
155 75 13 1768 1.79 none
165 65 13 1711 -1.47 good
165 70 13 1763 1.52 excellent
175 60 13 1697 -2.28 poor
175 65 13 1752 0.89 moderate
175 70 13 1807 4.05 excellent
185 60 13 1735 -0.11 moderate
185 65 13 1793 3.24 none
165 55 14 1687 -2.84 none
165 60 14 1739 0.14 good
165 65 14 1791 3.13 good
175 55 14 1722 -0.85 none
175 60 14 1777 2.32 moderate
185 50 14 1698 -2.21 v. poor
185 55 14 1756 1.14 good
175 45 15 1692 -2.59 none
175 50 15 1747 0.58 poor
175 55 15 1802 3.74 moderate
185 45 15 1720 -0.96 none
185 50 15 1778 2.39 none
195 40 15 1687 -2.86 none
195 45 15 1748 0.67 good
195 50 15 1810 4.20 excellent
185 40 16 1742 0.29 none
195 35 16 1706 -1.79 none
195 40 16 1767 1.74 poor
195 45 16 1828 5.26 good
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I determined the 'availability' by looking to see how many tyres were available on blackcircles. As you can see, there's an enormous range to choose from. So it's probably best to go with a size with at least good availability.
YMMV!
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| Samerberg Sue wrote: |
| any summer tyres used at temperatures below +7°C lose traction and therefore braking distances are increased. Add rain, slush or ice to the equation, and sure as eggs is eggs, accidents tend to follow |
I'm sorry but that's too much of a generalisation.
A tyre will be warm to touch after use, even on a very cold day and the effectiveness of the tyre is its ability to key into the surface. You can often see steam coming off wet tyres, on very cold days. The temperature of that surface, provided it is dry, has little effect once that once the tyre has warmed up.
Snow tyres are not much better than summer tyres on sheet/black ice. Chains or studs are the only things that will grip properly on ice.
The tyre industry must think it is all of their birthdays at once.
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sbirring, Just got back to thread, the ones on Ebay have gone.
Yes it is the E70 model Dec 09 with the Dynamic Pack and 20" Rims. Dealer advises that to put the 20" winters on means new wheel arches etc so thats a no-no.
Dealer is quoting £1970 less discount for the 18" star shape with Continental full winters ! They are happy to store wheels and tyres all year round for free though.
Think I'll need to shop around?
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bar shaker, so you know better than the specialists do you?  Chains are only of use on compacted snow and studs are not allowed on most central European roads. The local foresters here use them for off-road use but have to switch vehicles to drive on the roads. I believe that they are more commonly used in northern Scandinavia where they have months of completely covered compacted snow on their roads.
I am just repeating what has been proven time and time again by the tyre manufacturers and the independent motoring associations. There is a good summary of the situation and differences in performance between all the varieties of tyres available in the ADAC Motoring Magazine this month. It details the differences in construction and why one works better in one situation and not in another. In the end they say that the best ones are always a compromise between good snow/ice tyres and good holding on dry roads.
For those looking for tyres they have a good list of what they have found to be the best makes in the 6 most common tyre sizes. The prices are in Euro though as it is aimed at the home market.
No news yet on when the date for enforcement is going to be. ADAC are betting on something like O to O (Oktober bis Ostern = October to Easter). The ratification does not seem to have been discussed last week - I think some of the terrorist prevention things took priority after the printer cartridge bomb debacle. I suspect if it is a fixed period it will be similar to the Austrian regs, or they may possibly let the Federal states make their own dates. Bayern would be most likely to go the O to O way whereas places like NRW, Lower Saxony, etc, may be more generalised. Difficult one to call as yet but it will be enforced, not only with fines but also points penalties.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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bar shaker,
If you are not already aware winter tyre doesn't have the same rubber compound as the summer tyre. It is softened by mixing with silicon to give a better grip in "all" condition and go harder same as the summer tyre but at a lower temperature.
That is why continental motorists have to change back to the summer tyres in summer because the winter tyre will not last.
A common technique to gain traction in snow ground is to lower the tyre pressure so that more traed is in contact with the snow or the tyre deforms more markedly. The winter tye achieve this by having soft rubber!
Additionally a winter tyre always has sips or micro zigzag grooves designed to trap the snow to increase the traction. The sips tread pattern is the sure sign to distibuish a winter tyre from a summer tyre because you can also have hard mud and snow block pattern on 4x4 designed to go through mud and rock.
A winter tyre does perform better than a summer tyre on ice and that is the whole point of using it.
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FAQ
