 Poster: A snowHead
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I hate mentioning this...
Fall Line is my favourite UK ski mag these days and on the whole I think it does an excellent job, generally striking the right balance, has great photography and design and covers things really well but a comment in the latest issue about Scotland rather stunned me.
In an article about climate change called "The Big Green Picture" a headline in large print cries out (page 35):
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| It's bad news for Scotland, as the snowline has already moved above the tops of the highest mountains for much of the winter |
This is pretty damaging stuff and although qualified on detailed reading of the far smaller print full article by a comment about this season being better than recent years it still leaves the impression that snow is no longer a feature for much of the Scottish winter. In fact a cursory look at the UKCIP figures for Highland Scotland suggests rather to the contrary that this sort of scenario won't, even under the worse case, be the case until the 2080s so why do Fall Line let us down so badly on the facts?
This is the sort of simplistic statement that could quite easily be printed in The Scotsman (a newspaper as some might know that has a recent track record of printing inaccurate and one sided articles about Scottish snowsports) but I really do think it's a shame to see this sort of potentially misleading stuff published in a magazine that should be supporting Scottish snowsports not adding to it's woes. In fact it wasn't so long ago that falliner (Publisher, Fall Line Skiing and Document Snowboard magazines) posted the following supportive comments about Scotland here:
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| In our own small way we are running features on the good stuff that can be done in the Highlands. |
So what's going on this month Fall Line?
Please tell us this is a mistake and you'll be printing a clarification in the next issue alongside some photos of the amazing powder currently available in Scotland because you really do know better and still want to support Scottish snowsports... don't you?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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When I worked on Cairngorm (1974-6), and continued skiing up there into the late 1970s, it was generally the case that the snow-line reliably held at 1800ft to 2000ft (550m to 600m) through the winter. That accounts for the lowest ski tow stations on the hill and - more importantly - the considerable ski trade at the time (including a large number of ski schools, ski shops, and thousands of accommodation beds up the Spey Valley). Aviemore, and about five other villages, did a lot of business every winter.
I was hired to work up there as a ski instructor in early December 1974. There were big snowstorms into and after the New Year and I eventually took the BASI training and exam when the snow continued into early May 1975 (when we were still skiing the Coire Cas, Ptarmigan/Ciste and West Wall). The lift developments up there had commenced in about 1961 and probably peaked with the construction of the two-stage Ciste and West Wall chairlifts (now defunct), although some Pomas were built after that. The £20 million funicular was subsequently funded primarily to boost tourism on foot.
I think it's factually correct (admittedly not having skied Scotland much in the past 20 years) that seasons and snow cover are highly variable now, with Cairngorm's skiing restricted to the tows on the Ptarmigan in bad winters, and maybe the Cas T-bar, and a skiable snow-line of 2500ft to 3000ft (750m to 900m), though you get really good storms from time to time (as per this winter) which extend the snowcover much more deeply and back to the original base stations.
But how and where does one define the snow-line these days? I'd agree that the comments you've relayed are rubbish and no help to Scottish skiing at all, but what is the scientific truth about the Scottish snowline this decade? It would be interesting for someone to estimate how many weeks it's been possible to ski to the Coire Cas carpark this winter.
I'd recommend Scottish skiing to anyone, but you've got to grab the opportunity when the snow blasts in. It's no good booking ahead because storms and thaws are so unpredictable and they cause such peaks and troughs. But the Highlands are always spectacularly beautiful if skiing is to be treated as a bonus, and the landscapes can be appreciated with so few people in the winter/spring months.
We've got to fight global warming. That's for sure.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Based on what I've observed with the aid of a few webcams on Cairngorm over recent winters, it does seem to be the case that the snowline's crept upwards by at least 100m vertical over the past 30 years, and probably 150m.
We can only wait and see if the trend continues or reverses a bit.
I guess Cairngorm's skiing still provides a fairly assured vertical of about 300m/1000ft of skiing from the top of the Ptarmigan to the bottom of the M1, Cas or mid-funicular. People say that the elevated funicular rail track has negatively affected drifting into the White Lady gully, which is a shame because that's always been the 'show piste' of the mountain where all the hot skiers used to congregate.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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"the snowline has already moved above the tops of the highest mountains for much of the winter".
Just what have people have been skiing on since late November, thin air? I can't imagine all those climbers on CairnGorm, Aonach Mor or Ben Nevis were all dry tooling either.
It's just this kind of thing that helps explain how with all runs complete on the main field, with 8-12inches of fresh that Glencoe was absolutely deserted today. Glencoe is loaded, the natural snow fields have a great base in the gullies. Will it be yet another season where the lift served action draws to a close in the West not due to lack of snow, but lack of skiers?
With regards skiing to the Cas Carpark, it's been possible for 8weeks since later in the 1st week of Jan utilizing the Fiacaill Ridge.
Did someone mention the West Wall Chairlift.... 
Oh, just quote someone else's response to this:
wait, theres a swear filter on here, no point! 
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Tue 4-03-08 0:44; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Just an interesting aside to the subject, this winter has seen the likes of the deep natural snow fields truly load up at Glencoe, Goose Gully to collect a good full length base, and Coire Cas to be fully complete with a decent and well consolidated base, the West Wall has been complete for most of the past 2 months (insert rant of choice!).
Anything different about this winter compared to some recent ones? Yes. Wind, lots more wind. That's why the natural snow fields are doing well, snow has been of the horizontal variety. Meteorological records show that mean winter wind speeds have been going down contrary to climate change predictions, this season seeing a reversal to that trend. However it does make me wonder to what extent the stormy side-effect of cool zonality that delivered much of the big snows in the 80s has been filtered out by the rose tinted shades?
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roga, Being out here, I haven't seen any recent copies of Fall Line - Falliner you should be ashamed of yourself.
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Winterhighland, I hope you do have good snow cover but i notice from BASI's website that the Eurotest planned for Scotland has once again been cancelled due to lack of snow cover 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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As Winterhighland knows, the lift company at Aviemore had a spokesperson on the radio a few weeks ago saying (I paraphrase) that skiing in Scotland is a dead duck in anything other than the short term. Not entirely surprising if mags pick up on that general tone.
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Well, not necessarily. There are two clear models - the one operated in the Pennines by clubs (i.e. costs minimised to building and running the lifts when the snow is there), or a fully-fledged lift company with salaried staff.
The first lifts in Scotland - rope tows - were built by clubs and loosely associated groups of skiers. If the snow's going to be very variable and up for grabs at short notice then the lifts might have to be operated in future on a cheaper, more flexible basis.
There's no reason for Scottish skiing to be a dead duck.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| stewart woodward wrote: |
| Winterhighland, I hope you do have good snow cover but i notice from BASI's website that the Eurotest planned for Scotland has once again been cancelled due to lack of snow cover |
The euro speed test is a crock of shite. It has absolutely no relevance to teaching of snowsports what so ever and is just a highly dubious piece of protectionism.
There should be more than enough snow to do it in Scotland, unfortunately the requirement is that it must be on an accredited FIS giant slalom course. Absolutely no reason why it could not be held on the Goose at Nevis other than the absurd stupidity of the rules that govern it. Which is why it's protectionist bull.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Bit off-topic but is anybody else still waiting for their march edition to arrive in the post?
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You know it makes sense.
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roga, I've just been away and can read emails/pms but not respond to threads via my phone, for some reason. I do take this seriously; I texted Admin to ask him to put a holding response up but he is in the middle of MSB so is a tad overworked right now.
Since this is a few days old I've had a chance to contact a few people who have a vested interest in this - I was actually skiing with the VisitScotland marketing guy on the day I got notification about the thread. He wasn't exactly delighted, as you might imagine.
Having said that, his (and the) main issue was the highlighting of the snowline rising being focussed on Scotland, rather than any inaccuracy in the story. In that, I hold up my hands and agree that it was an unhelpful comment and it should have been aimed generally, or at least at Europe as a whole. I can't modify the comment in print this season because the Spring issue is the last one until September.
I'm reluctant to comment on the website because it stands more chance of being taken out of context; the view we've taken is that we'll continue to push Scotland as a great destination when conditions allow. I've spoken to many regular Scottish skiers who have seen both this feature and the other coverage we've givin to Scotland over this season and previous ones and they all share the same view - pushing it as an alternative to the Alps isn't realistic, but pushing it as a fantastic, 'just up the road', short break destination is viable.
We're the only magazines (include Document Snowboard in this because there's more coverage in there than in Fall-Line Skiing) who feature Scotland on a regular basis; we've just been up there freeriding which will be featured next season, and are heading up again for a comp which we're involved in sponsoring, again for content for next season. This is taken into account by the Scottish marketeers I talk to regularly. As with all stories, anything can be taken out of context. In this case I think we've made it too easy for that to happen and apologise.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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fallliner, Nice reply, glad you are taking notice of these things.
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Poster: A snowHead
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fallliner, thanks very much for the reply.
| fallliner wrote: |
| roga, I've just been away and can read emails/pms but not respond to threads via my phone, for some reason. I do take this seriously; I texted Admin to ask him to put a holding response up but he is in the middle of MSB so is a tad overworked right now. |
Sorry if I you feel was being harsh in my last post above, was just being a tad provocative (as well as tongue in cheek in comments about US mags).
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| Since this is a few days old I've had a chance to contact a few people who have a vested interest in this - I was actually skiing with the VisitScotland marketing guy on the day I got notification about the thread. He wasn't exactly delighted, as you might imagine. |
Ooops!
Mind you VisitScotland are sometimes guilty of talking Scottish snowsports down so don't take too much dissing off 'em 
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| Having said that, his (and the) main issue was the highlighting of the snowline rising being focussed on Scotland, rather than any inaccuracy in the story. In that, I hold up my hands and agree that it was an unhelpful comment and it should have been aimed generally, or at least at Europe as a whole. I can't modify the comment in print this season because the Spring issue is the last one until September. |
Yup, I think that's the crux, whilst there may be an average rise in snowlines across Europe that will vary from region to region. In the case of Scotland, where snowsports have always taken place on drifted snow caught in gullies etc (and latterly caught by snowfences as well) in between periods of freeze/thaw, conditions have always been somewhet different to mainland Europe. Whilst there may be truth in the generality of snowlines rising there are specific factors that make the picture in Scotland,and probably other regions, far more complex and I think t's perhaps worth being a little more clear about that in any articles published on climate change.
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| I'm reluctant to comment on the website because it stands more chance of being taken out of context; |
Hmmm, wouldn't worry about that, hopefully I for one have made it clear that Fall Line is my favourite UK ski read so I have no agenda of negativity to follow. I was more dissapointed and let down to read what you published than anything else because I expected (and expect) better and nine point nine times out of ten you are better than that 
As for taking stuff out of context, the quote I gave above was out of context but I made that clear by poining out that you guys had already done that by pulling it out of the article and putting it in big bold print as a headline on the page in question. There were some brief qualifying comments in the article body itself but they were, as I say, brief and I'd also suggest not strong or clear enough to negate the large print quote.
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| the view we've taken is that we'll continue to push Scotland as a great destination when conditions allow. I've spoken to many regular Scottish skiers who have seen both this feature and the other coverage we've givin to Scotland over this season and previous ones and they all share the same view - pushing it as an alternative to the Alps isn't realistic, but pushing it as a fantastic, 'just up the road', short break destination is viable. |
I agree, it's exactly what I do; in between trips elsewhere if I can I head up north (in my case from Bristol) when the weather and conditions look good. This season there have been quite a few excelent opportunties although I've only been able to take advantage the once as a result of other commitments or other trips but I've planned for a while to spend the Easter long weekend up at the Nevis ski test and so will be up the weekend after next. At the moment conditions are looking stunning snow wise and hopefully the current storms that are bringling all that lovely powder to the west will abate at least for that weekend. It's worth noting that in recent years March and April have seen some stunning conditions in the west of Scotland with blue skies and powder being available. Hopefully this is a new pattern to the weather and something we can flag up in future years! It's also worth noting that even in the poorer years snowsports in Scotland tend to continue right up until the end of April, sometimes into May so late season sliding is more typical there than in many lower Alpine resorts - regional variations in snow cover I'd guess.
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| We're the only magazines (include Document Snowboard in this because there's more coverage in there than in Fall-Line Skiing) who feature Scotland on a regular basis; we've just been up there freeriding which will be featured next season, and are heading up again for a comp which we're involved in sponsoring, again for content for next season. This is taken into account by the Scottish marketeers I talk to regularly. |
Great stuff, I'll look forward to reading these articles and all power to you for taking the time and trouble to organise these.
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| As with all stories, anything can be taken out of context. In this case I think we've made it too easy for that to happen and apologise. |
Thanks and much apeciated but I'll just mention again that it wasn't me who took anything out of context, whoever edited the article and decided to put that quote up as a headline in big bold type did that.
Anyway, I'll still be buying Fall Line (as well as Powder ) next season and will look forward to al the coverage of Scottish skiing you have planned.
(oh, and do take a look at Winterhighland, there are some fantastic photos of recent powder days at Glencoe and Nevis over there that might be of interest  )
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Roga,
As an aside, how do you travel from Bristol to Scotland, and do you go just for a weekend's skiing, or longer?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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^ no worries about missing Glencoe - I've been drooling over those amazing piccies on Winterhighland and Highland Instinct for the last week or so - yesterday's were amazing!
I'm planning to get over to Glencoe at least once or twice whilst up
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Hi all. I actually wrote the Fall Line piece and I actually live in the Highlands and have done for the past 25 years so am now racked with guilt at having now discovered I inadvertently single handedly destroyed the Scottish ski industry. I was feeling quite pleased with that article too. Fall Line gave me the luxury of 2,000 words to finally get to grips with the real issues of climate change in ski resorts. But screw that! The single Scottish line in those 2000 words s the important bit we should be getting wound up about!
Whatever you now think of me *(and I will lie awake at night worrying abouit it if that's any consolation) I do TRY to do good by Scottish skiing. I was one of 20 people at the Lecht on Monday doing my bit to pay their bills. Snow was great, a pity the rentals are the same kind you see in those reports on 'third world' skiing in the Himalayas. The Salomon rear entry boots thery had were the same my wife bought just over 20 years ago. Lucky we just needed to rent the rubber skis.
OK, I'm VERY SORRY I wrote about the snow line rising in Scotland. Try not to take out your ire on poor Fall Line, they just printed wot I wrote. It's a classic case of shooting the messenger.
Having just re-read what I actually wrote, I think I will foolishly stand by it, though. I have not confused the rising snowline with the Alps. I have just done something very simple - I looked out of my window.
It's very naive I know. But when I looked out of my window in 1985 or 1995 I could see snow on the hill tops for eight months of the year. For the past five years I see it for the odd week (this one included) during the winter. But most of the time it has gone completely. Hence my wild theory that the 'snowline' - by which I am simplistically meaning the point at which precipitation turns to snow, is somewhere higher and colder than the hill tops for "much of the winter" to quote myself precisely.
OK I am talking about the hill tops I can see - which is only Ben Wyvis and not the actual ski areas, so I can see I have been a tad misleading there and I apologise
Again - in a desperate bid to self justify and ease my guilt - If any of the moaners care about the bigger picture I've spent 25 years promoting Scottish skiing around the world. (For examples see the current stories at: http://www.snowboardclub.co.uk/news-6852.html and http://www.ifyouski.com/news/newsarticle/?ObjectID=8304515 or this Canadian one: http://www.skirebel.com/magazine/archives/1542#more-1542). So I feel like through all that time I've been doing a better job that the official bodies of actually getting the word out about Scottish skiing and trying to promote it (when there is good snow in Scotland I never seem to read an official press release about it appearing anywhere).
But then when you try to be honest rather than cowdoo people that it's a quality experience all winter long, of the kind that most puntyers expect - I'm not talking die-hard loons like you lot - people (like you) complain, and it's disheartening you know?
So I think, why am I bothering? To which, I know, the obvious answer is "Go away and don't bother then!" ...and i haven't done much the past year since somebody complained when I mentioned that there wasn't much snow the first half of last winter right up to March becvause I was being unpatriotic and talking down Scotland. Much better to just be quiet and pretend its OK. If you don't live here you can even go on imagining it is OK if you like. So I'll try to shut up again and just not mention Scotland, I'm sure it'll get on fine without me. That's much better, I'll just go and get a nice cup of tea.
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Skier from Argentina,
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As an aside, how do you travel from Bristol to Scotland, and do you go just for a weekend's skiing, or longer?
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There's a direct flight with Easy Jet from Bristiol to Inverness if you want to go the fast non-green way. www.easyjet.com
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Anyway, I'll still be buying Fall Line (as well as Powder )
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Did you see their back of mag piece on climate change in Vol 36, no 6, page 82? ...highly entertaining!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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It's just this kind of thing that helps explain how with all runs complete on the main field, with 8-12inches of fresh that Glencoe was absolutely deserted today.
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I don't know, maybe, partly. Do you think it could be the unpredictability of good conditions like the ones you're talking about in Scotland? Do you think it might be that people have been sold an Alpine style experience but when they got here, found it wasn't like that - that even if there was snow, the showestring budgets of Sottish ski areas mean that despite the best efforts of operators the lifts are old and worn out, the rentals likewise and often that along with good conditions comes gales with huge wind chill, blizzards and long queues at ticket windows, rentals and to ride the lifts to access pistes that aren't groomed, have all sorts of rocks and fences coming through them etc etc. I know it's all good stuff for the die-hard Scottish skier, the atmosphere is ghreat, but most British punters, the majority who aren't Snowheads, don't want that. It costs a lot too, I spent just over £100 incl fuel o the Lecht, rent terrible skis, get a ticket and a lacklustre lunch with a coffee on Monday - for two hours trying to stand up (Because the skis were so bad) on the great snow. I know, I know, I'm a softee.
I'm just not sure where it's going. It's been a great season comparatively burt how long can Glenshee, and Glencoe keep those old lifts going?
I think the answer is far better PR. I'm afraid I do believe in being honest (as above) rather than selling a fantasy. But when there is perfect powder at Glencoe (and I don't think that's as often as you do, but I accept you're right), I think a normal-person-feriendly press release is fired out to hundreds of media outlets in the UK and further afield saying so. Not aimed at snowheads but just at average, one-week-a-year punters, saying "Gwet up here now". There are trains, pretty empty roads and flights now from about 10 UK regional airports, so it is an ideal weekend or midweek break. The distribution network just needs setting up. All other ski areas in the word do it. Why doesn't Scotland?
his doesn't happen.
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I don't know, maybe, partly. Do you think it could be the unpredictability of good conditions like the ones you're talking about in Scotland? Do you think it might be that people have been sold an Alpine style experience but when they got here, found it wasn't like that -
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Possibly, but a lot of it is that they have been sold a line that it now never snows in scotland and that you can no longer ski in scotland. Its not helped by the fact that most punters seem to expect scotland to have snow in December, January and february if at all, yet in reality the best snow is probably March and early April. Scotlands major market is always going to be the local skier who lives within a couple of hours of the areas and can do a day or weekend trip at short notice. The problem is many of them just don't know there is still snow in Scotland.
For example Winterhighland was at a bussiness conference in Inverness last summer and asked delegates about skiing. A large percentage of those who were local and skiers thought there had been no skiing in Scotland in the 06/07 season. Cairngorm was open with skiable snow from December through to April. It wasn't brilliant, mainly the top bowl and down to the midstation, but there was skiing available throughout the period bar closures due to high winds.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Fri 18-04-08 12:59; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| snowhunter wrote: |
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It's just this kind of thing that helps explain how with all runs complete on the main field, with 8-12inches of fresh that Glencoe was absolutely deserted today.
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I don't know, maybe, partly. |
It's not one individual item, but it is the constant drip drip drip of "no snow - global warming UK" hype.
Last autumn I spoke to around 30 skiers at a business exhibition in Inverness, they were all from the Northern half of Scotland and half of them said that hadn't skied in Scotland for several years as there had been no snow, a third of them when showed photos from CairnGorm during the 2007 season said they thought CairnGorm had failed to open at all for snowsports in 2007. If that perception is so widespread even in a fairly local area it proves just how damaging the media driven perception is.
This year has benefited significantly from the big storms that came in early Jan before the end of the holiday period and captured interest when it's easier to do so. Interest has also surged when there has been low level snow either in or visible from the Central Belt, or repeated severe weather warnings mentioning snow on the weather forecasts. Peoples attention was got by the weather warnings over a week ago, and as the snow built up interest picked up - resulting in 1700 people hitting CairnGorm on Wednesday, with the Ciste Carpark in use and shuttle bus running. April is apparently on track to give Glencoe their best month in terms of skier days - so word has slowly got around, where as early March it looked like it could have been an early end due to lack of skiers.
Perhaps the tide is turning? The 'Gorm is rocking just now, there was an amazing buzz around the place on Wednesday, it's shaping up to be a fantastic weekend.
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Perhaps the tide is turning? The 'Gorm is rocking just now, there was an amazing buzz around the place on Wednesday, it's shaping up to be a fantastic weekend.
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Lets hope it isn't too busy. At least i'll be able to get the skins out and head over the back if the queues get too long.
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You know it makes sense.
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Why dont you lobby your local news stations (up north of the border) to report on snow conditions on their weather slots, down here in the south west they mention surf conditions in the summer. I think the biggest problem for peple down in the south is not that we dont know that there is snow up in the highlands (we do) it is cost vs quality, it is as expensive to do a weekend in the highlands as a cheap week in austria, which is a shame because I had some great days up there in the late 90's, nothing like skiing in your own country.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I want it to be busy enough for a frequent shuttle bus service though! Depending on the M1 Poma (was often ski straight on to it on Wednesday), the shuttle bus, FRP, M1 Poma or Shuttle Bus + Train might be my preferred route for attacking the Ciste. You can still get the upper section of the East Wall and then traverse out into Coire Laogh Mor, or the upper part of the Ciste Gully and West Wall Chair Run then traverse out across the Aonach Bowl onto the ridge back to the end of the Link Road and the shuttle bus.
So many options just now.
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Poster: A snowHead
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The snow was fantastic at Nevis on Monday but I doubt there were more than 40 skiers plus some sightseers. Most of the day there was nobody in the Back Corries.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Winterhighland, If I see you tommorow you'll have to show me the Coire Laogh Mor route down to the ciste, though if the weather is good I gues I'll try it on my own.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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JimSearle, If you travel up with several in a car, sharing petrol costs and stay in a B & B in shared rooms (£20 or so per night) it can be a very cheap holiday to ski in Scotland. If you go up by train (or plane and car hire) and stay in a hotel it gets more expensive.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Max13biker,
Well I've been abroad twice this season, a week in the dolomites and a week at LDA. I've also done 28 days here in Scotland and will be doing 2 more over the weekend. I've lived in Scotland now for 10 years and have managed on average 15+ days every year, the average may be going up after this year. My two best years have been this season and 05/06 season when I managed 29 days.
So there is no reason for it to be and either or. Even last year, which was a poor season I managed 11 days skiing in Scotland and a couple of those were absolutley brilliant, touring over to Ben Macdui in very good spring conditions.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Looking at recent reports on this forum - it looks good this year.
However, will it be good again next year?
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Who knows, but if you don't get your skis on you'll have missed the brilliant conditions we have NOW!
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I think snowhunter has a point about most skiers not being as dedicated as many snowheads. Many ski once a year and want a "holiday" experience which includes going abroad. Being in a different country adds to the enjoyment. The original contentious comment about the snowline being above the mountains for most of the winter may give people the wrong idea about skiing in Scotland but surely this should be countered by effective PR by the scottish ski industry. After all, we hear loads of reports about poor snow, global warming, the snowline moving up the mountain etc affecting skiing in every corner of the globe - most people learn to take them with a pinch of salt and make their own minds up about where to go based on loads of other, personal reasons, many of which have little to do with the snow - which can be variable wherever and whenever you go skiing.
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Seems everyone is saying the same thing but from different angles!
Max13biker's comment epitomise what a lot of us did do, but it seems very few people can be bothered to do now. Easier to get on Playstation!
Agreed on nowhere better than Scotland on a good day, but the problem is those days don't come consistantly and a lot of people get out of the habit of waiting and hoping.
I do think an honest gorilla type PR marketing campaign is needed. When those good days come - like this fantastic week - all major media should be blitzed with user-friendly ready-written releases by email with great pix showing happy families in the snow. SDo lazy journos can just chuck them out to fill a gap. Then go quiet when its crap just like the Colorado resorts do. Then fire them off again on the next good day aith an "Awesome powdwer day at Nevis" story. That is exactly what other ski areas do when they want to grow business.
Would also be good to tie in with rail companies and airlines so that when they run low price specials (Eg 19 pound sleepers London to Aviemore) that's another promo story for Scottish skiing.
I agree Scotland is bearing the brunt of negative global warming stories (It's not the only victim - poor old Kitzbuhel is forever being referenced, and it also had a superb season and there was that 'End of skiing in the Alps' story in the Assiociated Press last spring when Abondance decided to scale back its operation). This chat has certainly reminded me to be more careful about how I write things. But I do wish there was someone smart and aware of what's happening in the rest of the world really getting the word out about Scotland when it's good. The obvious release should be, "Where's your global warming now my bonnie lads?" with a pic of current conditions.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Ahem, snowhunter methinks you protest rather melodramatically at the comments above, most of which I thought had been put to bed anyway!
The main point was Fall Line's decision to take an edited sentence from your piece out of context and make it into a large print headline, not your decision I presume?
The point is clearly made above:
| roga wrote: |
| As for taking stuff out of context, the quote I gave above was out of context but I made that clear by pointing out that you guys had already done that by pulling it out of the article and putting it in big bold print as a headline on the page in question. There were some brief qualifying comments in the article body itself but they were, as I say, brief and I'd also suggest not strong or clear enough to negate the large print quote. |
Anyway, as for the rest of your opening 'salvo':
| snowhunter wrote: |
| Hi all. I actually wrote the Fall Line piece and I actually live in the Highlands and have done for the past 25 years so am now racked with guilt at having now discovered I inadvertently single handedly destroyed the Scottish ski industry. I was feeling quite pleased with that article too. Fall Line gave me the luxury of 2,000 words to finally get to grips with the real issues of climate change in ski resorts. But screw that! The single Scottish line in those 2000 words s the important bit we should be getting wound up about! |
As I say, it's the affect of the large print headline that was the main gripe and I don't think anybody has accused you of having "single handedly destroyed the Scottish ski industry"!
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| Whatever you now think of me *(and I will lie awake at night worrying abouit it if that's any consolation) I do TRY to do good by Scottish skiing... |
Don't take it personally, you have a POV as do others, no need for melodrama!
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| OK, I'm VERY SORRY I wrote about the snow line rising in Scotland. Try not to take out your ire on poor Fall Line, they just printed wot I wrote. It's a classic case of shooting the messenger. |
Firstly you're not sorry you clearly stand by your comments but Fall Line did choose to take a passage out of context - there's no shooting of the messenger involved, there's an honest debate to be held that's be better prosecuted without amateur dramatics on anyone's part.
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| Having just re-read what I actually wrote, I think I will foolishly stand by it, though. I have not confused the rising snowline with the Alps. I have just done something very simple - I looked out of my window. |
Not the most scientific of methods I have to suggest!
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| It's very naive I know. But when I looked out of my window in 1985 or 1995 I could see snow on the hill tops for eight months of the year. For the past five years I see it for the odd week (this one included) during the winter. But most of the time it has gone completely. Hence my wild theory that the 'snowline' - by which I am simplistically meaning the point at which precipitation turns to snow, is somewhere higher and colder than the hill tops for "much of the winter" to quote myself precisely. |
I don't think anyone is denying climate change is happening but as I suspect you know the issue of snow line is somewhat more complicated in Scotland than might seem to be the case to the casual observer. Also the fact is the snow has always come and gone in Scotland and skiing traditionally has relied on surviving drifted snow in gullies (and by snowfences) etc. In some recent years the pattern of freeze thaw and precipitation has varied in such a way as to affect the amount of snow either falling or surviving but I'd suggest it's far too simplistic to simply say that's because it's warmer per se. I think I've made all these points (and others) above but you seem to have managed to miss them!
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| OK I am talking about the hill tops I can see - which is only Ben Wyvis and not the actual ski areas, so I can see I have been a tad misleading there and I apologise |
Wyvis has always had snow that comes and goes, certainly in the 80s and 90s, when I could regularly see it from my upstairs window and from the beach in Findhorn. Mind you it was once proposed for development with a funicular to be built up the hill, can't see that being a goer, if it ever really was, in the here and now!
So anyone who has a genuine disagreement with your POV is therefore a "moaner"?
Your point about official PR is IMHO well made though, this is one of the issues that the Scottish ski industry needs to address.
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| But then when you try to be honest rather than cowdoo people that it's a quality experience all winter long, of the kind that most puntyers expect - I'm not talking die-hard loons like you lot - people (like you) complain, and it's disheartening you know? |
Again, emotive language and you miss the point... but I've explained that more than enough now I think... even if you choose to miss the point!
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| So I think, why am I bothering? To which, I know, the obvious answer is "Go away and don't bother then!" ...and i haven't done much the past year since somebody complained when I mentioned that there wasn't much snow the first half of last winter right up to March becvause I was being unpatriotic and talking down Scotland. Much better to just be quiet and pretend its OK. If you don't live here you can even go on imagining it is OK if you like. So I'll try to shut up again and just not mention Scotland, I'm sure it'll get on fine without me. That's much better, I'll just go and get a nice cup of tea. |
Glad you've got that off your chest but the emotional stuff is really rather your issue!
If you're hurt by people having genuine disagreements over the emphasis you place on certain factors, and it's really only a matter of emphasis when seprerated from the main issue of how Fall Line chose to present your piece, then it's really more about your emotional response and less about the real issue of what's changed/changing in Scottish snow fall patterns. The latter I am happy to discuss in a sensible fashion, the former is something you need to grapple with yourself I'm afraid.
Anyway, other comments:
| snowhunter wrote: |
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Anyway, I'll still be buying Fall Line (as well as Powder ) |
Did you see their back of mag piece on climate change in Vol 36, no 6, page 82? ...highly entertaining! |
Nope, missed that - tell me more 
| snowhunter wrote: |
| I don't know, maybe, partly. Do you think it could be the unpredictability of good conditions like the ones you're talking about in Scotland? Do you think it might be that people have been sold an Alpine style experience but when they got here, found it wasn't like that - that even if there was snow, the showestring budgets of Sottish ski areas mean that despite the best efforts of operators the lifts are old and worn out, the rentals likewise and often that along with good conditions comes gales with huge wind chill, blizzards and long queues at ticket windows, rentals and to ride the lifts to access pistes that aren't groomed, have all sorts of rocks and fences coming through them etc etc. I know it's all good stuff for the die-hard Scottish skier, the atmosphere is ghreat, but most British punters, the majority who aren't Snowheads, don't want that. It costs a lot too, I spent just over £100 incl fuel o the Lecht, rent terrible skis, get a ticket and a lacklustre lunch with a coffee on Monday - for two hours trying to stand up (Because the skis were so bad) on the great snow. I know, I know, I'm a softee. |
I agree with much of that but disagree that Scottish skiing is that expensive or the food that poor but I'm basing that on Nevis and Cairngorm and staying in Fort William/Aviemore. There's very cheap accommodation and loads of great food off the hill and at the two mentioned above the food is pretty good although it is more expensive at Cairngorm. Glencoe is Glencoe and the food is very much the sort of fare I remember from 20 years back, rpough and ready like the place itself LOL. I don't have any recent experience of The Lecht or Glenshee so can't comment on them and don't use the on-hill hire so again can't comment but know a number of people prefer to use local hire whenever they can in preference to the kit available from the ski areas.
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| I'm just not sure where it's going. It's been a great season comparatively burt how long can Glenshee, and Glencoe keep those old lifts going? |
That's the problem and I agree there's a problem.
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| I think the answer is far better PR. I'm afraid I do believe in being honest (as above) rather than selling a fantasy. |
I absolutely agree, 100%
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But when there is perfect powder at Glencoe (and I don't think that's as often as you do, but I accept you're right), I think a normal-person-feriendly press release is fired out to hundreds of media outlets in the UK and further afield saying so. Not aimed at snowheads but just at average, one-week-a-year punters, saying "Gwet up here now". There are trains, pretty empty roads and flights now from about 10 UK regional airports, so it is an ideal weekend or midweek break. The distribution network just needs setting up. All other ski areas in the word do it. Why doesn't Scotland?
his doesn't happen. |
Totally agree again, current PR is generally appalling and why they waste money on that Ski Scotland/Visit Scotland organisation I don't know, completely useless if you ask me and much better invested elsewhere. Nevis are actually quite good at getting their PR out to people who sign up, like me, to their e-mailing list, I'm not sure if this also goes out to the press though.
IMHO they should be making virtues out of the fact Scottish skiing is different, they should be pushing the fact it's less developed, it's often more suited to better skiers who have some off-piste (or rough piste ) experience and can view differing snow and weather conditions as a challenge rather than looking for perfect green/blue motorway pistes. I'm convinced there's a market out there they could tap locally and further afield, it just needs a bit of imagination and enthusiasm. It also doesn't have to be that expensive these days with online PR being an important part of any campaign, a bit of viral marketing and word of mouth could do amazing things, some well placed You Tube videos in addition to all the enthusiasts ones already there, could help create a buzz whilst those of us posting on forums can do our bit too if they'd work with us. Heck, this year we must have boosted their revenues with all the comments and buzz we've created on here and elsewhere, there's certainly been more people heading up north than usual as a result of all the photos guys like firstracks have posted.
All good positive stuff I feel
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Hi!
Yes, sorry, I know I'm rather late responding. It has been a hectic winter and a few people had mentioned "comments" on the piece in Snowheads but i never got chance to take a look before.
To be honest as the piece had been about climate change and I thouight i had only mentioned Scotland in passing as an example of where it appeared to be hurting a bit it hadn't dawned on me that was the bit snownheads would focus in on. I had been very happy with the piece as Fall Line had - as a very rare treat - given me 2,000 words and allowed me to rant on to some detail about the full picture (eg with 1995 words not mentioning Scotland at all) rather than the usual 500 word, one dimensional piece that you see in 99% of publications. So I was sort of coming from being quite pleased with the article (and good reaction to it), when I came on the Snowheads Scotland stuff, which also opened up a few wounds from last year when I got some abusive emails for not constantly portraying Scotland as better than it is and talking down Scottish skiing, when, as I already moaned about in earlier entries, on balance I seem - from Google alerts - to be getting more positive PR out for Scottish skiing outside of Scotland than any Scotland tourism body I'm aware of. So whilst it reads as melodramatic I was really just taking the Michael a bit I'm afraid from an exasperated point of view because of that.
OK, talking your commnts on my comments briefly:
The powder piece was a good tongue in cheek 'what you can do about climate change' which starts with the usual 'firt low energy light builbs' but gets more and more absurd and funny as it looks at the reality of what people are actually saying we really need to do to combat climate change. Without writing it all out for you it doesn't translate too well.
VERY SORRY - yes you're right, I'm not really, ...but this was the sarcasm/irony I mentioned. On the other hand I am QUITE SORRY that the points were misconstruesd and that's at leastr 50% my fault for not being careful how I worded them. I'm confident ((albeit depressed) that 'on average' there is less snow in cuyrrent winters than 10, 20, 30 years ago; but the 'snowline' comment suiggested it was some fixed line moving up and down the mountain which in retrospect is misleading and lazy of me not to have made it more technically accurate. Although you do then get bogged down in technicalities and the idea was to get it concise and comprehendable to non-climate-change- geeks. Plus I do tend to always apologise as a first line of defence with my wife whether I believe I'm wrong or not, so I must be doing that in other areas of my life now.
Your kind (reading-between-the-lines) suggestion that I may need psychiatric councelling is appreciated, but rest assured, if you re read my comments from the point of view that I am quite confident that I'm right on the essentials and that my comments have been misconstrued (as I say, at least partly my fault), you have no nead to fear about my emotional state (although perhaps the immediate aopology thing with my wife should be looked at now I think about it). Rest assured you can't be a full time writer for 25 years without developping a very thick skin. Particularly when you write about climate chanre - I've had some wonderful hate mail from loony flat earthers in the southern states of the US. I'm not actually that concerned about climate change though I get portrayed as a green ski evangelist (eg: http://travel.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/travel/article655791.ece) . I just got fed up with lack of clear information and lack of thought-through arguments so thought I should try to get some information collated so it was there for people to see and form an opinion on either way. Sorry am getting off the subject.
On cost it was the Lecht that had limp burgers and pot noodles so you're right I shouldn't say that is all of Scottish skiing. Actyually past few winters we did the 'staff Xmas lunch' on a Cairngorm funicular and silver service meal deal and it was brilliant both times. You could always debate cost at any resort. But that day at The lecht we did fork out over £100 for the two of us in fuwel, tickets, rentals and little lunch and only got a few hours on the snow for that (In part our fauklt as had to be back to pivck up kids from school at 3.30 so had paid for three hours more than we could take - but no deal for us on limited hours, another issue that many other resorts outside the UK address)
I do do this annual study of ticket cost (6 day) at 500 ski areas in 40 countries (eg see: http://www.ifyouski.com/news/newsarticle/?objectid=8204515 ) and in that Scotland comes in the top 10 most expensive countries on average price. But then how many people buy a 6 day Scottish pass and the ticket price is only a part of the cost anyway? Plus they have a tricky time of course ensuring that when there is snow, they can maximise income. I suppose what I'm saying is that compared to most other ski areas in europe for example, you are paying at the top-end for low-end quality, usually, of uplift equipment, snow preparation etc. I can see WHY it costs what it does, but it still comes in quite pricy.
Your final paras are all true. The Scottish ski areas are mostly good on getting alerts out to those who subscribe to them (although these could have a lot more in them to really hook the readers - print this ad and get a fiver off or something) but it does seem to be a sort of closed circle of the 'in crowd' on both media and joe public. The same writers in The Scotsman and Herald run similar stories each winter but I'm never aware of any drive to expand it. And as you say the costs to do so are virtually nil - best way is definiely email and again, as you say, making the most of Scotland as a DIFFERENT destination and a virtue of the fact it isn't like everywhere else. Once you accept that, it sells itself.
I'm on hundreds of ski arera mailing lists all over the world. From some of these I know there has been the first new season snow in Australia and New Zealand and big late falls in Alberta and Colorado in the past 72 hours. I only know about snow in Scotland this week by looking out of the window, which most people can't do. From looking out of the window I'm tempted to hit the slopes every day, and i wonder how many more peopkle would be, if only they knew!
They could run press trips too, highlighting all activities possible. All they've got to do it take the hacks on a few distillery tours and they'd be putty in their hands...
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