 Poster: A snowHead
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| Tom from Austria wrote: |
| II wrote: |
that looks very tireing  |
My video from Les 2 Alpes is bad, but it shows at least fast turns performed with minimum strength.
The slope there was very hard and 50 degrees steep (end of April).
Just imagine somebody on fat skis running the same trace: jumping and skidding. This makes tired. |
Yes its bad, an no the slope is NOT 50 degrees.
On a 50 degree slope skiing the line shown you would reach over 100miles an hour, bumping into your cameraman with lethal force... and i mean lethal without the daggers on the rear.
I'm with the doctor up in the thread and hope to NEVER see this ski outside the museum.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Ronald wrote: |
.. the slope is NOT 50 degrees.
On a 50 degree slope skiing the line shown you would reach over 100miles an hour |
You are exaggerating little bit. Running in fall line you would reach 60-70miles/hr on fat ski over this short distance.
But this ski is not fat, rather it has these hated metal fins braking like a hell.
The slope is on 3100m in Les 2 Alpes, situated left of the leftmost piste.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Tom from Austria, There does appear to be a lot of leaning back. Does this tire out the quad muscles?
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Wow, talk about giving the guy a roasting  Just my two pennorth but.....
So what is at the root of all this antipathy to this guy and his invention? To be fair to him I don't feel he's spamming (he's not selling anything), at worst he is 'market testing' to see how skiers react to his ideas (sorry Tom, prognosis doesn't seem good!  ).
I'm not sure that these skis are vastly more dangerous than any of the other weird and wonderful devices people strap to themselves before launching down a hill, (Those snow bikes look like a recipe for disaster to me ), although I defer to the medics who seem to thing that having a serrated blade strapped to your feet could be a tad antisocial.
I think a more legitimate criticism is that to ski on these things and use the 'jet tail' approach goes counter to everything we have learned about keeping weight balanced/forward and engaging our edges. When 'carvers' first came out they enabled less skillful skiers to do more easily what experts had learned to do on 'straights'. They were clearly an 'improvement' and a refinement. These things seem to reverse the rules and encourage habits that would have unfortunate consequences on carvers.
But really, the overriding reason that we are all frothing at the mouth with condemnation, the true explanation for all the derision voiced here, is undoubtedly, in my mind, that skiing on them makes you look like a complete muppet - On the Pot, arms flailing, no elegance, no grace. Sorry Tom but if you want to actually sell these things its back to the drawing board and try to look 'cool' when demoing them. 
(But full marks anyway for trying to break the mould). 
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| Tom from Austria wrote: |
| Lost the self-control, doctor ? It happens sometimes. In all 150 TGR posts together there were less abuses than in your single post. |
stoatsbrother Impressive, more abusive than TGR. Fair play.
| Tom from Austria wrote: |
| But you didn't answer my question: why is skating an official sport discipline ? |
Skating is completely different. That's like saying but they have "spikes in running shoes why can't you use them for wrestling"?
And don't forget that in one of the most popular forms of skating, ice hockey, every square cm of body is covered in armour and it isn't just because of the puck...
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AxsMan, nice post and agreed.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| parlor wrote: |
| Tom from Austria wrote: |
| Do you really think you could compete with any of thousand plus Firngleiter riders from Austria in a steep couloir ? |
...I'd take on the best two of your thousand riders if you like.. |
You will lose, parlor.
For 40 years there has lived an alternative technique of riding steep couloirs,
kept in all silence by thousands of firngleiters.
This technique will strike back soon, fueled by high-tech firngleiter.
Do not think your ski school wisdom is all-mighty.
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Tom from Austria, The ski looks quite ridiculous and ugly. The ski performs poorly from the promotional video. The skiing looks very tiring. I do not think that any serious professional skier will endorce this product which means they are dead in the market place. I agree with Stoatsbrother that these look dangerous and will quickly be banned by major resorts. I give respect and credit to the designer of these skis for daring to try something innovative and exciting but he/she has failed and now needs to stop wasting time flogging a dead horse and move on to their next invention..... Go Gadget Go.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Tom from Austria wrote: |
| parlor wrote: |
| Tom from Austria wrote: |
| Do you really think you could compete with any of thousand plus Firngleiter riders from Austria in a steep couloir ? |
...I'd take on the best two of your thousand riders if you like.. |
You will lose, parlor.
For 40 years there has lived an alternative technique of riding steep couloirs,
kept in all silence by thousands of firngleiters.
This technique will strike back soon, fueled by high-tech firngleiter.
Do not think your ski school wisdom is all-mighty. |
What a load of cods-wallop. Also so what ..... if the 1% of the ski community that rides extra steep and very dangerous couloirs all decide that this is a product from the heavens then it would still be commercially unmarketable.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Tom from Austria wrote: |
Fact is that fins improve speed and direction control dramatically |
if thats the case tom. What the hell was that guy in the video skiing on ?
I would hate to see him on normal ski's if thats him with his "speed and direction control dramatically improved" !
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You know it makes sense.
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| Tom from Austria, There does appear to be a lot of leaning back. Does this tire out the quad muscles? |
Yes, Frosty the Snowman, on a hard piste it is actually tiring.
Surely not on powder or any other soft snow.
But there is a chapter in our homepage www.raxski.com named "Glacier".
This model has two gliding surfaces, the second one starting under the heel.
It was first tested yesterday, Nov 18.
Here the fins carve when you are in neutral position and the ski glides if you are slightly leaning forward. "Glacier" loves ice and hard piste. Leaning back is here not defined at all.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Tom from Austria wrote: |
| parlor wrote: |
| Tom from Austria wrote: |
| Do you really think you could compete with any of thousand plus Firngleiter riders from Austria in a steep couloir ? |
...I'd take on the best two of your thousand riders if you like.. |
You will lose, parlor.
For 40 years there has lived an alternative technique of riding steep couloirs,
kept in all silence by thousands of firngleiters.
This technique will strike back soon, fueled by high-tech firngleiter.
Do not think your ski school wisdom is all-mighty. |
Anytime Tom. I've been skiing for a few years now, and have seen lots of other people ski, I think I would have noticed a thousand Austrians on weird skis.
To be fair, I'm slightly scared by the prospect of someone being prepared to stand at the top of a "steep coloir" in those skis. They must be mad.
Still, I am prepared. You might have to come here, I prefer to ski on home territory if I'm racing some maniacs in a coloir.
edit: I like the name firngleiters, it sounds like something from star wars. No jet packs allowed, OK?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| parlor wrote: |
| Good night Vienna. |
Thanks, good night to you too.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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plectrum, agreed but perfect control though
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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DB, gut appetite.
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| parlor wrote: |
| DB, gut appetite. |
Mahlzeit 
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Tom from Austria,
So they make skiing easier (especially in powder) but look like you would have to be stoned to ride 'em. Have you considered posting in the snowBoarding section of snowheads? 
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Thanks, guys, for the general entertainment - this is truly the most hilarious thread!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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you should check out the TGR thread if you think this is good, someone has created a photo of them being used. On a pie! Its great, i just user searched "Tom from Austria"
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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ah that would be useful DB, thanks haha
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I would like to see what firngleiters do.
It seems they are along the same lines and leave a big trench in their wake.
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| Latchigo wrote: |
| I would like to see what firngleiters do. |
Well this is what they look like (on the Liechtenstein enthusiasts' site)
David
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You know it makes sense.
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DJ, Thanks. That certainly seems like a serious trench ! I must admit I was expecting something more ancient-looking.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Searched for "firngleiters" found this .....
| Quote: |
The Earliest Short Ski Instruction
The earliest instance of a serious short ski movement dates back to just before 1900, the era when the illustrious Austrian pioneer of the stem technique, Mathias Zdarsky, manufactured short skis. He was the first man in history to teach large ski classes (mostly at his home in Lilienfeld, 60 miles from Vienna). He abandoned seven-foot Norwegian skis in favor of his own five-footer (150 cm) for himself and his pupils. His pupils numbered in the thousands, but his five-footer disappeared after he stopped teaching.
The disappearance was mostly the doing of Zdarsky’s successor as the leader of alpine technique innovation, Hannes Schneider of St. Anton, essentially the man whose decisions directed all Austrian and German ski schools in the 1920s and 1930s. Zdarsky’s stem was the basis of Schneider’s system but Schneider’s decision was: the Zdarsky stem, yes; the Zdarsky five-footer, no.
There was a second introduction of short skis at the time that involved Schneider even more closely. In World War I, Austrian mountain troops, instructed by Schneider, used a standard six-foot ski. But when he returned to his ski school after the war, Schneider continued to require pupils to use a seven-footer.
The pattern was set. Even while the 20th century was still young, there had been two instances already of short-ski initiatives that just disappeared, poof!
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http://skiinghistory.org/Taylor.html
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Poster: A snowHead
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Gotta admit that I don't understand what Firngleiten has got to do with flailing down steep couloirs and looking uncool Firn-gleiten is the ( wonderful ) act of gliding on Firn, or gliding on a thin layer of slush on a hard base. As enjoyable as skiing fresh powder, but completely effortless!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I wonder if using the RAX makes you feel as stupid as it makes you look
I also wondered what it has to do with skiing off piste on "spring" snow
( which is what I undertood firn gleiten to mean ? )
Not the use of tiny fat "figl" or "bigfeet" type foot jewellery !
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Latchigo wrote: |
I would like to see what firngleiters do.
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A TGR member wrote:
Originally Posted by keksie
these skis are obviously derived from the mad austrian "firngleiters", very short skis that you can still see around the local hills in the late spring when theres a lot of soft corn snow around. with those inventions of devil you can only control your speed by leaning backwards which makes the tails dig in to the snow (the tails are usually very short or non-existant). people using those can be seen in bigger groups, following each other around the hill and creating upwards of 50cm deep runnels..
you can imagine my bewildernment during my first season here in austria when i slightly hungover dragged myself the local hill for some afternoon corn skiing and noticed that i was the ONLY person with normal skis on the hill. i hadnt seen "firngleiters" before and i had no  idea what they were, but everyone had these ancient looking metal things attached to their feet, and all of them were chuckling at my amusement. as i mentioned earlier the way you ski those is to point them straight down the fall line and dig in the tails, and then just hope that the speed wont get too high. now imagine about 50 austrians screaming and jodling while coming down some quite steep chutes with no control at all.. oh the horror
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Mike Lawrie, Nealglover, It is all in DBs url :-
The First Short Short Ski Appears
In the 1930s, a growing number of alpine skiers began exploring the high Alps, inventing the first short short alpine ski in the process. It was the firngleiter (firn means “corn or old glacier snow” in German and gleiter means “glider”). Firngleiters triggered a ski school program using short skis, ten years ahead of Clif Taylor’s short ski program.
The firngleiter was a stubby home-made ski two to three feet long (50 cm to 90 cm) and six inches wide. It was (still is) used to ski narrow, snowfilled couloirs and corn snow on the glaciers.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| parlor wrote: |
.....Still, I am prepared. You might have to come here, I prefer to ski on home territory if I'm racing some maniacs in a coloir.
edit: I like the name firngleiters, it sounds like something from star wars. No jet packs allowed, OK? |
Thank you for the invitation, parlor. I will try to come to Verbier and announce it before.
Several weeks in LaGrave are already fixed.
If you ask why I am doing that: former enemies can become the best friends in couloirs.
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Tom from Austria,
Can I ask a question .... when you are on an extremely steep couloir and you are on your edges skidding down a bit becuase it is life threatenly steep. How do you stop these blades jamming into the ice / snow like crampons and sending you hurtling down to your death.
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Tom from Austria, congratulations on your entrepreneurial spirit, and innovation in trying to make a better ski. As they're obviously prototypes, I don't feel that you're spamming, and this thread has certainly been entertaining. Please do not be put off by the heated reception that you've received here.
However there are a few problems with your design-
The safety issue of the fins attached to the ski, they could seriously injure someone, perhaps even the person wearing them.
The skier in your demo video looks like he's doing an impression of a decent skier, rather than actually skiing well. It would be more impressive to see him completing his turns rather than waggling around like a mogul skier.
What happens when you ski over a submerged rock, as frequently happens off piste? At best the fin would break, at worst it'd break and you'd be thrown off?
Similarly as often happens off piste, if you're sat back doing jet turns, and something slows your skis, you're going to be thrown forward, creating instability and also disengaging the fins from the snow.
Similarly on extreme steeps, it's going to be very difficult to jump turn these skis with their fins stuck in the snow. If your weight is forwards, then your effective edge is very short.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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However it may be worth PMing Kiwi1, he's a fan of importing low volume boutique brands!
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| Kramer wrote: |
Tom from Austria, congratulations on your entrepreneurial spirit, and innovation in trying to make a better ski. As they're obviously prototypes, I don't feel that you're spamming, and this thread has certainly been entertaining. Please do not be put off by the heated reception that you've received here.
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Agreed.
I am not entirely sure there is a safety issue either. The ski has brakes and all standard skis have sharp edges.
I would be interested to see it in deep snow or in the end of season firn situation.
I do not take everything written on TGR as the ultimate word on skiing.
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FAQ
