 Poster: A snowHead
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As a kid who had fis code drummed into them from the get go. We took great pride in the unspoken art of faking a fall just above the other class and careering into them a over t. Taking out the most, domino style. Most takeouts won the bus tunes home. But we were 12 and we knew not to endanger or be reckless in front of anyone else.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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What do you think of a shout from behind 'on your left / right' ?
As a lifelong Fis code follower my gut reaction is to think "so what" you are uphill and trying to pass me, do what you need to and i will hold my course and pattern.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@essex, I think that genuinely sometimes you can be pushed into a situation where you just need to go past. Especially on a busy piste, or where 2 pistes merge, it is plausible that you end up next to somebody, you can't slow down because they're on one side of you and the fence / big F.O drop is on the other side, and the safest thing to do, regardless of FIS rules, is to shout 'on your left' and get past in whatever space is left.
Habitually, or expecting people to comply, no. You have to take responsibility even if that means putting a stop on a really good run, you can't expect to shout it out and for people to automatically comply. But if you hear it I think it's sensible to comply, rather than stubbornly thinking "so what" if nothing other than the selfish fact that if you go along with it you're less likely to end up in hospital...
In an ideal world, such scenarios would only concern otherwise decent people who had a genuine reason to have to pass rather than slow down. But of course, every time the human race finds something which is good when used responsibly, the international institution of pisstakers signs up for lifetime membership.
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Yes i do try to respect the call if i hear it but rarely if ever have i shouted that myself.
Just worries me that those who use it (i assume) think it will clear a way for them. Its not something i hear from out of control intermediates, more often fast and capable skiers basically saying 'coming through, make a hole'.
Other thing is if i am doing a nice rythmic left right swoop and not taking too much piste, is it not better for me to keep my predictable pattern going? That is what i would prefer from a skier ahead i want to pass.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I think it's literally a case of what we've already spoken about. There are unfortunately too many inconsiderate assholes on the pistes who do not have a care in the world for the enjoyment, safety, or otherwise welfare of other people. They're out to have a laugh and they have absolutely no concern as to what this might cost other people. So they shout because in their minds, they're entitled to go as fast as they like and it's other peoples' responsibility to accommodate that.
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| Quote: |
I am often pulled up by people asking why I ski off piste, because it's dangerous with avalanches and trees and rocks and that sort of thing.
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Yes yes. Sure you are. And they say how great a skier you are also. 
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dp:- So you shout in ENGLISH in a EUROPEAN resort full of oh lets say FRENCH/GERMAN/ITALIAN/SWISS/ or any other multitude of nationalities? and expect them to take notice of you? How arrogant. Precisely the attitude that gets sensible English speaking people a bad name. Wake up. YOU are the one behind it is 100% YOUR responsibility to be in control! Regardless of any fence or 'big FO drop'. REALLY!
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| geeo wrote: |
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I am often pulled up by people asking why I ski off piste, because it's dangerous with avalanches and trees and rocks and that sort of thing.
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Yes yes. Sure you are. And they say how great a skier you are also. |
You what?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Old Man Of Lech wrote: |
| dp:- So you shout in ENGLISH in a EUROPEAN resort full of oh lets say FRENCH/GERMAN/ITALIAN/SWISS/ or any other multitude of nationalities? and expect them to take notice of you? How arrogant. Precisely the attitude that gets sensible English speaking people a bad name. Wake up. YOU are the one behind it is 100% YOUR responsibility to be in control! Regardless of any fence or 'big FO drop'. REALLY! |
Er, what?
I do believe that I said:
| dp wrote: |
| I think it's literally a case of what we've already spoken about. There are unfortunately too many inconsiderate assholes on the pistes who do not have a care in the world for the enjoyment, safety, or otherwise welfare of other people. They're out to have a laugh and they have absolutely no concern as to what this might cost other people. So they shout because in their minds, they're entitled to go as fast as they like and it's other peoples' responsibility to accommodate that. |
I don't think that REALLY condones it, does it? In fact I would say quite the opposite, it very much condemns it.
So what are you attempting to have a go at me about?
I made it clear that it was something you only might need to do in exceptional circumstances. Exceptional circumstances are exceptional because they do not apply to the rules of normality.
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| dp wrote: |
| geeo wrote: |
| Quote: |
I am often pulled up by people asking why I ski off piste, because it's dangerous with avalanches and trees and rocks and that sort of thing.
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Yes yes. Sure you are. And they say how great a skier you are also. |
You what? |
You're talking a lot of crap.. Clear enough?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| essex wrote: |
What do you think of a shout from behind 'on your left / right' ?
As a lifelong Fis code follower my gut reaction is to think "so what" you are uphill and trying to pass me, do what you need to and i will hold my course and pattern. |
No, you shouldn't do it. If you have to do it it's almost certainly because you're in the wrong, so you should avoid getting in that situation in the first place. It might be ineffective because of language issues, or just because the shout might not be heard, so what do you do then? Hit the person in front because you have no other options? It might also make the situation worse by causing panic in a nervous skier.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| dp wrote: |
| @essex, I think that genuinely sometimes you can be pushed into a situation where you just need to go past. |
Need or want?
You should always have the option of being able to slow down or safely pass. If you don't have that option you have not left yourself enough room.
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Getting past someone is very easy,
First slow down to their speed and ski behind them,
Next when they make their next turn,say left,
You go the opposite way and go past.
Simples.
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You know it makes sense.
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| essex wrote: |
What do you think of a shout from behind 'on your left / right' ?
As a lifelong Fis code follower my gut reaction is to think "so what" you are uphill and trying to pass me, do what you need to and i will hold my course and pattern. |
Yeah I'll say occasionally when I get a body language cue that it might help in the appropriate language for the country ( which let's face it doesn't really work in France when your Random Ronnie might just as well be a Brit or Cloggie). Tends to be on cat tracks where I try to take the uphill (bank side). If someone wants to swerve uphill just as you're passing can be difficult so what's the harm in letting them know you're there - it's only like being a wing mirror for them. Of course any user of this will know a certain percentage of the population will hear "left" and reflexively turn in that direction so it's still sporting.  Not involving shouting or assuming it will be respected or even heard ( let's face it there are enough people skiing with ear buds)[/spoiler]
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Sat 14-01-17 9:39; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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In all my 100s of days skiing, not once have i encountered the scenario you are describing.
I would always take evasive action regardless of the stupidity of the person im avoiding based on the fact that slamming into someone at high speed would in all likelihood result in more injuries to both of us.
Unless youre skiing 2m from a cliff or a tree with broken/spikey branches, I dont get what these huge risks of taking evasive action could be. Even if the person in front is in the wrong, even if i lose an edge and take a controlled/sliding fall...i dont see what the big deal is. Lighten up man!
Of course, if the person im avoiding did something really dumb, id console myself with hurling a torrent of foul mouthed abuse their way or say "You owe me a weissbeer" 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| dp wrote: |
| @essex, I think that genuinely sometimes you can be pushed into a situation where you just need to go past. |
Need or want?
You should always have the option of being able to slow down or safely pass. |
Well thanks for stating the obvious. When I said "exceptional circumstances"... is that concept really just too much to take in?
I'm on about doing something in a circumstance when you have absolutely no other choice... yet everyone responds like it's a daily occurrence. Wait no, not even daily. I must pass everyone that way, right?
So I'll say again... you as a skier should take notice if somebody shouts, because you don't know why they're in the situation they're in, but you should try avoiding being hit on a matter of principle.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Look - I have been in collisions which have been my fault. I'm Not whiter than white
And mistakes happen. I've been a little too quick, a little too close meaning I didn't leave enough room for error. But on those couple of occasions I have been embarrassed, apologetic and made sure the other skier has been OK.
What I am scathing about is people who don't accept responsibility and treat a collision as just one of those things or even a joke.
Incidentally I chose not to speculate about the specific tragic accident because I didn't have enough facts.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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(duplicate post)
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Mon 16-01-17 12:16; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| essex wrote: |
What do you think of a shout from behind 'on your left / right' ?
As a lifelong Fis code follower my gut reaction is to think "so what" you are uphill and trying to pass me, do what you need to and i will hold my course and pattern. |
I've used it when skiing narrow tracks at a similar speed to someone, but only ever to someone that I'm skiing with to let them know I'm there. Usually when my tips are alongside their skis but I'm out of their periphial vision 
I also like to tap my poles together on those flat, narrow tracks when I'm near people. That's nothing to do with passing them thoug, just to give an awareness that there is someone near them. I actually like it when others do the same when they come up behind me.
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Look - I have been in collisions which have been my fault. I'm Not whiter than white
And mistakes happen. I've been a little too quick, a little too close meaning I didn't leave enough room for error. But on those couple of occasions I have been embarrassed, apologetic and made sure the other skier has been OK.
What I am scathing about is people who don't accept responsibility and treat a collision as just one of those things or even a joke.
Incidentally I chose not to speculate about the specific tragic accident because I didn't have enough facts.
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| Quote: |
Look - I have been in collisions which have been my fault.
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'collisions' plural. You have an IQ lower than your DIN setting.
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| Pruman wrote: |
| Quote: |
Look - I have been in collisions which have been my fault.
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'collisions' plural. You have an IQ lower than your DIN setting. |
With reference to a previous post I made. I think you really need to wind it in. People having genuine discussions here whilst you prance around on your high horse telling everyone they're dangerous isn't big and isn't clever it's just childish and pathetic and shows that you probably have a tiny gentleman sausage.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@dp, I won't mess with you because you have a bit of a violent streak. By your own admission you think its OK to barge smaller people out of the way (note: not bigger people) and the guy you are defending goes around having multiple collisions that are his own fault. The genuine discussion is why are you both so colossally thick?
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@dp, can you give an example of an exceptional circumstance where you are in the process of overtaking and need to shout to alert them of your presence or actions?
I teach a number of very cautious skiers, and know all too well how much of their focus is behind them when it should be on their own movements and what's in front of them. Sudden, unexpected noises from behind such as a shouted instruction can frighten them, making it more likely that they do something unexpected.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Sat 14-01-17 15:34; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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By the time someone is close enough for a shout to heard, some time to compute err what's that, it's too late
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| dp wrote: |
| Well thanks for stating the obvious. When I said "exceptional circumstances"... is that concept really just too much to take in? |
As you asked so nicely, just wondering if you saw in my previous post where I said that if you have to shout "it's almost certainly because you're in the wrong". The words 'almost certain' were chosen to allow those pedantically inclined to dream up the most obscure circumstance in which shouting at somebody in front of you is the right option.
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I've certainly had trouble getting past very slow skiers weaving back and forth on cat tracks taking up the whole thing with no clue that there's a queue forming behind them. In that situation i reckon it's just fine to alert them to your presence.
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You know it makes sense.
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| jjams82 wrote: |
| In that situation i reckon it's just fine to alert them to your presence. |
No, I don't think it is fine. They are entitled to ski in that way should they choose, as frustrating as it is for people behind them. Pass them safely or be patient for a few seconds until you can pass them with sufficient space. Shouting at people to get out of the way seems bad mannered, and possibly counterproductive.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| jjams82 wrote: |
| In that situation i reckon it's just fine to alert them to your presence. |
No, I don't think it is fine. They are entitled to ski in that way should they choose, as frustrating as it is for people behind them. Pass them safely or be patient for a few seconds until you can pass them with sufficient space. Shouting at people to get out of the way seems bad mannered, and possibly counterproductive. |
Christ, it's not like i'm screaming at them to get out of the way, just a polite cough so they know i'm there. Once one is stuck behind a skier like that it's almost impossible to get up the speed required to pass with they're at one side or the other.
Plus, if they're entitled to ski however they want no matter how frustrating to others, then so am I! (I'm not, and neither are they, or anyone).
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Poster: A snowHead
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@jjams82, leaving aside for one moment that a polite cough is unlikely to be heard, what do you want the person in front of you to do with the information that there is somebody behind them?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| @jjams82, leaving aside for one moment that a polite cough is unlikely to be heard, what do you want the person in front of you to do with the information that there is somebody behind them? |
Make slightly shorter turns leaving a meter or two on one side of the piste so the queue can pass.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| jjams82 wrote: |
| Plus, if they're entitled to ski however they want no matter how frustrating to others, then so am I! |
Not really, there's a well established convention, described in the FIS code for skiers, that if you are behind somebody it is your responsibility to pass them safely. Your responsibility. That doesn't include an audible warning which gives them responsibility to act in a particular way.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Sat 14-01-17 16:16; edited 1 time in total
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It's worked before, and i give a polite nod/wave/thumbs up of gratitude as I pass, and everyone is happy.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| jjams82 wrote: |
| rob@rar wrote: |
| @jjams82, leaving aside for one moment that a polite cough is unlikely to be heard, what do you want the person in front of you to do with the information that there is somebody behind them? |
Make slightly shorter turns leaving a meter or two on one side of the piste so the queue can pass. |
So you are requiring them to ski in a specific way for your benefit, by given them a verbal warning?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| jjams82 wrote: |
| Plus, if they're entitled to ski however they want no matter how frustrating to others, then so am I! |
Not really, there's a well established convention, derived in the FUS code for skiers, that if you are behind somebody it is your responsibility to pass them safely. Your responsibility. That doesn't include an audible warning which gives them responsibility to act in a particular way. |
Well, yes, obviously, hence the later bit that no of course i'm not entitled to ski (board) however I want regardless of others, but i've never had any negative response once i pass with a polite thankyou so i'll keep on doing it where unavoidable:)
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| jjams82 wrote: |
| Once one is stuck behind a skier like that it's almost impossible to get up the speed required to pass with they're at one side or the other. |
That's not my experience, if the skier or boarder is travelling slowly and weaving from one side to the other I find it's very easy to slow down to close to their speed and then pass them simply by rolling from edge to edge rather than skidding your skis, as the person in front will be doing. Although the best option is to not get so close to them that you have to slow down, but plan your overtake from further out, just like we do when driving a car on the road.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| jjams82 wrote: |
| rob@rar wrote: |
| @jjams82, leaving aside for one moment that a polite cough is unlikely to be heard, what do you want the person in front of you to do with the information that there is somebody behind them? |
Make slightly shorter turns leaving a meter or two on one side of the piste so the queue can pass. |
So you are requiring them to ski in a specific way for your benefit, by given them a verbal warning? |
Yes, i am king of the mountain, and any who block me will be commanded to f-off or suffer the consequences.
I'm a considerate (imho) mountain user, I keep an eye uphill, get out of the way for others I'm in the same situation, and i suspect most people if they knew there was a queue behind them would do (and in my limited experience always have done) the same.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| jjams82 wrote: |
| Once one is stuck behind a skier like that it's almost impossible to get up the speed required to pass with they're at one side or the other. |
That's not my experience, if the skier or boarder is travelling slowly and weaving from one side to the other I find it's very easy to slow down to close to their speed and then pass them simply by rolling from edge to edge rather than skidding your skis, as the person in front will be doing. Although the best option is to not get so close to them that you have to slow down, but plan your overtake from further out, just like we do when driving a car on the road. |
Agreed on a quicker well timed pass, but ya know, these things still happen:)
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I suspect being on a board doesn't help, as i've no poles for an instant burst of speed from walking pace to passing pace.. But being on a board does also make it easier to see uphill and know when to move out of the way of others so it's swings and roundabouts eh.
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