 Poster: A snowHead
|
| Quote: |
I'd like to see you skiing with sunnies and wind in your hair in Lake Louise at -30C Smile
|
I've done exactly that. I did grow my beard a bit for extra protection though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Pruman wrote: |
| Quote: |
I'd like to see you skiing with sunnies and wind in your hair in Lake Louise at -30C
|
I have done so there and in other places like Vermont and Finland but wear a hat with hood over the top. |
That's hardly wind in your hair either then! Anyway it's my face that usually gets cold on those days and that's where those full face helmets are probably really good. Haven't tried one though, but I'd consider it IF the face guard is removable. Otherwise no.
On an average BC ski day (-5 to -15C) a normal open faced helmet is normally the most comfortable option for me, probably why 99% of people out there usually wear one. It might be a different story if it was genuinely warm and sunny, but I've never had that issue!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| musher wrote: |
| Quote: |
I'd like to see you skiing with sunnies and wind in your hair in Lake Louise at -30C Smile
|
I've done exactly that. I did grow my beard a bit for extra protection though. |
yeah I bet that was fun!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| That's hardly wind in your hair either then! |
Well, no it sure isn't, but I'm more thinking about a sunny spring day in the alps when encasing your head in foam and plastic is shutting out the good stuff.
For many a helmet is surely about warmth rather than protection because they soon switch to no helmet in the Spring sun.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
@uktrailmonster,
It was bloody cold but that was in the days before I had a helmet & goggles. At least they were glacier style sunnies with the leather patches at the sides 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| It might be a different story if it was genuinely warm and sunny, but I've never had that issue! |
| Pruman wrote: |
| For many a helmet is surely about warmth rather than protection because they soon switch to no helmet in the Spring sun. |
Count me in as one who wore helmet mostly for warmth than safety. Granted, the added safety side benefit is clearly NOT a deterrent.
What is "warm" and "cold" however, differs from person to person.
I love helmets when it's near or below freezing mark. But at around +10C is when I put away my helmet. Plenty of people still kept their lid on even on those days!
Then, there were those who got all "hot under the collar" with the thought of having to wear A HELMET at -10C!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| snowheads68 wrote: |
| Presumably people where helmets to go the bars in the evening. Very real danger of hitting one's head on the pavement, especially in icy conditions. |
This is one of my personal favourite silly arguments against wearing a helmet. I suppose if you are a complete wee wee-head with a history of Friday night A&E head injury visits, then yes a helmet would probably be a good idea for your stagger home.
Oh and you don't "where" a helmet BTW. |
It's not an argument against, it's an argument for.
For wearing them on the way to the pub and back. Real chance of hitting your head on the pavement. Best be sure. No need for a history of this. Just needs to happen once.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Wear a helmet. Or don't wear a helmet. Whatever.
I don't care what anybody else thinks about me not wearing one. Nor do I give a toss if anybody else wears one or not.
My head therefore my decision. Your head therefore your decision.
I'm always amazed when a personal choice that has no impact on anybody else garners so many responses.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| swiftoid wrote: |
I'm always amazed when a personal choice that has no impact on anybody else garners so many responses. |
I, on the other hand, are not surprised at the heated debate.
People are always trying to impose their decision upon others. Out of love, because they 1) believe their decision is the best; 2) because they CARE ABOUT others sharing their best decision.
When their offer of care and love was rebuffed, they got really REALLY annoyed. Then the debate got heated and totally irrational.
Not just helmet. Fat ski, avi gear, NOT straying off the edge of the piste without a guide, buying property or buying oil as investment etc... the list goes on
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| swiftoid wrote: |
| a personal choice that has no impact on anybody else garners so many responses. |
Im with you all the way about personal choice and I truly believe it is your absolute right to wear or not wear.
What I dont believe is how you feel it doesn't impact others.
I have a wife and a young son. I must admit I now have more protective kit, not for my own safety necessarily but because I dont want my son to lose his father or wife to have to look after a vegetable.
Whether a helmet will or wont save me is immaterial to me, but the least I can do is try everything I can to to make myself safe for my family, whilst still doing the hobby I love.
Of course some dont have family, so their views will be somewhat different.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| Quote: |
I have a wife and a young son. I must admit I now have more protective kit, not for my own safety necessarily but because I dont want my son to lose his father or wife to have to look after a vegetable.
|
Didn't do Schumacher's wife much good, my ex wife would quite happily see me come home in a box!, even when we were married. when I used to have a day out on my motorbike, when I got back, you could see the disappointment in her face that it was me on the bike pulling into the gate rather than a police car.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
@tangowaggon, now I know why she's your ex wife.
My wife's under strict instructions to turn me off if I don't pull through. Whilst its schumies wife's decision, that's not how id want to be, but bless her she's doing what's right for them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
because I dont want my son to lose his father or wife to have to look after a vegetable.
|
| Quote: |
My wife's under strict instructions to turn me off if I don't pull through.
|
@PaulC1984, Well, if you don't pull through you don't need turning off but, that's a mere detail, what kind of freakin' ski trips do you go on? I you really are in such danger then a helmet isn't going to prevent all that. Skiing is statistically safer than crossing the road, way safer than riding a bike and I'm told there are more head injuries in golf. I wouldn't know but it seems to me that the danger has been blown out of all proportion by the industry that makes and sells protective gear, helped in spades by a media who loves nothing more than a celebrity ski accident. As you are far more likely to die or be vegetablised by something other than skiing I highly recommend a big fat life insurance policy to provide for those left behind.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
What is "warm" and "cold" however, differs from person to person.
Very true, for me, the unlined hood of my ski jacket held in place by goggles kept my head warm enough on the coldest of ski days, my new jacket has a lining in the hood and this gets too hot, even on the coldest days, I keep looking at the hoodto see if I can cut out the llining without destroying the jacket.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
@Pruman, I've been skiing a long time, I'm very experienced and I don't ski slowly. I've not fallen in a very long time, but I'm not stupid enough to believe I will never fall. I ski on and off piste, so with all of that in mind my chances of injury when I do fall are greatly increased than your average on slope pootler. I've also grown up wearing helmets through racing and really don't notice wearing them - in fact I feel somewhat naked if I'm not wearing one.
Regards insurance policy, yes I have one that will provide very well for the family, but this is hardly a substitute for a husband or father
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| abc wrote: |
| But at around +10C is when I put away my helmet. |
pffff...... I put away all my ski gear at that point and get the mountain bike out instead.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| snowheads68 wrote: |
| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| snowheads68 wrote: |
| Presumably people where helmets to go the bars in the evening. Very real danger of hitting one's head on the pavement, especially in icy conditions. |
This is one of my personal favourite silly arguments against wearing a helmet. I suppose if you are a complete wee wee-head with a history of Friday night A&E head injury visits, then yes a helmet would probably be a good idea for your stagger home.
Oh and you don't "where" a helmet BTW. |
It's not an argument against, it's an argument for.
For wearing them on the way to the pub and back. Real chance of hitting your head on the pavement. Best be sure. No need for a history of this. Just needs to happen once. |
You funny funster 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| abc wrote: |
| But at around +10C is when I put away my helmet. |
pffff...... I put away all my ski gear at that point and get the mountain bike out instead. |
Good. The fewer Schattenparkers on the slopes the better.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| snowheads68 wrote: |
| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| abc wrote: |
| But at around +10C is when I put away my helmet. |
pffff...... I put away all my ski gear at that point and get the mountain bike out instead. |
Good. The fewer Schattenparkers on the slopes the better. |
Had to Google that one. Yeah you can have the slopes to yourself at +10C, no problem.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| abc wrote: |
| But at around +10C is when I put away my helmet. |
pffff...... I put away all my ski gear at that point and get the mountain bike out instead. |
The snow remains on the slope for at least another month at high elevation. And at lower elevation, the surface are typically a muddy mess. It's bad for the mountain to ride on muddy slopes...
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Not sure why comparisons with wearing a helmet for going out for a drink are deemed ridiculous. I'd place a bet that the odds of getting the kind of head injury that helmets are useful for is substantially higher walking on icy streets after a few drinks than it is skiing.
Alcohol is very strongly correlated with head injuries, probably make more sense to ban all alcohol from the resorts than to make helmets compulsory in all honesty.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@PaulC1984,
| Quote: |
What I dont believe is how you feel it doesn't impact others.
I have a wife and a young son. I must admit I now have more protective kit, not for my own safety necessarily but because I dont want my son to lose his father or wife to have to look after a vegetable.
|
Fair enough. I wasn't clear. I was referring to (mostly) strangers arguing about it on the internet. Wear one if you feel there is a benefit that outweighs the negatives. Don't if you feel differently. I choose not to but see no reason to get into a load of repetitive bickering about it with those who've made a different choice and whose choice will not impact me one bit.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
That is a great film.
Freewheel- yes: But telemark? NO NO NO (well possibly on little one at about 2:56). There have been quite serious disruptions about this sort of thing you know!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| abc wrote: |
| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| abc wrote: |
| But at around +10C is when I put away my helmet. |
pffff...... I put away all my ski gear at that point and get the mountain bike out instead. |
The snow remains on the slope for at least another month at high elevation. And at lower elevation, the surface are typically a muddy mess. It's bad for the mountain to ride on muddy slopes... |
I'm sure it is. But there are actually no mountains or snow where I go "mountain" biking. I still wear a helmet though!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| T Bar wrote: |
Not sure why comparisons with wearing a helmet for going out for a drink are deemed ridiculous. I'd place a bet that the odds of getting the kind of head injury that helmets are useful for is substantially higher walking on icy streets after a few drinks than it is skiing.
Alcohol is very strongly correlated with head injuries, probably make more sense to ban all alcohol from the resorts than to make helmets compulsory in all honesty. |
Well on that basis why would anyone bother wearing a helmet for horse riding, cycling, motorbiking, skateboarding, or anything else for that matter? This argument is usually presented along the lines of - if you choose to wear a ski helmet, then you should also wear a helmet for ANY pedestrian activity where you might possibly bang your head. Exactly the same argument is presented in mountain bike forums. Basically that if you wear a helmet for whatever sport, you should really wear a helmet every time you move. Anyway I still think it's a silly argument.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| swiftoid wrote: |
@PaulC1984,
| Quote: |
What I dont believe is how you feel it doesn't impact others.
I have a wife and a young son. I must admit I now have more protective kit, not for my own safety necessarily but because I dont want my son to lose his father or wife to have to look after a vegetable.
|
Fair enough. I wasn't clear. I was referring to (mostly) strangers arguing about it on the internet. Wear one if you feel there is a benefit that outweighs the negatives. Don't if you feel differently. I choose not to but see no reason to get into a load of repetitive bickering about it with those who've made a different choice and whose choice will not impact me one bit.
|
Yet you're prepared to argue about whether people should argue about it. Which is even more pointless.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| T Bar wrote: |
Not sure why comparisons with wearing a helmet for going out for a drink are deemed ridiculous. I'd place a bet that the odds of getting the kind of head injury that helmets are useful for is substantially higher walking on icy streets after a few drinks than it is skiing.
Alcohol is very strongly correlated with head injuries, probably make more sense to ban all alcohol from the resorts than to make helmets compulsory in all honesty. |
Well on that basis why would anyone bother wearing a helmet for horse riding, cycling, motorbiking, skateboarding, or anything else for that matter? This argument is usually presented along the lines of - if you choose to wear a ski helmet, then you should also wear a helmet for ANY pedestrian activity where you might possibly bang your head. Exactly the same argument is presented in mountain bike forums. Basically that if you wear a helmet for whatever sport, you should really wear a helmet every time you move. Anyway I still think it's a silly argument. |
Not every time you move. Who has said that?
What I find is silly is people who've been skiing for years without helmets suddenly wearing one and pretending it's all to do with logic and safety when it's mostly about the herd instinct. It's akin to a Muslim in Iran or a christian in the US trying to explain their attachment to their religion in logical terms.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| T Bar wrote: |
Not sure why comparisons with wearing a helmet for going out for a drink are deemed ridiculous. I'd place a bet that the odds of getting the kind of head injury that helmets are useful for is substantially higher walking on icy streets after a few drinks than it is skiing.
Alcohol is very strongly correlated with head injuries, probably make more sense to ban all alcohol from the resorts than to make helmets compulsory in all honesty. |
Well on that basis why would anyone bother wearing a helmet for horse riding, cycling, motorbiking, skateboarding, or anything else for that matter? This argument is usually presented along the lines of - if you choose to wear a ski helmet, then you should also wear a helmet for ANY pedestrian activity where you might possibly bang your head. Exactly the same argument is presented in mountain bike forums. Basically that if you wear a helmet for whatever sport, you should really wear a helmet every time you move. Anyway I still think it's
a silly argument. |
I don't think that it's a silly argument when you specify that it's about the risk/consequence/cost equation. The monetary cost of a ski or cycle helmet is low so the real cost is the discomfort of wearing one which varies from person to person
I dislike wearing hats of any kind so when I'm on my mountain bike with the kids on a level trail the risk of falling off or being hit is very low and the consequences of falling off at low speed are low so no helmet. Even on the level trails my youngest frequently falls off so I make her wear a helmet and she understands why I don't.
if I'm blasting some of the bike trails, the risk of falling off is much higher and there's a good chance of hitting my head on something hard so I wear a helmet
I hated skiing with a helmet, so cost is high in about 70 weeks on skis I have had no head injuries but a minor neck injury that would have been worse if I had been wearing a helmet so risk is low, probably similar to walking on an icy pavement, possibly negative, The risk of a fall is very high but the reality is that most of the surroundings are soft (I have hit my head numerous times but it's always been on something soft) so even though the consequence of a head injury is high, I choose not to wear a helmet. If I / you find it comfortable to wear a helmet, it makes sense to wear one.as the cost side of the equation is lower.
On a motorbike, legal requirements aside, the dynamics are very different to skiing and wearing a helmet on a motorbike is less uncomfortable than a ski helmet (Though I do remember my motocross helmet being soaked with sweat but at least I only had to wear it for 20 minutes) so cost is lower. The risk of falling off a motorbike is actually quite low but if you do, and your head hits something, that something is almost certainly going to be very hard so the consequences are very high.
The equation would look something like this
Cost (discomfort plus possible injuries caused directly and indirectly by a helmet)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ = Z where the level of Z determines whether to wear a helmet or not
Risk of a head impact X consequences of a head impact
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
I have a friend who was with his father boarding years ago. At very very low speed just off a lift I believe, his father fell back and hit his head. He went into a coma for several days and didn't make it through. I didn't know this friend at the time but I remember the pain in his eyes when recounting it to me. Somebody died and a family went through immeasurable pain. I've worn a helmet ever since my friend told me this story.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| tangowaggon wrote: |
I don't think that it's a silly argument when you specify that it's about the risk/consequence/cost equation. The monetary cost of a ski or cycle helmet is low so the real cost is the discomfort of wearing one which varies from person to person
I dislike wearing hats of any kind so when I'm on my mountain bike with the kids on a level trail the risk of falling off or being hit is very low and the consequences of falling off at low speed are low so no helmet. Even on the level trails my youngest frequently falls off so I make her wear a helmet and she understands why I don't.
if I'm blasting some of the bike trails, the risk of falling off is much higher and there's a good chance of hitting my head on something hard so I wear a helmet
I hated skiing with a helmet, so cost is high in about 70 weeks on skis I have had no head injuries but a minor neck injury that would have been worse if I had been wearing a helmet so risk is low, probably similar to walking on an icy pavement, possibly negative, The risk of a fall is very high but the reality is that most of the surroundings are soft (I have hit my head numerous times but it's always been on something soft) so even though the consequence of a head injury is high, I choose not to wear a helmet. If I / you find it comfortable to wear a helmet, it makes sense to wear one.as the cost side of the equation is lower.
On a motorbike, legal requirements aside, the dynamics are very different to skiing and wearing a helmet on a motorbike is less uncomfortable than a ski helmet (Though I do remember my motocross helmet being soaked with sweat but at least I only had to wear it for 20 minutes) so cost is lower. The risk of falling off a motorbike is actually quite low but if you do, and your head hits something, that something is almost certainly going to be very hard so the consequences are very high.
The equation would look something like this
Cost (discomfort plus possible injuries caused directly and indirectly by a helmet)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ = Z where the level of Z determines whether to wear a helmet or not
Risk of a head impact X consequences of a head impact |
I agree with this entirely. If I hated wearing a ski helmet I wouldn't wear one either because the risk is small enough for me to accept it. In fact I did just that for around 20 years and suffered 2 minor concussions during that time, which I'm pretty certain a decent helmet would have avoided based on similar incidents I've had since while wearing helmets over the last decade. I had one particularly nasty incident where I ended up banging the back of my head on ice and I'm so glad I was wearing a helmet. I still ended up with a stiff neck, but no concussion or head injury at all.
I can't believe you find a heavy (presumably full face) motorbike helmet more comfortable than a lightweight ski helmet! My current ski helmet is so comfortable I don't even notice it while skiing, apart from keeping my head nice and warm and I much prefer wearing ski goggles with a helmet vs hat. The latter combo I always hated!
Anyway, just to clarify, what I meant by "silly argument" was when it's presented as a smart arsed derogatory throw away comment by the anti-helmet brigade - as it most often is. Not as a sensibly reasoned position as you rightly state.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| snowheads68 wrote: |
| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| T Bar wrote: |
Not sure why comparisons with wearing a helmet for going out for a drink are deemed ridiculous. I'd place a bet that the odds of getting the kind of head injury that helmets are useful for is substantially higher walking on icy streets after a few drinks than it is skiing.
Alcohol is very strongly correlated with head injuries, probably make more sense to ban all alcohol from the resorts than to make helmets compulsory in all honesty. |
Well on that basis why would anyone bother wearing a helmet for horse riding, cycling, motorbiking, skateboarding, or anything else for that matter? This argument is usually presented along the lines of - if you choose to wear a ski helmet, then you should also wear a helmet for ANY pedestrian activity where you might possibly bang your head. Exactly the same argument is presented in mountain bike forums. Basically that if you wear a helmet for whatever sport, you should really wear a helmet every time you move. Anyway I still think it's a silly argument. |
Not every time you move. Who has said that?
What I find is silly is people who've been skiing for years without helmets suddenly wearing one and pretending it's all to do with logic and safety when it's mostly about the herd instinct. It's akin to a Muslim in Iran or a christian in the US trying to explain their attachment to their religion in logical terms. |
It's often implied by morons who think they are too "hard" or "cool" to be seen wearing a "wimpy" ski helmet. IME of helmet debates, it's nearly always intended as a derogatory throwaway comment.
The herd instinct I'll give you is probably true for people who have little brain of their own, but that's not why I personally started wearing a ski helmet after 20 years of skiing without one. For me it was mainly because they got a lot more comfortable and I started skiing in generally colder climates. I've long been at the point where I prefer to wear a ski helmet vs hat regardless of the safety aspect. Others may not and I respect that view.
I'm old enough to remember seat belts before inertia reels became standard issue. Static seat belts were a bit of a PITA to use, slightly uncomfortable as there was no give in them, and they often ended up as a tangled mess anyway. So many people simply didn't bother to wear them. By the time they became compulsory, the vast majority were inertia reel belts by that point and people quickly discovered that actually you don't even notice you are wearing one. I see a lot of similarities here with ski helmets. If people bothered to try a decent fitting modern quality ski helmet, I would bet that a fair number of them (not everyone) would be surprised at their inherent advantages over a hat and might end up wearing one out of choice, just like I did and many others too.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Yes. The best ski hat I have ever used. May also offer some protection in minor incidents. Good place to park goggles while answering phone/ looking at map without them steaming up. Made my choice. Other make different choices. Fine.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
After several years of her skiing without one, I helped convince my mum to get a helmet as she has an irrational fear of falling over. Now she wears one she sometimes worries over the fact I still wear my hat. Ha!
I am sure helmets are perfectly comfortable, but I like my beanies and don't see the point of changing for negligible benefit. I am worried though about people skiing out of control on overcrowded pistes, which is why I try to avoid much of Avoriaz
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
FFS STOP
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Well argued.
That has got to be the last word, I would say.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Is this a good time to mention I've just ordered a new helmet? I really like it, it's rather smart yet understated I feel. Will just have to keep it away from @dadmin, who stuck Snowheads stickers all over my last one.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| PaulC1984 wrote: |
| my helmet got abused too |
What happens in the boot room, stays in the boot room...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
