 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Sad to hear about these tragedies...but surely there's enough fun to be had in secured areas on and by the side of pistes without having to endanger your life (and any rescuers' lives) whilst risks remain acute after this huge snowfall.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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And an avalanche death in the Pyrenees too, yesterday in the small Spanish resort of Candanchú (in an area that was closed due to the very high avalanche risk).
It seems highly dangerous in many, many places in Europe right now. Stay safe.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Avalanche caused here yesterday.
'Snowboarder' decided it would be a good idea to try boarding down off piste between the avalanche fences. Clearly he didn't think why the fences are there in the first place.....to protect the busy piste below and arrest the flow of any avalanche. It would be obvious maybe to most that if the fences are there, then there is a considerable risk of an avalanche.
The Snowboarder was totally unprepared. Boarding alone, no helmet, no rucksack....so I assume no essential equipment and probably no transponder.
Gladly he didn't come to grief, nor did anyone else below. I had the perfect view of all events from a chairlift.
Sadly we all share the mountains with idiots like this.
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@stanton,Don't have enough German but if that guy was on the Imbachorn he was a whole mountain and valley off piste, literally off the map.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Are all of these off piste incidents?
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Mike-H wrote:
Are all of these off piste incidents?
For Austria Yes combination of Off-Piste, High Alpine Touring
http://www.tt.com/panorama/unfall/9647365-91/lawinen-forderten-diesen-winter-bisher-21-menschenleben.csp
Summary
Hans Ebner, Head of the Alpine Police for the Interior Ministry said...
The Tirol leads the way as normal 40-45% of all Winter Sports accidents.
"Unfavorable Snowpack" this winter. Especially in Tirol there had been a week long Avi Warning level 3, the conditions had not been ideal in Austria.
While the number of Avalanche deaths has risen, Winter sporting accidents declined as a whole.
Police recorded 1,460 accidents with suspected foul play inc fatalailties up to this weekend (Feb 15th)
There is also a further 150 cases that have not been registrered yet in the database.
Fatalities in controlled Austrain Ski Areas/Resorts this winter so far, there have been 15, which is exactly 10 less than in the same period last year. This is encouraging but also due to the late opening starts by many areas.
331 Hit and Run accidents were committed so far. Proportion is high as an injury often turns out later when they visit the Doctor & the suspect
is long gone & untraceble.
The Alpine police therefore recommends precaution & exchange personnel data instantly for all accidents
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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No, ski tourers!
The "french hikers" mentioned in the article were also ski tourers.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sun 22-02-15 13:56; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@stanton, timely reminders for everyone. Good work.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Just found out that the German who was killed in Norway above was a former work colleague / occasional ski and mtb buddy of mine. He was an avid and very experienced tourer, as was the other guy with him who survived. He leaves his wife and two teenage children behind.
Very sad news for me. This has really brought home to me just how little the 'experience' you gain is really worth. At the end of the day it's just down to luck, or not as was the case here.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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After seeing what people were skiing today in Tignes I'm not surprised about the number of deaths  Lots of lines down massively exposed 35-40 degree slopes with no possible safe zone if it slides.
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You already posted that.
The incident is interesting to look at as even the SLF fell into the obvious trap of listing the risk as 2 initially (they've since updated their website after this error was pointed out) whereas the devil is in the detail, note this is from the 8am bulletin
| Quote: |
SLF
Avalanche bulletin for 21 February issued at 8am 21.2
Risk Level: 2 MODERATE
Fresh, wind blown snow
Danger areas
All slope aspects above 1800 meters
Dangers
Accumulations of wind blown snow will form with the fresh snow and wind. They will lie on a surface of unstable snow especially on shaded slopes. An avalanche can be triggered by a single backcountry traveller. In the afternoon the risk level of 3 - Considerable will probably be reached. Tours and off piste trips will need to take a prudent choice with their routes.
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Accident at 2300 m, at 13h30. I believe the Combe de Morts is generally north facing. It is a reminder that even if you didn't take the 8am bulletin and relied on a risk level of 2 that the 3x3 method applies and you need to look at the conditions as you find them not as they were forecast and to certainly look beyond a headline risk.
Of course we have idea what decicion making process the Italian's used and I'm just making a general comment.
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@davidof, sorry about double post.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| stanton wrote: |
| @davidof, sorry about double post. |
ah no problem I just wondered if you'd seen they were the same incident or not?
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@Steilhang,
Hallo Steilhang, bin eben auf deinen Kommentar gestoßen.
Habe vor einer Woche die Todesanzeige eines Freundes entdeckt und versuche seit dem zu verstehen was passiert ist.
Da ich nicht weiß, wer diese Nachricht alles sehen kann, möchte ich dich bitten, mich per E-Mail zu kontaktieren.
allgaeu2012@emailn.de
Besten Dank
Viele Grüße
Harald
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Harald, Hallo Harald. Allzuviele Informationen hab ich nicht. Ich weiss nur das er mit einem Freund in Norwegen auf Schitouren war und das sie beide in eine Lawine kamen. Er wurde unter 3 meter Schnee begraben, sein Begleiter konnte sich selber befreien. Das Ganze wurde von einer Anderen Gruppe beobachtet und die haben die Bergretter alarmiert. Leider zu spät. Ich kann's immer noch kaum glauben. Mehr infos gibt's hier auf Norwegisch. Hab google translate benutzt um es zu übersetzen.
http://www.nordlys.no/Skred_g_tt_i_Storfjord_fra_Fastdalstinden-5-34-92727.html
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Steilhang, Hallo Steilhang, reden wir beide von der gleichen Person? P.R. aus M.?
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Ja, genau.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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I'm going to invest in Avi equipment. We don't ski proper off piste, through the trees next to the piste, and we ski the piste. Even on piste it isn't always safe, accidents happen, and not that equipment will always save you, it does increase your chances of survival in an accident. I'm just spooked reading these stories year after year, and we like doing the odd bit here and there through the trees.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@HeidiAmsterdam,
Avi equipment can help if you keep it maintained,functional &
know how to use it.
Most leisure skiers who buy airbags would not be able to
react quick enough if they were hit or carried away in a slide.
Panic & Shock would overtake any kind of survival thoughts.
The best thing folks could do before they spend €100,1000,s on
gear is to first invest a small amount in Avalanche Awareness & Avalanche search & rescue courses.
A €1 oldstyle device may save your life on & off piste.
The simple Whistle...keep it chained to your ski jacket.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
Most leisure skiers who buy airbags would not be able to
react quick enough if they were hit or carried away in a slide.
Panic & Shock would overtake any kind of survival thoughts. |
The usual garbage from our flatland tyrolean.
Some people freeze in a bad situation, others think and react. It has nothing to do with experience, seeing as very few people ever have any experience of getting caught in an avalanche. Equipment is good, but training is better imo. But as we have seen, many of the people getting caught are in fact very experienced. It doesn't always help.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Steilhang,
Im not saying experience. Experience can mean many things
You can be a 1 week a season wintersports holiday maker say over 30 years therefore experienced however never skied backcountry or off piste.
In motorway pile ups. They happen so fast, how many drivers make the right decisions & react correctly... not many!
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Wed 4-03-15 17:17; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| stanton wrote: |
@Steilhang,
Im not saying experience. Expeience can mean many things
You can be a 1 week a season wintersports holiday maker say over 30 years therefore exoerienced however never skied backcountry or off piste.
In motorway pile ups. They happen so fast, how many drivers make the right decisions & react correctly... not many! |
One thing has nothing to do with the other. Some people react to danger by freezing and doing nothing, others react by acting in a way that may help to get them out of the situation they are in. It has absolutely nothing to do with the number of years you may or may not have spent doing a particular activity. i.e you may well have spent 30 years skiing backcountry / off piste ( as I have ) and never got into an avalanche ( as I have not ) and when suddenly faced with that situation react in the same way as someone who is on his first day... i.e you might or might not react by pulling the handle.
If you want to see examples of the way people react in these situations look at the videos of the Tsunami at Khao Lak. Some people simply froze solid and probably died. Others ran for their lives and maybe survived. I would bet you could not tell which kind of person was a freezer and which was a runner before the event, and it would have had absolutely nothing to do with their experience at swimming!
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| livetoski wrote: |
 
| Quote: |
We don't ski proper off piste
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here we go again?
I had an interesting conversation with a good friend over in Chamonix, he is very experienced and has all the avi gear, plus a very high level of training and mountain awareness, he got caught in a avalanche but managed to avoid being taken, even though he was in the avalanche he remained on his feet and skied out to the side. I asked why he did not pull his avalanche airbag first, his honest answer was he didn't know, he said he would next time 
Made me smile, I think it was the shock that he did not read the snow right on that occasion! |
Well that's the point. I want to ski off to the sides, through the trees, and do the odd free ride thing, which I don't do now. I love the mountains, but they are dangerous.
I always wear a seatbelt, even though I've never been in a car accident. For me, same thing.
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@Steilhang,
Stay Safe!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| livetoski wrote: |
I had an interesting conversation with a good friend over in Chamonix, he is very experienced and has all the avi gear, plus a very high level of training and mountain awareness, he got caught in a avalanche but managed to avoid being taken, even though he was in the avalanche he remained on his feet and skied out to the side. I asked why he did not pull his avalanche airbag first, his honest answer was he didn't know, he said he would next time
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a guy I know got caught the other day, pulled his avalanche airbag lever and.... nothing. He wasn't very impressed to have lugged something around all winter on his tours that didn't actually work. Not only that but when I talked to him earlier in the year about some of the riskier stuff he was doing he said "no worries, got my airbag".
He skied out the slide he was caught in, it was a slab about 30cm deep. He said its changed his view on airbags a bit. He's obviously waiting for the manufacturer to get back to him but he wonders whether being a passive "passenger" in the ride once you pull the airbag is the best idea now or whether trying to escape the slide first is the best bet then pulling the airbag, of course it may be too late then. There is a lot of stuff people ski locally where an airbag is not necessarily the right answer if you get taken by a slide (Bauges, Chartreuse, lots of trees and cliffs to get smashed into). The opposite end is probably the Mickey's Ears avalanche where an airbag was the right tool for the problem.
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@davidof, would you be able to tell us what kind of airbag?
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