 Poster: A snowHead
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musher, signed and promoting!
Sure this will become a hot topic come September when more and more people start falling foul of it!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| pam w wrote: |
| and being deprived of that was some kind of unspeakable hardship. |
It is!!
jirac18 - don't do TO. For us cheap flights are a better option than driving, but as Pam says, pick your resort carefully, get there cheaply and look after your own kids and catering. Price difference between half term and low season is minimal. We only go low season because it is less crowded.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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[quote="pam w"][quote]
The package holiday market is very competitive and if you think the TOs are making too much money out of you, don't use them. It costs no more to drive in school holidays than at any other time
I don't look forward to my husband drving us the few miles down the motorway to visit family - heaven knows what state I would be in going to the Alps! (but I guess his 'driving style' is rather besides the point...) 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
I don't look forward to my husband drving us the few miles down the motorway to visit family - heaven knows what state I would be in going to the Alps!
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well, the obvious answer is either to drive yourself or find a husband who can drive. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
get there cheaply and look after your own kids and catering. Price difference between half term and low season is minimal.
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Agreed - the only price which changes is the accomodation costs, but by booking direct through Tourist Office etc this can be minimised. Crossing with Eurotunnel can be also minimised through travelling slightly off-peak. Eg we crossed Thursday evening before half-term (in the days when we could get time off school )
Food, fuel, lift prices, ski hire etc all remain the same.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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if you are on the ball you can get decent flight prices too, if you book immediately the flights are released. And book eurotunnel as far ahead as possible (you can always change it later if you need to).
IME accommodation costs in February half term or new year are pretty high, even booking direct with owners (who are just as aware of the elasticities of demand as the TOs are). But it's still not extortionate. You can book a nice 2 bedroom apartment in my development for £430 a week in mid January and from mid March until the end of the season, or £980 in mid February. Sleeps up to 7. Situated right on the piste. Very good restaurant a few yards away, if you don't want to self-cater every night. Small supermarket and ski hire shop at the bottom of the chairlift, a few hundred metres down the road.
http://www.locapart-lessaisies.com/index.htm
And hundreds and hundreds more similar places to choose from. Some cheaper and more basic, others more expensive and luxurious. Endless choice.
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| stuarth wrote: |
I was discussing a disney cruise (!!) |
Do it!  We did the Disney Alaska cruise from Vancouver 2 years ago and it was fantastic.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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stuarth,
Loads of people here seem to take their kids out of school; particularly in the winter for their warm weather respite. At elementary some immigrants would also go back for a 1-3 month break over Christmas. I am not even aware you ask permission, merely that you tell them.
I never take mine out as I work and it never makes sense to trade in a week of free childcare and schooling for a week of expensive camps, meaning they spend even more time in camp. My camps run at $650 a week, and I don't like them spending all their summer in camps. Plus at the moment we aren't really flying anywhere, which is where the cost saving would be.
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| Boris wrote: |
| Quote: |
get there cheaply and look after your own kids and catering. Price difference between half term and low season is minimal.
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Agreed - the only price which changes is the accomodation costs, but by booking direct through Tourist Office etc this can be minimised. Crossing with Eurotunnel can be also minimised through travelling slightly off-peak. Eg we crossed Thursday evening before half-term (in the days when we could get time off school )
Food, fuel, lift prices, ski hire etc all remain the same. |
You prob know more than me re where to get deals, but as generalization would have to dispute above. P&V basically double the price during french midterm than outside nearly anywhere you look
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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peanuthead, accommodation is only a small part of the total cost. TO's double the entire cost.
For us - book sleazyjet the day flights are released. They typically start off @under £100.00 for 4 of us return to GVA. Miss it by a day or two and it could be 3-400. (No-one else flies from Belfast to GVA and the other 'handy' routes are generally more expensive.) Book car hire. I think it was about £120.00 for a week this year. Look for self catering accommodation. Maybe goes from E250.00 to E500.00 for mid term. Total cost is therefore only an extra 60 Euro each to go mid term. The have high and low season lift pass pricing in the US, but I haven't noticed that in Europe.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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peanuthead, But with P&V you're not booking direct, they are taking a cut. Google the resort you want, find the tourist board and see what they have to offer. What we did. Yes the price is stil more, but not that much more
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Did anyone see the News this morning and the report from the Great Yorkshire agricultural show? All those kids they filmed talking about being there to show their animals - I was tempted to wonder why they weren't all in school!!
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You know it makes sense.
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| Megamum wrote: |
| Did anyone see the News this morning and the report from the Great Yorkshire agricultural show? All those kids they filmed talking about being there to show their animals - I was tempted to wonder why they weren't all in school!! |
Ah but it's OK for the kids to be out of school to attend that show as it's educational..... 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Megamum, Maybe it's the same as here in Norfolk, where days off for the Royal Norfolk Show are part of the school holidays.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Well daughter's Junior School have finally replied - saying it is likely to be refused due to change in legislation. "Likely" as is being debated by school governers tonight as to how they will respond - will be interesting as a friend is governer at that school who has on occassions taken his kids out of school!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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We got notice of this change in last Fridays newsletter - apparently it doesnt matter if you are an Academy or not (daughters Primary School is). The heads from local primary schools are meeting to decide what "exceptional circumstances" are. Apparently absences for Music Exams etc is still ok.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Shimmy Alcott wrote: |
| We got notice of this change in last Fridays newsletter - apparently it doesnt matter if you are an Academy or not (daughters Primary School is). The heads from local primary schools are meeting to decide what "exceptional circumstances" are. Apparently absences for Music Exams etc is still ok. |
So if the music exams are OK...
If the kids are taken out for 'Winter Sports Training' culminating in the 'Bronze / Silver / Gold / Race' ski 'exam' and award (for those kids in lessons), that should be OK too...
On the other hand, why can't they just be sensible and allow you to apply for holiday leave if your childs general attendance is over say 96%!!!!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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It's obvious what is going to happen - parents who are subserviant to authority will "do the right thing" and leave their kids in school. Those who aren't will take them out/ note that they look a bit pale/flushed and call them in with "sickness" and add to school's unauthorised absence record. If a school has a lot of the latter category then they may have to think creatively to redefine exceptional circumstances so that they don't end up with a bigger problem. It's just a game - none of which enhances kids' education.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| fatbob wrote: |
| It's obvious what is going to happen - parents who are subserviant to authority will "do the right thing" and leave their kids in school. Those who aren't will take them out/ note that they look a bit pale/flushed and call them in with "sickness" and add to school's unauthorised absence record. If a school has a lot of the latter category then they may have to think creatively to redefine exceptional circumstances so that they don't end up with a bigger problem. It's just a game - none of which enhances kids' education. |
Totally agree, but it still a @*#@ing game to have to play. Particularly when I assume the only parents it was really intended for are not the kind of parents who would bother filling the form in in the first place.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Of course no-one would want to mention conscription would they? Even then I think militry incumbents got a certain number of days leave.
I think each child shoudl be granted 3 or 4 days holiday outside of school hols in the year to use as their parents see fit. It is yet another instance of the Government dictating what we can and can't do with our kids and I am afraid it goes against everything that I see as fair.
For example, my daughter has got two official 'Baker's days' the last two days of this school year, so effectively they are already breaking up on Friday rather than the following Tuesday. This uses up the official 'Baker's Days' for the year. However, this has still not stopped from saying we are also intending to close at lunchtime on Friday and send the kids home to us. Effectively this means every child in the school will miss an afternoon session that they would have got an attendance mark for. There are approx. 2000 children in the school so there will be approx. 1000 missed school days on the last Friday. Yet, I am told I can't take one child with 99.1% overall yearly attendanceb and excellent attainment out for one day to travel to skiing. That 99.1% attendance includes the day I did take her out for this purpose in the last year although I been 'officially' told I couldn't do this. I am afraid I'd take 'em all the way to the court if they tried to fine me. 
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| Quote: |
Those who aren't will take them out/ note that they look a bit pale/flushed and call them in with "sickness" and add to school's unauthorised absence record.
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AFAIK absence due to sickness is not unauthorised.
But I would hope parents who fulminate about this on internet fora will have the courage of their convictions and tell the school the truth, not a pack of lies. No wonder we lose such a lot of productivity to people "pulling a sickie" if parents teach their children to do this from an early age. 
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| Quote: |
Even then I think militry incumbents got a certain number of days leave.
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I think most people in the military would be thrilled to bits to get even half the number of days leave that schoolchildren get. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
Even then I think militry incumbents got a certain number of days leave.
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I think most people in the military would be thrilled to bits to get even half the number of days leave that schoolchildren get. |
...and to be able to forecast it with certainty a year or more in advance
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Surely its just plain wrong to encourage your kids to lie about being sick. If you want to take your kids out of school I don't think there's any reason not to be straight about it.
We usually ski over half term or Easter - we always ask for the Friday before off so we can get head start on the traffic without an overnight drive, they always say no and we say we're going anyway. We always check about anything relating to exams and our daughter has had maybe 2-3 days off for illness in the last 3 years. She even went in (not 100% willingly I might add) during the snow earlier this year when a lot of the teachers didn't make it. If they tried to fine us we'd contest it on the basis of their action (or lack of it) against far more blatant offenders, but I would think (hope) that would be unlikely.
Someone once said in a previous post on this site that if the school take your kid skiing in term time its educational, if you take them, its truancy.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Megamum wrote: |
| I think each child shoudl be granted 3 or 4 days holiday outside of school hols in the year to use as their parents see fit. It is yet another instance of the Government dictating what we can and can't do with our kids and I am afraid it goes against everything that I see as fair. |
The government give you a fair choice - let them educate your kids or do it yourself (either literally or by going private). If you choose the government to provide education then surely they set down the rules? I honestly don't think a lot of parents have a clue how disruptive absences can be for the rest of the class. I've had a number of occasions where a planned lesson has had to be scrapped due to group members missing from a presentation/performance/practical. If you have kids working in a group of 6 and they all have a different week off, it could be 1/2 a term before the session can take place as planned. That's why the government get schools to have set holidays.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I only ever took my daughter out when she was in early years primary school - weve not done it for years - shes 12 now. I do think it can be disruptive for the school. However - I really dont see how EVERYONE can take holidays in the prescribed school hols. We have our own dental practice and all our employees (5) are female (nurses and hygienist - the two associate male dentists are self-employed). Most chidcare does fall to the Mums. How can we all take our annual leave in school hols? There would be no-one left at work.
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| Thornyhill wrote: |
| Price difference between half term and low season is minimal. We only go low season because it is less crowded. |
Sorry but thats just not true,
Your fuel, tolls, food, lift pass, ski hire and lessons are the same price when ever you go.
But you will pay atleast 50% more for your flights or ferry and your apartment will be more than double.
We go to Saint Foy in early march each year, the apartment which we book direct with tthe owner is around £800 for the week, the same one in february is £2200!!
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
Sorry but thats just not true
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It's a bit true... apartments like mine, which sleeps 6 or 7, rent for about £400 in mid January and between £900 - 1100 from mid Feb - mid March (French winter holidays). If you book well in advance ferries and tunnels aren't very different and everything else is the same. So the marginal cost is about £100 a head; more expensive certainly, but not a huge percentage increase.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Just put the form in for 10/03/14 for the week. Pulled the sob story of rosta'd annual leave, unable to find a swap, minime's perfect attendance and performance etc. we'll see what happens. At minime's school it only seems to be a select, very regular, few who get authorised.
pam w, that's not really marginal is it? £20-30 is marginal, £80-120 per family of four. £400 is not by any means marginal. That's the difference in going skiing and not going.
Also on you own figures, based on 6 people(I would imagine to be more realistic it would be comfortable for 4, but I'll run with 6) cheap rate is £66 pppw expensive rate is £183 pppw, by my simple maths that's almost 3 times more expensive. It's still not marginal and what makes those weeks 3 times better apart from the ability to charge more and get away with it???(p.s. not having a go, it's just frustrating and meant we couldn't ski last season).
Slightly different, my mate has a place on Tenerife, all his neighbours adjust their prices according to school holidays and have empty appartments for 2 thirds of the year[last]. He charges a flat rate of £350 for what ever week and is full for 48 weeks of the year, the other 4 he has to have permanently pre booked for his own use. Over the year he makes a very nice profit on it, enough for him to be out there soon to buy another and very soon to retire out there.
Sorry longish add on edit.
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Thu 11-07-13 9:26; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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Anyone tried the Health and safety approach?
ie We have carried out a risk assessment and its far too crowded for safe skiing during half term, therefore etc etc 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I thought ski hire did go up during the holidays? And also kids lessons can be full.
Anyway I am a Tarmac engineer ( want your drive done??) so my children leave school when they are 7, to join the family business.
No one has ever fined me or made me take my children back to school,
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I have just got my daughters report in there they quite their attendance - despite me taking her out of school for a week this year she was still 97.x% attendance over the whole year. She hasn't had a single day sick or been taken out for anything else. Oh and all her SATs showed she was achieving above the level expected for a 7yr old in everything (and she is stil 6  sorry just being a very proud mum).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
that's not really marginal is it?
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"marginal cost" means the difference between the cost of the holiday in mid January and the cost in mid February; it is a technical term rather than a judgement on how affordable it is.
I fear you are being unrealistic and unreasonable, ricfrench. If you read threads on snowheads about renting out apartments, by people who own them, you will see that very few do any more than cover some of their costs. There is vast competition in the alpine accommodation market, within and between countries. It is probably one of the most "perfect markets" (in the sense of operating properly as a market, not meaning it is perfect for people wanting a cheap holiday in a peak period) in Europe. If one apartment is too expensive for you, go and find a cheaper one.
I don't rent out my apartment so am not pleading my own case here - but I help friends who do, sometimes, with cleaning and with problems which crop up, so I do know what I am talking about. I can assure you that owning an alpine apartment is not a route to untold riches made by unfair exploitation of poor families. Unless you have a very large family maybe you could make do with an apartment costing less than the prices you quote - which are very high. There are plenty of reports here on SHs from families who have worked out how to have a happy ski holiday together in a small and inexpensive apartment. You might find it an unacceptable squash having 6 people in my two-bedroom apartment but we have had happy times there with 7 (one bedroom sleeps 3).
There is no reason why any family has to go skiing at half term. You can ski at Christmas, or Easter, for less money, still using the school holidays. I have never yet been skiing at half term and intend never to do so, even though my accommodation has no marginal cost to me and I have a season lift pass. But some people are gluttons for punishment.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
You can ski at Christmas, or Easter
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While you are of course correct - Easter is late next year, making it a non-starter for many resorts, and of course Christmas can be difficult for families who have to balance visits to grandparents etc.
Of course the correct response to this is to do as we do and tell both sets of grandparents we will be in the Alps and they can join us.
To echo pam w, you can find cheaper apartments if you look - we usually end up having to sleep in sofa bed in lounge - not ideal but far better than trying to find 3-bed apartment. Alternatively we will book further away from slopes, as these are less 'desirable' they are cheaper. Downside is a bit of a hike to slopes.
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The simple answer is leave the kids at home and go skiing whenever you want...
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Easter is late next year, making it a non-starter for many resorts
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I thought that till it was pointed out to me (on snowheads....) that schools are starting their "Easter" holidays much earlier in April. There should be loads of ski options during the school holidays 2014 and it's a quiet time - low season for French accommodation. First week of April 2013 we rented all 6 apartments in a building a few yards from the chairlift, for remarkably little money.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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pam w,
| ricfrench wrote: |
| (p.s. not having a go, it's just frustrating and meant we couldn't ski last season). |
Also.
I suffer the joy of having rosta'd annual leave, this means that unless I'm rosta'd the week at Christmas or Easter I stand no chance of getting a swap(who would) feb half term is different cos nobody really wants the week off. In short I no real choice. Not everyone has the sort of annual leave freedom we'd all like.
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ricfrench, if you are given no choice about your time off, and it's in term time, then that's a jolly good reason to take the kids out of school, I'd say. If you don't get the leave authorised, take it as unauthorised. And if you have to go at half term and can't afford a luxury apartment, take a cheaper one. The prices you quoted are really very high. I'm not surprised you couldn't afford over 2K just for self-catering accommodation for the week - and £800 in low season is also pretty steep. There really are plenty of good places for a lot less.
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FAQ
