 Poster: A snowHead
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You put milk in Earl Grey?
Ewwwwww..
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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You write a post without quoting a previous post for context on a new page?
Ewwwwww..
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Mr Pieholeo wrote: |
You put milk in Earl Grey?
Ewwwwww.. |
I do what I'm told but I don't drink tea myself so no idea how it should be taken.
Regarding the OP. Schools are very variable, like anywhere I guess. Village schools may have mixed year classes which are not ideal. Valley schools may not have French as a first language  . You may want to research before you move somewhere but do this now before the summer holidays. The local school may be full and you'll have to go to a school further away. Watch out for your none-French kids having to redo years because their language skills are not up to it. I know a few of the local foreign kids have had a issues integrating into the French school system; other kids who have had no problems at all.
On the Swiss side of the border there are a number of international schools (as there are on the French side too - we have 3 international schools in Grenoble for example) but people are probably thinking of the huge campus in Geneva at Nations. I wouldn't send young kids there, it is too big. It is also very expensive, around 25,000 CHF/year, I recall. I wasn't going to spend that money to hear my son coming back saying "la plume à ma tante est sur le bureau à mon oncle"
Pam's neighbour is correct that Geneva schools are not a place to go to learn good French. On the other hand a lot of the Genevois speak good English and quite a lot speak German or Italian.
The Pays de Gex schools have a good reputation but the place is either full of inbred locals or insuffrable nouveau riches bragging about their money. Gex is a fairly long trot from Geneva by a poor road mind but not bad for the airport. St Genis is very English. Ferney Voltaire is full of junior UN people who can't afford Swiss rents but you get the airport noise and its a bit rough. St Ju. is full of Swiss refuges who can't afford their own country anymore.
Bref! All things considered, Les Gets, Morzine etc are not bad ideas really, at least while the kids are pre-college.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Sat 20-04-13 9:56; edited 1 time in total
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MeMyselfandI, we are in Les Gets a couple of minutes walk from the two primary schools and the nursery - over the years there have always been quite a few non French children there. We have recently seen some friends who lived in Les Gets for three or four years with three children - two at the very local school, as they were our neighbours, and the elder boy caught the bus each day to college in St Jean. The father worked from home most of the time, but also went to London, Denmark and India regularly. The mum spoke fluent French as she had lived in Switzerland but she said that it took quite some time to feel even slightly integrated, but slowly and surely, and the huge excitement when they were invited to not only aperitifs but also dinner with a French family...... elder boy found the first term at the college quite hard as his French was not good, but he soldiered on, French improved and then he got a scholarship to boarding school back in UK, and his now at Oxford. The two younger children became fluent French speakers very quickly and made lots of friends.
They rented a chalet for the whole time and rented out their own house in UK. The children were in the local ski clubs - that took a bit of perseverance too.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
The mum spoke fluent French as she had lived in Switzerland but she said that it took quite some time to feel even slightly integrated, but slowly and surely, and the huge excitement when they were invited to not only aperitifs but also dinner with a French family.....
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This mirrors the experience of a couple I know of. She is French, he is English, but with reasonable French. They did the standard Brit thing and bought a beautiful old decrepit house and renovated it. When the work was done they invited all their neighbours and all the builders for a house-warming party, which was a big success. But although people were friendly enough, and would chat in the street etc, they never got invited back anywhere. She was French, but not "du coin" - and that was more of a problem than they had anticipated.
I have friends who bought a chalet in Abondance because they wanted to be in a "real village" but, ironically, though I am in an entirely purpose-built tourist holiday complex it's been easier to get to know people because everybody who is here is away from base, and perhaps more open to being friendly. We have invited people in for an "apero" and been invited back, and have made really good friends with one family (Belgian husband, French wife), having visited them in Belgium and had them visit us in Emsworth. We have also visited Dutch neighbours, in their apartment in the South of France. Also made good British friends - but obviously that's a lot easier.
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Always beats me why people are so keen on this kind of 'integration'. They'd be horrified at the idea of burying themselves in some inbred village miles from anywhere in darkest Norfolk (for example) but for some reason they think that because it's France the whole experience will be delightful. Let's face it, what are you likely to have in common with people who have never been interested in straying more then 10km from the miniscule hamlet in which they were born?
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| Mr Pieholeo wrote: |
You're claiming that drinking tea doesn't produce bilingualism?
That's a pretty bold claim, mon amigo. |
Ah, a connyserrr of languages. Now I understand the o on your username has double meaning. Although tea supposedly renders bilingualism defunct, history seems to recall that if enough is consumed then Johnny Foreigner will damned well learn English.
| Lizzard wrote: |
| Always beats me why people are so keen on this kind of 'integration'. They'd be horrified at the idea of burying themselves in some inbred village miles from anywhere in darkest Norfolk (for example) but for some reason they think that because it's France the whole experience will be delightful. Let's face it, what are you likely to have in common with people who have never been interested in straying more then 10km from the miniscule hamlet in which they were born? |
Ha, quite. I simply refer to learning the language, not washing laundry in an outdoor trough and baking bread in a 500 year old stone oven. If you've kids it must be more important though, having the neighbours on hand for playdates, emergencies and the crushing nepotism that is sports team selection has to be a relief. If you don't, well, conversing with the locals can at least mean the difference between them having the courtesy to ring you when problems arise during your absence, and simply robbing you themselves as soon as you drive away...
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| Quote: |
what are you likely to have in common with people who have never been interested in straying more then 10km from the miniscule hamlet in which they were born?
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a very cultured (in the most positive sense of the word) Frenchman who ran a language school here explained some of the problems to me, in our French conversation lessons. He pointed out a neighbour down the road, who ran a ski hire business in the winter. They were on perfectly civil, superficially friendly, terms but Alain said the guy was a rabid Le Pen supporter who was deeply suspicious of anyone from the other side of the mountain (ie Hauteluce), let alone northern France (Alain's roots). Alain had an Indonesian wife (fluent French speaker) and an adopted son from French Caledonia (ie black). That was all difficult, too - he did say that whilst he could forgive the small children in Hauteluce school their inherent racism he was much less tolerant of that of the teachers. 
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If you don't, well, conversing with the locals can at least mean the difference between them having the courtesy to ring you when problems arise during your absence, and simply robbing you themselves as soon as you drive away...
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 yes, I think I've achieved that with the small number of "locals" in my immediate vicinity - the restaurant owners and the guy who runs our local chairlift who, with his wife, are the only permanent residents of our tiny hamlet. I find the latter very difficult to talk to - partly, I think, because he is a man of few words anyway but also because he doesn't have the understanding that he needs to moderate his lingo a bit when he talks to me - I suspect he uses exactly the same language as he would with the itinerant one-armed farm labourer who does some fauchage around the place in the summer (not easy with one arm, that).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Pamski, do you know how they went about renting somewhere? I'm struggling to find very much at the moment. Ideally I want somewhere for a year.
Thanks.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| MeMyselfandI wrote: |
I'm struggling to find very much at the moment. Ideally I want somewhere for a year.
Thanks. |
leboncoin.fr is good, word of mouth is better, but we found our annual let via the tourist office in Morzine. They keep a list of seasonal and annual properties. Always found it best to go direct to the owners in the mountains, no-one likes agencies.
Eg, saw this on Facebook the other week (Morzine):
"Anyone looking for a sweet 2 bedroom flat year round?... The one below me is up for grabs, 7min walk from Rhodos. 780/month inc heating. Hola!"
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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MeMyselfandI, they went round Les Gets and stuck notes in the post boxes of places that they liked the look of.
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albinomountainbadger, thanks
Pamski, brilliant  I'm wondering if it's worth emailing some of the people that have places for sale asking if they'd do an annual let instead.
Talking about word of mouth MrI is up for the plan so if anyone knows of any annual lets, especially in the Turche area Pamski is in please let me know!
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You know it makes sense.
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We don't have kids and don't live in Les Gets so not sure how much I can add to this except to agree with Pam's statement
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She was French, but not "du coin" - and that was more of a problem than they had anticipated.
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Most of the close french friends who we have aren't local - and they definitely feel as foreign as we do - sometimes more so!!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| Always beats me why people are so keen on this kind of 'integration'. |
Well, quite apart from the benefits of being able to call the local plumber or electrician out in the middle of the night and on a Sunday, it's kind of nice to get on with people and make friends.
| Lizzard wrote: |
| what are you likely to have in common with people who have never been interested in straying more then 10km from the miniscule hamlet in which they were born? |
Even in our tiny village with a population of 460, you aren't stuck talking to people who are like that - it helps not to be judgmental, and to be able to keep an open mind about others.
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Poster: A snowHead
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miranda, you're missing the point. Either deliberately or otherwise.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| They'd be horrified at the idea of burying themselves in some inbred village miles from anywhere in darkest Norfolk (for example) |
Twenty years ago, I moved into in a small English village in which I had no roots. It's the same mixture of the interesting, the dull, the adventurous and the conservative that you are likely to find anywhere else. Approach people with preconceptions and it's all too easy to find them confirmed. It did however take about ten years to become accepted.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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dogwatch, same here, except that about a third of the population are as mad as a box of frogs.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Lizzard, I wouldn't waste my time deliberately missing whatever point you were trying to make.
Seems to me you are taking both a swipe at Brits moving to small foreign villages, and a swipe at people who live in small villages in general.
As dogwatch, points out, you'll have a mix of personalities. What could I have in common with, say, the farmer who lives next door, has lived in the village his whole life and spends 365 days of the year farming and doing nothing else? Well, as we discovered the first time he and his wife came round for dinner, he's very funny so we obviously have a shared sense of humour. I have friends who have moved to tiny villages in the UK and it's the same kind of scenario - you make friends with the people you get on with irrespective of age, background, vocation and so on. You don't have to become friends with everyone, you don't have to hang out with people 24/7, and you don't have to ditch all the friends you already had. You do, however, have to keep an open mind and not just assume everyone is "insular" and "inbred".
You'd also be pretty silly not to want to be integrated into the community wherever you live, but not least when you're in a small and remote place - everybody needs help from time to time.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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This thread seems to have drifted from a schools into integration. I'll offer my twopenneth on the latter.
In any place where there is a large expat community, e.g. (costas, ski resorts, Geneva, Brussels) the locals can be a bit skeptical of investing time in getting to know expats, because the expats are usually there and gone within a 2 year timescale. On the positive side, the expats themselves are possibly more welcoming. Because of the 2-year-expat-friend-drain an insular expat can quickly run out of friends and you'll automatically have a lot in common with them from your experience of and motivations for moving there.
I wouldn't be sniffy about integrating with either group. After all your main goal is more to create a nice, easy life for your family, than to become a pillar of the community and acquire some intellectual understanding of French culture. The latter could be treated as a bonus if you make the additional effort. With the main goal in mind however, I had no hesitation in getting Sky (or Freesat) and reading English websites, newspapers etc.
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On the subject of integration my background is that I was born in Singapore, grew up in NZ with British parents, moved to the UK with a NZ accent then went to German speaking Switzerland. I'm used to being an outsider and quite comfortable with it but do have a formula that's worked ok in the past for getting to know people e.g. smile and say hello to everyone, start conversations, offer to help with anything and everything, never be afraid to be rebuffed and learn to cook really well.
FWIW the most difficult clique I've ever encountered was one of new mothers in Islington, I still hold that if I managed to integrate into that one I'll do ok anywhere.
The most pressing short term issue I need to resolve now is to find somewhere to live.
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MeMyselfandI, wishing you lots of luck (very envious!). It sounds like you are open-minded and not judgemental like some on this thread. Les Gets/Morzine would be my choice with young children. Young mothers in Islington type situation would be far more worrying IMO 
Hope you find somewhere to live soon. Have you had any response from the local agencies? May even be worth contacting the tourist office who might know of a long term let.
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MeMyselfandI, as well as going and sticking notes in letter boxes, tourist offices and agents you can put a request on the Solutions Room of Chalets Direct - there is a section for Long Stay requests.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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marmotte16, I've contacted all the local agencies, a lot of holiday lets direct, posted on the PdS NTWT  and the tourist office but not expecting to hear anything back until tomorrow at the earliest, probably longer considering it's between seasons. There's one possibility in LG but I'm not sure about the location. May need to head out there for a few days this week or next armed with a translation app on my phone.
Pamski, brilliant, thank you.
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MeMyselfandI, If you need to move out soon you could always do a short term let of something and put stuff in storage in Cluses while you look for something more suitable.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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rjs, Storage options nearby was going to be my next question even if we do find somewhere before 31/6, we've got a LOT of stuff. Is there a big yellow storage equivalent there?
Once more thanks to absolutely everyone who has replied on this thread. This is something MrI & I have been discussing since the end of last year and 'talking' it over on here, along with the very helpful PM's I've received, has helped immeasurably in clarifying my thinking. We're definitely going to do it for at least a year, it's been decided. Now to organise it!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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MeMyselfandI, also maybe try a new thread or changing the title? You may be missing someone who could help with accommodation in the area (but not with children in the Alps ). I know you have mentioned in the unofficial PDS thread.
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| MeMyselfandI wrote: |
| rjs, Storage options nearby was going to be my next question even if we do find somewhere before 31/6, we've got a LOT of stuff. Is there a big yellow storage equivalent there? |
BoxenLoc (or LocenBox), have centres in Cluses (Thyez really) and Thonons. Not cheap, but if needs must.
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You know it makes sense.
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Just a bit of an after thought, but the language is critical to integrating, which I'm sure you'll manage.
Over here in Amsterdam, which can be described in it's simplest, below sea level and all English speaking. In spite of my best efforts to learn Dutch, it was really hard because the minute I would say something in Dutch, it was obvious I was English speaking, and the Dutch, as they are, would immediately respond in English...not all to helpful when one is trying to learn Dutch! I always said it would be easier to learn French in France as you can count on them to continue speaking French to you, regardless if you understood or not.
Once I started working less, and my kids started school, the language learning gained momentum, made friends through my kids, and now, when I speak Dutch, everyone responds in Dutch. It was a long road, but finally, I did arrive.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Just wanted to thank everyone on this thread again. We've got a chalet for a year from next month, the kids are enrolled in school so now I've just got to sell almost everything we own and get the remainder to France!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| albinomountainbadger wrote: |
To learn a language you need to spend most of your time in that language, and even if comprehension is minimal to start with, a daily ten minutes of radio whilst washing up or following the news after/before dinner will be more helpful than a rigid timetable of language CDs.
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I've been in Germany a year and my German is still rubbish, I tried to listen to peoples conversations at first but it becomes very tiring and it is easy to drift off when you don't understand most of the words or even do understand the words but they still don't make sense as a total sentence. This might work for some people, mainly small children but I don't think that most people would be able to get to a decent standard where they can have conversations with people just by immersion. Understanding set phrases in situations where you have a reasonable expectation of what people will say is one thing but understanding and joining in a conversation among native speakers is entirely different. I found listening to a language cd on my commute to work the most helpful.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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lynseyf, I've found a combination of my course (3 hours a day 4 days a week) and working in german (just in H&M so not too taxing!) has been pretty good. Visited my gf's parents last weekend and we were able to speak German pretty much exclusively the whole time (though beyond relatively simple sentences my grammar falls apart!) - pretty gratifying. Can barely understand them when they talk (Viennese dialect) to their friends though. I think just the course or just the work would have been a lot less effective.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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MeMyselfandI, congrats btw!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Your post has made me rather envious and more determined to get on with our own plans (currently in Bath). We've been looking at Annecy too. It's really easy on the new motorway and the toll is not very expensive. It's just beautiful. I don't personally like frontalier towns such as Archamps, so if we end up with work in Geneva, Annecy is going to be the direction we head in.
Good luck
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| Quote: |
Just wanted to thank everyone on this thread again. We've got a chalet for a year from next month, the kids are enrolled in school so now I've just got to sell almost everything we own and get the remainder to France!
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MeMyselfandI, congratulations, that sounds great. Getting rid of large quantities of possessions is always a good idea, and you have a really good incentive.
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she spoke to me in french (which I understand far better than I speak), I spoke english to her (which likewise she understood well but struggled to speak). It's really the best arrangement when communication rather than learning is the priority; but politeness makes us illogically attempt the exact opposite in many situations
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I have that arrangement with French friends. They email in French, I email in English. That way we can get all the news down, and we each read good examples of the other language. In conversation it tends to be 85% French because I like it that way - one of my main opportunities to speak French - and Evelyne is very shy about speaking English, though she knows a lot. I am no longer shy about speaking French - and once over that hurdle it becomes so much easier.
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MeMyselfandI, excellent and exciting  Where did you find a chalet in the end?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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marmotte16, through the local round robin email. It was about the same cost as 2bed 50sqm places but it's 5 bed, 4 bath with a garden and a few minutes from the lift. It was perhaps the jammiest bit of luck I have ever experienced but I'm not going to complain!
clarky999, pam w, thank you
Neraida, do it, because then I'll know there is another person as insane as me out there
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MeMyselfandI, Sounds great. See you on the slopes of the pds next winter, or maybe when I'm over on my mountain bike in the summer.
We moved to the French part of CH three years ago and have found integrating ok, with a reasonable mix of fellow expat and locals (although it's fair to say that most of the social side of things has been with expats plus the locals we knew before we moved). We love living so close to the mountains, although not as close as you are!
My French is coming along, but working for a British company here my chances to practise are more limited than they could be, but I survive in most situations!
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FAQ
