 Poster: A snowHead
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my son passed his ESF gold star in feb this year (not bad for a 9yr old !). we have just come back from tignes where he skied all day every day with us for the first time. I was amazed at his stamina and ability to keep up with us for a full week. he also skied in some tricky conditions as we had a lot of snow, after the pistes had been bashed, and then poor visibility. his adaptability was very impressive. he clearly skis by feel and instinct and this must be a result of starting at 3yrs and 8 months of age. anyhow...getting his gold star was a milestone and we said after that no more lessons as they would not teach him anything -he needs to get ski mileage under his belt and build up experience. he keeps asking if he can do "competition" level next year and we were wondering if anyone has experience of this. I cant see much point as he can ski pretty much anything and we all enjoyed skiing together as a family for the first time and not having the ball ache of having to be back down at ski school at lunch time to pick him up. we had some long excursions and skied all over the espace killy. he skied itineries and unpisted blacks with competence and ease. my view of competition level is that they prepare kids for racing - lots of slalom stuff and repeating the same runs time after time. is this correct ? woudl be interested to hear of your opinions. we dont have the time or resources for him to become a competitive skier but he wants to learn more. would we be better to get him a couple of private lessons or maybe some freeride / snowpark lessons. ? all opnions most welcome. cheers.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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backhojo, It might be worthwhile looking into the "hotshots" week which Easiski runs in Les Deux Alpes - I know that several Snowheads have posted about how well their kids have progressed under Charlotte's excellent tuition. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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he clearly skis by feel and instinct and this must be a result of starting at 3yrs and 8 months of age
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Yep, but it also sounds as though he has had plenty of good tuition. Not all kids who start skiing young reach that level of competence though they might have that ease and confidence which comes from starting young. Well done, all round! My daughter sails like that - there's just no way an older starter one can get there (I started both sailing and skiing in my 40s  ).
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I understood Competition to be race training too, but we were in Avoriaz a couple of weeks ago and looked into the Village des Enfants (he's 13 so not impressed with the name!) - they run a 'Freeride' class at Competition level, so he did spend time in the parks, trees and off piste and the only race of which I am aware was one slalom on the 'assessment'.
In fact, although we only booked afternoons (mornings were full, when we arrived) he enjoyed himself sufficiently that he asked to join in for mornings too on the last 2 days.
Lessons for our son suit us because my wife is a very nervous skier, who only really enjoys a run on the second or third go, and rarely strays from blues, whereas he came back from the Swiss Wall wanting to repeat it. Lessons also mean less chance of him picking up bad habits for which he can blame me later!
Some places - la Plagne and Avoriaz for instance - advertise Freestyle lessons, but I think they come under the 'Ado' listing so your son might be too young - I don't know the youngest in his lessons this year but there was an English boy of 11.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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backhojo, my understanding of ESF competition is that it is race training, though I don't know if that's what they do exclusively. There are a few offerings around for kids who are generally beyond ski school top level, the one Yellow Pyranha describes sounds good, I have also seen Snoworks doing Junior All Terrain weeks in school holidays, New Gen run a Freeride group too and the one we've been using is BASS Junior All Mountain course.
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Claude B, Always found this interesting but what about a kid not old enough for Hot Shots and too good for Hot Tots which backhojo's and my son would seem to be? Or is Charlotte flexible on this?
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sarah, Most of the current Top/Hot Shots are 16+ now, the oldest was 21, and this was the last year for them. Contact Charlotte I'm sure she'll be looking to plug the gap.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Claude B, thanks 
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backhojo, My daughter does ESF competition level in les carroz, they can do a freeride / freestyle class from age 14 as well. The competition classes are based on racing, but they go all over the place . lots of off piste (esp trees) etc if the conditions are good. There are some days of gate bashing and they do fleche and chamois races at various points, and get the badges to go with them if they are quick enough. She really enjoys it and has improved her skiing hugely.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Mon 15-04-13 17:54; edited 3 times in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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backhojo, I now book my kids (again they weren't keen on racing, and I couldn't have supported it on a regular basis) a private instructor (2X 2hrs in the week) to take them off for structured fun in an exciting environment that I won't take them to. They ski with us the rest of the time.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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carroz, Good to hear the competition class do leave the stade, sounds good.
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pam w,
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I started both sailing and skiing in my 40s
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FWIW, personally, I find that an encouraging statement 
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You know it makes sense.
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Don't hold a kid back who has got some natural "feel" by making him ski with his parents, unless you're really ripping all mountain (on and off piste, trees, chutes etc). I'd have thought lots of English speaking ski schools were dialled into "freeride" lessons for this sort of demographic.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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fatbob, + 1 for this, which is why I don't ski much with my son now. The British ski schools are dialled into it as I posted above, BASS, New Gen, Snoworks, there will be others too.
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Poster: A snowHead
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We have a similar problem.
Although going twice a year we tend to have one week with no lessons and another week where we'll have a few lessons - but rather than just Jnr having lessons, we all do, sometimes he'll be in a group with kids, sometimes he'll be with us. I think there is always something we can improve. I've told Jnr from now on we'll start looking at having some specific sessions on moguls, off piste, freeride/park etc......
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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fatbob, Another good solution is to start giving them a little free-rein. If you are on a section with a limited route down and sensible enough kids then take the lift down yourself and tell 'em you will see them at the bottom. There is a huge amount of parental pride to be gained in watching your offspring rip up the pistes at their speed from above when they think you are not looking!! Esp. if you can see that they are paying due regard to other users at the same time. If they don't well, then you don't repeat the exercise do you? Similarly if you are at a bar they can ride the lifts within a given route and check in with you every so often. I think it starts making them think for themselves. Of course, this might all be 'relatively decent conditions prevailing' depending on the age of the nipper and the size of the ski area allowed for 'roaming'
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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backhojo, My boys both got Gold Star at 10 and had similar dilemma - solved it this year by them taking up snowboarding 
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backhojo , our daughter - a bit older - was in the same position save we could not take her all over the mountain as you can.
She did I think 3 weeks of competition level from about 10 - 12 years old and loved it. Best probably was Plan Peisey where the instructor spent almost all week taking the kids off piste. Then Tignes - where she was the only kid to turn up so got 1:1 tuition for the full week from a really nice young instructress who concentrated on technique and then Courchevel - more technique with an emphasis on slalom racing.
She also got to do the French national classification which is great for fast skiers , got her fleche etc . She had a great time , learnt lots ( including improving her French as most if not all the other kids were French ) . She did well at the racing bit but suddenly stopped as she got so nervous in the gate.
Now 17 , she is thinking of going back to slalom racing and I doubt she would have even thought of it unless she had had the experieince from competition classes. I must also say ( gritted teeth in view of the attack on hosting ) that the ESF instructors were excellent.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Boris,
That was kind of the deal with my girls...but I'm not keen on them doing snowboarding. For one, they have fairly high end sticks... and for another, the technology in ski's these days is making skiing more fun than it was and for another, I'm not fond of the snowboarding culture and associated behavior on the pistes. I have the same with motorcycles on the freeway weaving in and out of traffic, just because they can, not that it's safe, responsible or law abiding. Just my opinion, nothing more meant by it, and don't mean to offend or start a snowboarding vs. skiing debate, just each to their own.
My girls got their gold stars at age 9 and 10 respectively, a year ago last Christmas. And as the OP states, my kids rip down the moguled blacks, ski the itineraries and ungroomed pistes with ease and very relaxed. The oldest wouldn't mind doing competition, just because the word compete is in there, and that's her middle name - so to speak, and the youngest one is against for more of less the same reason in reverse, an adversity to competing especially where her sister is competing, because her sister excels at EVERY sport she does (apart from horse riding). Can't say I blame her.
Still, in my opinion, I think the "competition" series its good because as early mentioned, the amount of gate bashing is in fact rather limited, and they get their skills refined. It would be nice if they were with other English speaking kids to they could make friends to ski with outside of lessons, but that has never happened in ESF...
It was for the above reasoning I went to Verbier, because in Switzerland, you can start free riding at age 10, not 14 as in France. In the end, we just skied together, and came to the very embarrassing discovery, that it is likely ME that is in most need of lessons. Next ski holiday could be met with the girls left to fend for themselves whilst mum is in a lesson. 
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While we're all willy waving and living vicariously through our kids...
Evolution 2 in Les Arcs do the Competition class, and again, it's not all racing and competition, more a refinement of skills. So for all the ESF bashers / haters / agnostics, there is an alternative.
After that comes "Backcountry". However, MiniRoll is too small to do that - having completed Comp last year, and not wanting to repeat, they have a minimum size/weight requirement: while she rips the slopes, she gets left behind on the flats or in v. deep powder. So this year she's had a couple of private lessons (at a similar price for a week's group lessons) and perhaps next year may have the weight to go with the group.
Having said that, she's also made friends with the daughters of a number of other British apartment owners in the resort, so there is generally someone else, non parental, around who is better/bigger/older to ski with, which she is quite happy about.
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sarah, I am just back from Hot Tots last week and would guess my eldest is probably about the same level as the OP (not sure we haven't done ESF courses last couple of weeks as had better options!!). Charlotte will book things that she thinks will work and during the last week the groups and times of lessons varied so that individuals/group dynamics worked. All of the kids (and parents) had a fantastic time and I will def hope to make whichever week Charlotte says we can go to next year!
We tend to always have used a mixture of group and private lessons to help the girls build the best skill base/have fun.... they have got different things out of each type of course.... not sure what we will do going forward but suspect smatterings of private lessons may be where we spend the cash (rather than doing this and odd weeks of group lessons).... well and Easiski weeks too
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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backhojo, fantastic- eldest of the mini-eds also got Gold Star aged 9. Since then he has skied with us but also did Competition for week- this was a mixture of gates and all terrain skiing which he really enjoyed. The last 2 weeks skiing he has telemarked which has been great. He really enjoyed the competition level class, which may have quite small numbers depending on the resort / week. He has had a couple of tries at the Fleche but not quite made it (he was gutted as was I).
I think it would be a big mistake to think that the Gold Star (or AHBs- all his badges) is all there is to ski school- arguably it is just the beginning!
There is a massive difference between Three Star and Bronze I think- middle son ( got his Bronze at Easter and he is now a completely different skier to earlier in the season (just before Xmas he had to be cajoled down a very easy Black in Obergurgle, on th elast day at Easter he looked at the monster moguls at the top of les Arcs Aguille Rouge- shouted 'that looks fun' then sped down them.
But as with everything you pays your money and takes your choice- what is a good idea depends on a whole host of things. I really enjoy skiing with my kids and as you say getting back for ski school pick up is a ball ache. If you also enjoy skiing at a good level (blacks / unlisted / itinerary routes) what about some private lessons for the two of you? Or telemarking? A real leveller.
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Or telemarking? A real leveller
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or snowboarding. Hardly a leveller, really, as a beginner kids are going to do heaps better than beginner parents. It's good to learn new stuff. Or cross-country. There was an exceptional group of kids with a trainer on XC skis round the alpine pistes here on Saturday - I suspect they were the ski club. Very impressive the way they were managing on a red piste! showing off like mad, of course, but justifiably.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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My Daughter who is nine has been doing Competition class with the ESF at Ste Foy for the last two seasons , it is excellent and doesn't involve race training everyday in Ste Foy they generally train on the race piste one morning and have the race morning apart from that they spend the week having fun , jumps , bumps ,off piste etc depending on weather and conditions . In Ste Foy the teachers have to be currently racing to teach competition class so they are young and in my daughters eyes cool and fun . This easter we decided to have week off from Ski school as we , Mum and Dad , could have a slower start . This won't be happening again as we have been dismissed as boring , back to classes then .
I would not put you off putting your son in competition with the ESF , albeit we only have experience of the ESF in Ste Foy .
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Prompted by this thread thought I would have a quick look round to see what M could do at Christmas.... New Gen do a Freeride course that looks right up her street so think I will be booking her into that (unless her best mate persuades her she needs a gold star badge to go with the other ESF.... Always a possibility as a badge has a strong attractive force!)
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katedenhaag, You'd be much better taking good tuition over an ESF badge, sure you found that last week. Natalie only ever did 2 weeks with ESF, Bronze during a week of privates and he just assessed her at that and Gold at L2A.
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You know it makes sense.
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| sarah wrote: |
| Claude B, Always found this interesting but what about a kid not old enough for Hot Shots and too good for Hot Tots which backhojo's and my son would seem to be? Or is Charlotte flexible on this? |
Sarah, after the first lesson Charlotte split the Hot Tots as two were better/stronger than the other 3, by the middle of week the two better ones had decided they wanted to be back in the main group with everyone else and still got pushed as hard in the lessons but for longer (bigger class = longer lesson). I'm guessing the entry level to Hot Tots next year might be skiing the reds and doing off piste (proper stuff not just off the edge of the piste) if this years kids are back for more as that is what they spent last week doing.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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katedenhaag, What Claude says! M will certainly get great tuition from new Gen
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Poster: A snowHead
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If my plans come off she will have 3 weeks skiing again next year - one of them with Charlotte....and she had a great week with ESF at Les Arcs so doing a course there with them is not a third rate option.... Just might be part of the mix of varied skiing for the year.
My best friend (ie mother of Ms mate) fancies doing a New Gen course too so I think the kids no longer get a vote!! Ski holiday planning is fun..... Even when next trip now 8 months away!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Good stuff, c was asking if she'd see your 2 in Les 2 Alpes next Easter.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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backhojo, My daughters friend just started ESF competition level at 9yrs old after passing gold and loves it as the instructor said on day one "right time to learn how to show off". Her brother is 7 and has gold in the bag but preferred to sit out ski school this season.
My own daughter only just started formal ski school (Evo2) at age 6, so I don't have to consider all this yet, though she did knock off levels 1 then 2 on consecutive weeks, so maybe not that long.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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the instructor said on day one "right time to learn how to show off"
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kids would just love that!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I hope that moderators won't remove this post
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+1
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Not at all davkt, I was thinking of building it in - not the skiing bit, but the talk and the search stuff.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| easiski wrote: |
| I hope that moderators won't remove this post, as it would seem some questions needed to be answered. |
Why would they?
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admin, Because I'm clearly talking about a course I run.
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FAQ
