 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi all,
After 4 seasons in tour ops, I'm going to give instructing a bash and can't wait to get started! BASI 1 in a fridge in about a month's time, BASI 2 in the Autumn.
When riding for myself my preference is definitely for freeriding and my go-to board is a Jones Flagship 164cm. I'm tempted to use this - it rides switch OK - but it's not really specialised for the task in hand... The quiver also includes a splitboard, which isn't an option, and a pair of very old cambered boards - Capita Photo Fetish 160 from 05/06 and Burton Motion from about 2002 - both of which I'm trying but not really liking...
Stats - 6' tall, 12 1/2 stone, size 7 boot.
Any recommendations for that Holy Grail of 'do-it-all' boards? Ride DH2 is definitely on the radar, and I demoed a Burton Custom Flying V the other day and found it wonderful in powder/soft snow but couldn't get on with its carving performance. Was thinking of a Burton Barracuda in 157 - anyone tried this? Soft-ish, S-rocker and twin shape, ability to put it fairly centered for all-round performance. Also very tempted by a Jones Mountain Twin - I've ridden the 2011/12 model and really liked it.
I'm after something that really carves, floats a bit and is nimble enough to demo a park or rail session. Something with a mid flex and 154-158cm in length should be good. I've always enjoyed camrock and S-rocker, but would be up for demoing a few more full camber boards. Full rocker is definitely out.
Another quick question that I really should know the answer to by now - a lot of boards indicate they have set-back on the bindings. Is this anything that I couldn't do myself by just shifting the bindings back a set of holes?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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You probably want a mid stiff true twin with one off the hybrid profiles for all round goodness. Of the ones I've ridden the TRS, Machete GT and Proto would all work well. My pick would be the NS Proto as they are really built to last and will work well everywhere.
As for setting back your bindings, fine for some powder but you wouldn't want to for carving on piste as this would put you off kilter with the side cut and flex.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| jiagedaping wrote: |
| ... Was thinking of a Burton Barracuda in 157 - anyone tried this? Soft-ish, S-rocker and twin shape, ability to put it fairly centered for all-round performance. |
No, although I rode powder with some Burton team people and there was this Norwegian guy who ripped on one of those. I think he'd even written his name on it. Size-wise with Burton boards their recommendation is usually right, although I'd not buy anything without trying it (even if you tried this years, you have to try the one you're going to buy, in my experience).
However that was bottomless powder.... so I think that it probably specifically does not solve the problem you're trying to solve. I'd guess it would be a bit of a fish-out-of-water at a dome.
I don't believe in "do it all" boards, although one "park" board I found works well in powder is the Joystick, not that I'd waste any turns in a park on it myself. Length depends on the specific board. I expect that would be crap on piste (way too soft for hard pack high speed).
Set back... directional powder boards (eg the Fish) have the reference stance with some set back. They often have taper too and fancy tails designed to do what you need your tail to do in powder. Really it's the so-called "twin" boards which are odd in that respect, although not all are actually twins. If you buy a twin (eg a Joystick or a TRS etc) then you'd need to set your stance back for powder a fraction (1-2cm) ... easy enough to do. Just make sure the tail's soft enough to work.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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forget about all your asking, for instructing in a fridge get something soft. something that you can demonstrate tortional flex clearly with. and remember your going to be demonstrating turns on a slope maybe 30m long. so drop down a size as well
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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mini.mansell, That's OK for the fridge, but less good for the L2 on the hill.
I'd go for a true twin too with a view to making switch as easy as, and find something that carves OK. On the level 1 I did the trainer was pretty keen that there was no upper body rotation. A few failed on this.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| philwig wrote: |
| jiagedaping wrote: |
| ... Was thinking of a Burton Barracuda in 157 - anyone tried this? Soft-ish, S-rocker and twin shape, ability to put it fairly centered for all-round performance. |
No, although I rode powder with some Burton team people and there was this Norwegian guy who ripped on one of those. I think he'd even written his name on it. |
Was his name 'Mr Burton'?
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Mr Pieholeo, that would be "Jake" 
jiagedaping, anything mid-stiff with a directional-twin shape is suitable. Your Jones would be fine for L1 (I did mine on a Nitro Shogun 166!). Something a bit shorter and less directional would be better for level 2.
Almost all boards have a small amount of setback (around 20mm). There are actually relatively few true twins out there. You can, of course, just move the bindings back to create the same geometry on a true twin.
I am currently dithering over whether I should ride my Amplid UNW8 (high end, stiff, cambered) or my Amplid Dopamine (cheap, soft, rocker) for my level 3 Tech in a couple of weeks. The answer seems obvious, but I have been really loving the Dopamine (and riding well on it).
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I think Terje could rip on a piece of 4 x 2.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thanks for the comments.
Not concerned about instructing in a fridge, it's not something that interests me long term. Also probably didn't phrase the question right about the binding set-back - I know how and why to set my bindings, what I want to know is if a board comes with 10 or 20cm set back, does that make it any different to one with a centered stance. If I set my bindings 10cm forwards on a board with 10cm setback, is there any difference to the flex pattern that's going to feel odd? Apparently not!
Today's tryouts were a Burton Custom in 154cm normal camber, which absolutely railed on-piste and felt very powerful - loads of pop. Slightly heavy, which I liked, and loads of grip. Took it on some crud though and although it wasn't half bad, it was a bit hard work... Looking for something more versatile.
Also tried a Ride DH2 in 152 - too short for me but still gave a good impression. Absolutely loved this - loads of grip again and I could feel the rocker at each end helping me out. Very stiff. Would have been very happy with this, but it's €500.
Also took my Capita Photo Fetish 160cm out for another blast to see if I was just getting all excited about the prospect of a new toy. Still like it a lot, but I have to put in so much energy to get any life out of it - I don't think it's really suitable for what I want it for.
So, mountain twin it is - similar to the DH2 but a fair bit softer and a hell of a lot cheaper.
Stevo - are L2 and 3 similar to ski levels where you have to use the same pair of skis throughout? Having said that, even the L3 freestyle elements aren't particularly hard:
BS/FS180 + ollies/nollies on the flat
Regular 360s FS + BS
50-50 + boardslide on a straight box
Basic pipe riding
Nothing there that requires any specialist kit or seasons of experience which is good - I don't spend much time at all in the park.
Just been asked to stay behind in VT for another couple of weeks to help finish up here, and then onto a BASI L1 late April. Can't wait!
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| Mr Pieholeo wrote: |
| Was his name 'Mr Burton'? |
Nah, he rides a Joystick, which I avoided for a while but actually they're good.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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You don't have to ride the same board throughout L2/3. We're not anal about that stuff like the skiers! (Although I think the skiers can switch skis too if they like).
Fair play if 3's are easy for you (wish they were for me) but the Freestyle part is the easy part of L3....!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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jiagedaping, re. setback: most people find it easier to ride a board with a slightly setback stance. Hence, almost all boards have a setback position as the reference stance.
As before, few boards are true twins. Many have a slightly extended nose for float in soft snow, a different flex pattern, different camber or different sidecut radius in the nose compared to the tail, even when they are nominally "twin" shapes. A true twin will have none of these characteristics. A setback stance on a true-twin is therefore unlikely to be exactly the same as a setback stance on an "all-mountain" twin.
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| jiagedaping wrote: |
Also tried a Ride DH2 in 152 - too short for me but still gave a good impression. Absolutely loved this - loads of grip again and I could feel the rocker at each end helping me out. Very stiff. Would have been very happy with this, but it's €500.
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http://www.bucksboarding.co.uk/p-1364-ride-dh2-155.aspx
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You know it makes sense.
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Oh aye, once you're a BASI member, you'll get discount on Ride gear...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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stevomcd, what's your recommendation for a decent "all-mountain" board ?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| mini.mansell wrote: |
| forget about all your asking, for instructing in a fridge get something soft. something that you can demonstrate tortional flex clearly with. and remember your going to be demonstrating turns on a slope maybe 30m long. so drop down a size as well |
I'd be offering the above advice to!
Although you may not be that bothered about teaching indoors you do need to demo short, quick and COMPLETE turns. Out on the mountain (where you've been for the last 4 seasons) you get used to big carving turns and rarely fully complete turns before your dropping in to your next turn. In the last few weeks of the season get out and pratcise for an hour of each day short, complete turns and then slow it down as much as you can...then slow it down again. Remember when teaching your demonstrating not impressing.
Good luck, and for the record I did BASI 1 on a true twin, mid-flex!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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another few questions i could ask to the OP
where did you learn to ride? how did you learn? have you taken any lessons on your seasons or just spent your time shredding?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Thanks everyone - had my first rip on the mountain twin today and I think it'll be perfect. If I was riding for myself I'd rather have had the DH2, but the Jones is a lot softer which is something I was after. Good price too.
manicpb - very much in agreement with this, I've had a few prelim sessions with some trainers out here and the message has been consistent - slow it down, do it switch, make each turn identical and complete. I enjoy doing this as well, very relaxing, so no issues.
mini.mansell - I swapped from skis at 14ish, and had a couple of week long holidays. When I was 18 I did a season in Meribel, and then from 2010->2013 I've been working seasons in France. I try to take a lesson a month, though it's more like a lesson every 2 months, and I try to take onboard what they say, although I'm aware I've probably got some bad habits too.
The bit that I'm most worried about for the course now is the flat-land freestyle - nollies, ollies and olly/nolly 180s. No problems at all with spinning in any direction, but nollies and presses aren't really something I've ever incorporated into my riding - I've always got the air I've wanted from cliff drops or kickers. Time to go back to the green slopes for the last 2 weeks before the course methinks...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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i would worry more about the stuff you dont know about.
you have to pass your level 1 first. and the people that find that the hardest are those who have been riding a lomg time with little tuition. once you have that you need some firm time taking on board the rebuild to your stance/posture that will come from your trainer.
when you do your level 2 a year later (if your planning on doing the L2 only a few months after your L1 your either very very confident, very wealthy, or very foolish) the things you will have to work on will be your short radius turns on steeper terraint, (what Basi call Steeps) concentrating on for/aft at the correct times. with Visible tortional flex.
my opinion only but i do work in one of the indoor slopes in the uk and am involved heavily in the training/supervising aspect of the business.
Good Luck on your L1. thats easily passable by anyone who is willing to be rebuilt basi style.
L2 is a step above though. not a given by any means.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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AndAnotherThing.., spoilt for choice really!
Burton Custom / Custom X
Amplid Paradigma
Ride DH
Signal OG
etc., etc., etc...
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stevomcd, cool. How did it go by the way ?
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jiagedaping, sounds like you've done your homework!
I think mini.mansell is being a tad tough on you but he is right on a couple of things. BASI will try to rip you out of your riding style and fit you into their mould (the main reason I fobbed BASI off) and just concentrate on L1 first.
As I say, I think you've got a good grounding to start off on...Good luck!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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AndAnotherThing.., haven't started yet! One more week to train...
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stevomcd, Good luck with it !
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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not my intention to be harsh, simply my understading of the original post was that the level was not even being considered and the only thing to consider was the l2.
maybe i miss read that. but thats how it read to me.
get your L1. learn to teach. go for your l2.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Holy grail of do it all boards - you could do a lot worse than a skate banana from lib tech, forgiving, fun, floats, fast, minor criticism would be carves very differently from a traditional camber but a small loss compared to all the plus points. Would be a great board for teaching beginner intermediate.
What's basi style ?
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I'm not sure if BASI publish their training manuals, but you can read the CASI stuff online any time you want.
The whole deal about instructing is that they teach one simple way to ride: an orthodoxy. That changes over time, as political shifts occur in the teaching organizations.
The teaching schemes tend to be extremely narrow. Most people barely take one or two lessons, so you really need to teach only very basic things. It's important that separate trainers over different seasons teach broadly the same things.
There are lots more and better ways to ride than they teach in school. It's a bit like physics: school physics teachers are a fine thing, but they're not generally going to win any Nobel prizes. Translation: don't confuse "instructor" with "expert rider", they are different things. Becoming a BASI instructor is all about learning specifically what "BASI style" is and how to inculcate it. It doesn't make you an expert rider, although it doesn't stop you from becoming one either.
I'd not fret about what board to teach beginners on. Anything will work.
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You know it makes sense.
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hsdee, sorry, but Skate Banana would be a terrible board for instructor courses. Fun board, but not high-performance. Not a bad board for teaching newbies on though.
philwig, agree with you at level 1. You can't pass BASI 2 without being a decent rider though and anyone who gets through level 3 is a bona-fide ripper.
Didn't get mine by the way. Got close though and will be back next year.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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stevomcd, You will have to define high performance to me ? I treated myself to a banana this year having demo'd one last year, It is the most versatile fun all round board i ever had and fast and stable to boot. I have other boards in my quiver collected over many seasons which i might opt for if I want an on piste carving day or a big fat powder day, or an early season rock hopper. But the banana was used mostly this year as it is just fun and versatile. But lets agree to disagree, some of the boards my friends like I don't. It's an individual choice and if it works, then ride.
So I am imagining basi style to be some 50:50 slightly duck footed gorilla stance ? am I wrong ? or is it just the teaching method 1, 2, 3....
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Poster: A snowHead
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stevomcd, Sorry to hear 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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So a quick update - I passed! 7/10 on the course passed, and all passed their teach, so just technical resits for those who failed that section. Felt sorry for a few of them, they were really close by the end and had come on a long way - must have been tough to have just missed out!
I didn't have a huge amount to change in my riding, I'd been practising the BASI style for the past 3 seasons and that all paid off, just a couple of little tweaks. The trainer said I should be fine for the L2 in late July/early August with a week or 2 working on some of the pointers he gave me (mostly sliding the board underneath me rather than moving my body for fore-aft movement in the turns, and also I have a tendancy to ride a wee bit on the front foot)
The teaching I really enjoyed, and I've been enjoying my shadowing hours since - half way there now!
Also, the trainer liked the board and said it looked very suitable for L2/3 - so all in all a success! Just need to find myself a 1st aid course now!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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jiagedaping, Congratulations !
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Well done,
what's the problem with riding on the front foot ? for some terrain this can be very useful. It's an old school method i know, had a big argument with an instructor about it this year. Ok not good for powder, jumps etc, but it's very useful to be confident to put the weight forward to initiate turns on steeps, moguls, ride quickly through flats, etc. Just curious.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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well done.
who was the basi trainer on the L1?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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hsdee - I'm in agreement but my fault was that I was doing it too much and not getting enough grip through the rear foot as a result. The technique I've been told to aim for is to ride centred, go forwards for turn initiation and back for end of turn grip. This is what I thought I was doing, but I was actually riding a little forward of centred, going further forward with my upper body for turn initiation and going back with my upper body for grip, with a slight waist bend. Sounds serious when you type it out, but wasn't doing it a huge amount so hopefully very correctable in time for the L2!
mini - sorry but I'd rather keep online chat completely anonymous. He/she was really good though!
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hsdee, getting onto the front foot to initiate turns is fine, but if you can't then get the weight back onto the back foot quickly (well before the fall-line) then you won't get much grip or performance out of the turn. Even in moguls, you need to get the back foot active early-on.
jiagedaping, getting stuck on the front foot is one of the biggest issues people have at level 2, so make sure you get it sorted!
hsdee, to pass the high-level instructor courses requires pretty high-end carving plus very tight, grippy turns on steep pistes. Skate Banana is not going to help you to achieve that. On my L3 course, everyone (including the 2 trainers!) was riding a standard camber board, which I think makes the point pretty clearly. Don't get me wrong, it's a super-fun board, but not ideal for that kind of riding. I rode a rocker board myself for a lot of the time this season and really loved it, just so much fun to be out on.
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I'd love to find out what a basi instructor would make of me, just out of curiosity ?
banana for me is grippy on steeps, but as I said before, totally strange for carving and if you need this for one of the levels then possibly not the best board I will agree.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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hey jiagedaping, assuming you've not spent your hard earned lolly on a stick yet (just thought that joke up, mid flow) my 2 ps' worth would be a rocker combo that is has a twin shape, you'll need to going backwards quite a lot on those greens and blues you'll be on and a board that is easy to turn is a must. I've been on the lib techs for a few years now and ride a magic, although I not a true twin and more geared for steeper stuff, so not my recommendation for you, I think the banana is probably one of the best all round boards there is and for your stats i'd venture 159ish you can ride them a bit shorter that you would another board, great in pow, rails and cruising. I found it a little soft after a full season (I live in meribel)for doing the real steep no-fall stuff but really good fun.
good luck with the BASI when you get on to 3,and 4 it starts to get really good, stick it out.
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FAQ
