 Poster: A snowHead
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We're off to Meribel next weekend, and have someone in our party who (for medical reasons) has said she only wants to do cross country skiing. Any advice on where and how to get started? Am assuming it makes sense to pay for a lesson, at least on day 1; and am aware of cross country marked pistes somewhere in the region of the Altiport. Would welcome any additional thoughts, tips or suggestions.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Agree with Pam W on the slope point. Doing a steep black for the first time is less scary, and as for turning.....
It is brilliant exercise. Basic Classique is reasonably intuitive BUT on on the flat. Definitely have lesson/s.
Skating is different kit and different technique. Much tougher to learn and much more rewarding. Interestingly slopes and turns less of a scary issue. I think it is down to the boots being more supportive
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| Quote: |
Basic Classique is reasonably intuitive BUT on on the flat.
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But in our area there isn't any flat - even the green routes involve gentle gradients where you have to snowplough if you can't do the "pas tournant". The "black" circuit is 23 kms and involves a lot of gradients. And even on the flat, there's a vast difference between just shuffling around and doing it right. Our instructor would shout at us "ne marchez pas; c'est un sport de GLISSE". Even uphill we were exhorted to use "des petits pas tonique" and get some glide up the hill. When you see people who do it right, getting up hill using a lot less effort, you see the point. And we learnt different steps with single push, double push, etc. It was quite a revelation if you thought XC was just shuffling round on the flat.
I'd like to try "skating" but I think I need to get better at the classique style first.
Our ocal ski school does free "introduction to XC" lessons on Sundays.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Expect palpitations and lots of huffing and puffing - even if reasonably punter fit
+1 for lessons, also a social element to it
Great and addictive activity, fast becoming my most frequent code of choice, simply because as a weekend warrior normally, I can get out on the XCs before work during the week and increasingly after work as the nights lighten - snowline allowing of course
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Think we must be lucky here in Serre Chevalier with the x-country pistes being flat, as no need for lessons, I did three hours few years ago, and then again yesterday when I did a hard 15km and then again today when I took the Mrs out, she has now bought the kit she rented for 110€ - we also took the dog with us, see blog here http://www.anotherharddayattheoffice.co.uk/2013serrecheblog.html
Think maybe as we do a fair amount of ski touring, running and cycling etc that maybe our "fitness" precludes the necessity for lessons, and we just get on with it adapting our technique getting better at gliding as we spend more time on the skis.
In fact I'm now thinking about ditching the classic skis and going for skating, though have set myself a target now of going classic up to the Col D'Izoard before changing over to skating, as going up will be the easy bit, it's the coming down that will be more interesting!
There are quite a few YouTube clips to help you understand the technique better.
My mate over here for a week could not understand why today (emailing all our mates saying I had lost the plot) I had opted for x-country over 35cms of fresh, but that 35cms of fresh was quite heavy, viz was bad, didn't want to pay for a ticket, and tomorrow have a full on day in La Grave!
And then will probably be back on the x-country skis on Tuesday - think if you do a lot of cycling / running and are prepared to go for the "burn" (no pain = no gain) then it's a great sport on a par with said sports. However it's also great for those just wishing to get out and try something new, and there is no need to beast yourself!
Though has to be said, we are lucky to be out in the Mountains for a quite a long time so we can opt to do other "stuff" apart from resort skiing, whilst those out for just a week it's quite a call to pass on a day's more normal skiing and do x-country.
However from what I'm hearing here, more people are going for two or three days individual lift pass rather than a week and then doing other "stuff" such as x-country.
Plus all my lycra cycling kit I have with me and cycling jackets / gloves is great for x-country 
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We started just borrowing some kit and giving it a go. I felt pretty easy, but we did spend the day on a frozen lake with no gradient. A couple of days later we tried a slightly hillier route and that was really tricky. The slightest slope feel like an extreeeeme black run.
Learning how to snowplough, and half plough, on skinny skis with no edges takes some courage. I found a lesson really useful for this, and for pushing me from shuffline to a graceful glide (ok, in my head it is.)
Waxing seems to be a dark art. Get it wrong and you stick to the snow, or can't get up a hill. I've somehow managed both. That's why I now have fishscale skis.
There is no need to go all out with the lycra, but you probably want to wear less than for downhill skiing as you will work up a sweat.
Have fun!
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janeed,
Mrs M would give a big +1 for the fish scales.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| pam w wrote: |
| I would strongly suggest she signs up for a whole week of lessons. It can be seriously scary to be faced with anything other than the most imperceptible of slopes without a few skills. If she signs up for a week she will see the area, meet some other people and be sure she won't find herself somewhere she can't cope. |
I think that's an interesting idea. Sign up for lessons, tour the area during lessons, learn some valuable skill in the process.
Especially for the solo skiers, this is also an automatic "mixer" to find others compatible to ski with.
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| Quote: |
Think we must be lucky here in Serre Chevalier with the x-country pistes being flat,
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Well you need some flat stuff to get started but ultimately the more interesting terrain is well worth while. I wouldn't fancy a downhill ski resort which consisted only of green runs though it would seem like heaven for a beginner. Cycling gear is probably ideal - I don't have anything very good for XC and am hoping to find something in Albertville today, preferably in a sale!
Les Saisies, though only a minor downhill resort, is one of the top XC resorts in France and as it's the only area I've experienced my ideas are probably a bit skewed. This was during our first week of lessons - and we started at the altitude of the village, in the background. Because we were beginners we are actually ascending a "down" track at that point - you can see the tracks on the left. It's not advisable to do that without an instructor! It's frowned upon. But as you can see, there's a bit of a descent. That's a blue circuit - there are some places a fair bit steeper. The tracks stop on steeper descents.
Even in an easier area though I do think lessons are a good idea. An experienced ski-tourer has got a lot of relevant skills and characteristics but for a beginner - especially one who is perhaps a bit nervous - I'd say lessons are essential for an enjoyable week.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Decathlon had really good clothing designed for XC earlier in the season but it's all gone now as they set up for the walking/camping/climbing season.
If you want to go for the mega work out try to get into Skating. I wouldn't start now though as the snow (in Samoens) is heavy and you work even harder. If you are learning it also means maintaining form is difficult. Classic feels right in the current conditions.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Been thinking recently actually about changing from a classic set up to a more XCD (cross-country "downhill", full metal edge, more side-cut, bigger dimensions all round), be a bit more practical for landy tracks and forest trails where no tracks are cut (plus much easier on undulating terrain due to goemetry and edge). Still waxless pattern available. Anyone on these things? wouldnt know where to start for brands etc
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Champagny le haut across the valley from Meribel, above Champagny oddly, is a large flat area in a hidden valley which has good facilities and instruction is available. Not sure of the conditions at this time of year. If you have a car its an easy trip.
http://www.champagny.com/en/winter-champagny/introduction/advantages-of-champagny/valley-of-champagny-le-haut.html
I first tried cross country (classic) in Norway and in 3 days was climbing but not descending Black Pistes On the third day we covered 35km despite several stops for hot chocolate in the many cafes we planned our route around. I would point out that the area in Norway around Nordsetter is superbly well prepared and has hundreds of km of pisted classic tracks of varying difficulties.
For more adventurous cross country try Grand Naves.
http://www.naves-savoie.com/fre/pages/display/ski-de-fond
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Tue 26-03-13 0:47; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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^ There is a cross country trail around the nature reserve in Mottaret.
+1 for Decathlon's XC clothing. They have a couple of quality levels and I picked up some very good XC trousers for about 35 euros. It's probably just me, but I don't find their XC gloves to be warm enough.
NotMrsFS and I have been doing a fair amount of XC this year and it's not uncommon for me to get up early to do an hour in Les Gets as the sun gets out of bed - especially on days where we're skiing more "socially" with friends.
I must admit that I'm in two minds about lessons. NotMrsFS has done just a two hour semi-private and got enough information to be "safe"(ish) going downhill(ish) and we've noticed significant improvements in technique and my "lap" time for my morning outings has gone down from 75 minutes to around 40 minutes. Given how much effort we've put into improving our alpine and telemark there's a bit of me that doesn't mind that we're pretty rubbish at it and I'm somehow happy to "bimble" along.
Highlight of the season has got to be seeing skimottaret doing his first bit of downhill on XC skis. The look of terror was rather special 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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If you get the bug and want to venture further afield I'd highly recommend Akaslompolo in Finland or if you really want to get away from it all, the Methow Valley in Washington state
Regardign clothing, we tend to use base layes with a microfleece and a shell. A layering system is what's required. However I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that "breathable" fabrics that are waterproof and not breathable at all. Unfortunately the moisture you produce is too great for the goretex or whatever version of it you use. to pass through it's membrane.
I think windproof is better rather thasn waterproof (unless it's snowing / raining of course)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| dsoutar wrote: |
| I think windproof is better rather thasn waterproof (unless it's snowing / raining of course) |
My limited experience is that even if it's snowing really heavily then softshell is the way to go.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
Highlight of the season has got to be seeing skimottaret doing his first bit of downhill on XC skis. The look of terror was rather special
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Oh, how I wish I'd seen that! 
I was in Decathlon yesterday but they had v little left. some quite nice softshells but very few sizes - and the French XS is very S indeed. I did buy a very nice stretchy pair of "ski alpinisme" trousers. Not that I am going to be going near any ski alpinisme but I think they will be good for XC and I can't quite bring myself to do the full on Lycra.
I bimbled round Au Vieux Campeur too, looking at softshells etc but really I don't know enough about them to splash out - I'll do some research and look when I am back in the UK.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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One reason for suggesting lessons for the week was social - a lone beginner might not have a very fun week.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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skimottaret - and a very stylish fall it was too. Inevitability is sloooooo-motion...
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skimottaret, looking relaxed indeed!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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So how would it work in the UK on the (Getting less) rarer times when it snows, on things such as the old-railway line walking/biking trails, obviously without cut tracks ? Anyone had a go ?
skimottaret, Yep, not making it look canard at all.
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Tarquin, you'd probably be better off on the wider nordic touring style of skis - which are too fat to go in cut tracks. But then you'd be better off getting away from the railways lines altogether and just going touring!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Thanks for all the advice! Have booked 5 mornings in a group for 175 euros. Mostly "classique" technique, but final day consists of "exploring skating". Also includes the option (at extra cost) of going with the class in a bus to Champagny for a full day. Have been advised to go to Altistore by the Altiport for hiring cross country kit.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Julian T, The cross-country area is Ok at Meribel, and should be good fun in an instructed group. There is a restaurant/bar, forget the name, by the cross country start which looked very enjoyable on a sunny day 
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| Quote: |
Have booked 5 mornings in a group for 175 euros. Mostly "classique" technique, but final day consists of "exploring skating". Also includes the option (at extra cost) of going with the class in a bus to Champagny for a full day.
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that sounds really good - I hope your friend as a good week.
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You know it makes sense.
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Tarquin, I've done laps around our local park when the snow was good enough last year and the year before. Great practice and good exercise. I just have skinny classic skis without metal edges. Even managed to get back to the front door 2 years ago, and that is central(ish) Manchester.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Golf courses are great places to potter about - undulating terrain, big runout areas usually to practice downhilling, some greenkeepers may not be too keen but most should be ok if cover is good, you avoid the actual greens and don't do any damage
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Poster: A snowHead
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I did 2.5 hours of non-stop XC this morning.
God my body hurts now.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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FlyingStantoni,
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Everything I know about going downhill in three handy words. We find it a useful shorthand on the slopes.
Tuck
Both feet in tracks. Tuck for stability.
Duck
"Demi-canard" or "canard" as the local French instructors call it. A half snowplough with one foot in the track or a full snowplough.
F*ck
For when the other two techniques don't work. As demonstrated by skimottaret above. He could be heard calling this just as he hit the apex of the bend - "F*ck! F*ck!!!!"
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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FlyingStantoni, One great benefit of being with an instructor was that when the tracks disappeared round a downhill bend they can either tell you to just go for it, and run straight down in the tracks (no problem at all, nice swishing noise) or to keep your speed down by doing a demi-canard. Also no great problem, I got the hang of that.
In the F*ck sections however the tracks disappear (always a bad sign) and for a beginner there is no option other than snowplough. Well, there is, you can take the skis off and walk comfortably down, carrying the featherlight skis and walking in your comfy boots until the tracks begin again. That does seem a cop-out, though.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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If it's not been mentioned Champagny-le-Haut has some really good x/c skiing; including some virtually flat green runs. The setting is great too and the Refuge du Bois for a well earned drink / meal at the end of it.
I learned "skating" with my French partner who's been skiing since knee high and the first experience demonstrated that high levels of fitness are no match for technique. After just 6km she was looking like she'd just stepped out of the front door and I'm out of breath and a sweaty mess. A bit different now and regularly do up to 26km including the "black" at Les Saisies which has 300m of ascent and some technical descents. I've skied at Meribel but can't say that it was my favourite area for x/c skiing. One of the best in the area is at La Feclaz in the Bauges above Chambery (c. 140km of pistes).
If you want to avoid a lot of frustration and slow progress get some quality lessons.
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After just 6km she was looking like she'd just stepped out of the front door and I'm out of breath and a sweaty mess.
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I have some great photos from a trip to Norway a few years ago. The majority show us carefully side stepping up a longish, steepish slope, for a good half an hour.
The final one shows us walking back down the same slope, skis in hand. We got to the top, and realised it was just too steep on the other side for us to ski down. 2 minutes of shame!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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janeed,
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FAQ
