 Poster: A snowHead
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I have recently come back from the PdS, and I have to say conditions were amazing, however, as the days wore on, a few icy/hard patches began to appear... Now I don't normally have issues with icy patches, although I have been known to get put on my backside on occasion, however, on this trip I found myself incapable of riding over them without my board totally going from underneath me. On both edges...
My board was serviced before I left so I assume that all was ok on that front. The areas in question were on quite steep sections, but any attempt to try and regain some control (and self esteem) resulted in me flat on my face or backside... 
I was wondering, does anyone have any advice on riding over icy patches... I know the key is to try and do just that, ride over them, but when the slope is steep, an edge is occasionally needed...
I am not a beginner on a board, but by no means 'Awesome' either... I can get down pretty much anything (without having to edge) and ride off piste occasionally... However, this part of my riding really got to me on my last trip... I seemed to be the only one that couldn't get over these sections, still stood up
Thx folks... 
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 19-03-13 22:47; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Could be lots of things, but the most likely candidate is posture.
You need to have your posture sorted and have your weight properly stacked over your board. If you're bending at the waist or sticking your bum out, your centre of gravity will be outside the board and you'll go down.
Have an instructor take a look at your riding.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Wot stevomcd said. And it's all about the knees. Bend them some more. Probably a lot more.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Less edge angle will help too - unless you're carving very hard you're not going to get your edge into the hard stuff as well as you would normally, so use a bit of base to give you more surface area to ride on.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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AlpineAddict, Glad I'm not the only one!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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AlpineAddict, don't be too hard on yourself. There were some brutal ice patches in PdS over the last weekend until the snow came back on Sunday. I have two suggestions. The first one is sharper edges. I know you had your board serviced but if the edges weren't sharp enough, that will have had a massive effect on your stability on hard ice. One day's riding on ice is enough to dull your edges so if you found you were ok on day one and got worse over the week - the edges could be implicated.
The second suggestion is basically what stevomcd, and Lizzard, said, but I'd also add that it is important to load your edges positively in icy conditions. That means you need to attack the hill more and commit to the turns. If the edge doesn't get loaded hard enough at the start of a turn transition, you can skid for miles on ice before it ever digs in. On the other hand, if you load the edge well at the start of the turn, the board is more likely to stick and carve around rather than skid.
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Technique-wise, what they said. If you hit an icy patch and your lose your edge, you shouldn't go down if you're in the right place. If you're banked right over you would, but you're unlikely to be comitted that hard if the surface isn't good anyway. Translation: don't push hard in the turn if you're riding on a poor surface, treat it with respect.
I always sharpen my own edges, and I don't detune them, but then I ride raceboards... which are good at riding icy courses by design. Most snowboards are designed for park tricks. If you're riding reverse camber that would make it harder I think.
True ice is no fun for anyone but is extremely rare on public slopes.
Icy patches... the standard trick is to.... not turn on the patches. I know it sounds obvious, but most people don't do it
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
the standard trick is to.... not turn on the patches
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That thing. Ride the sides of the piste not the middle and avoid corners which get heavy traffic.
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Snowboard on powder days and ski on icy days! 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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grow up, it was a joke! hence the wink
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Thx all... I think it was just that it was a very steep section and was immediatly over a crest, where we always stopped (for some reason), so it was always as soon as we got up, we hit Ice.. Guess I need to grow some balls and lean into things more as opposed to leaning back and wooooooosh !!!!
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You know it makes sense.
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Technique is a funny one. I learnt to board in Scotland, so my habitual technique was quite loose, meaning that I always keep my knees bent and some spring in my back. I look like a monkey riding a board. However when the sound effects tell me its ice, I have the right balance to shove the edge a bit further in for a turn.
However I took a lesson (the first in 6 years) at the Snowheads bash in Kronplatz. (Note: constant well groomed powder) with a one time Olympic boarder (allegedly). He spent the full hour trying to get me to straighten up! Its good fun and do-able on powder. Hit ice and you've nothing to turn with.
Out of sheer madness, I took another lesson in France later in the season, and that instructor said my stance was excellent, and spent the entire lesson trying to teach my daughter to relax and bend her knees on the board...like Dad...
Different strokes..
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Strax, my mantra on the board is " make like a monkey" 
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Poster: A snowHead
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I absolutely agree with the mass here, defiantly sounds like a posture issue, try and imagine you're (excuse the crude) taking a dump strapped into your board, but you don't want any to land on your beautiful deck so your back bottom must overhang the edge!! That should put you in roughly the right position, also try to keep your feet flat through your boots to the board. it's killer on the legs until they man up....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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taking a dump strapped into your board, but you don't want any to land on your beautiful deck so your back bottom must overhang the edge!!
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No, no and double, triple no!
Buttocks/hips stay over heels as much as possible. "Dumping" is very old-school technique and now strongly discouraged as it puts the c of g outside the edge of the board.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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robapplegate, throw fruit at people and show your bottom to passing females?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Stevomcd
Is it? Old school ehh? Yes I see your point though, but not entirely convinced as your anus is not directly under you as you squat but out a little. I do agree with keeping the centre of gravity inline and over your bindings (it can't be stressed enough the same as having your knees bent).
I'm not at home at the mo' but when I get back I'll make a complicated system of plumb lines and mirrors  and get back on this.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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On one of my trips my instructor had a fun little game to play with us.
On a fairly gentle slope, he had us stick our arms out like we were being crucified, but otherwise in a normal snowboarding stance. He then had us bend at the waist till our hands touched the front of the board, and then again at the back. If you weren't perfectly balanced, you fell over.
Not terribly technical, and its easy to cheat and adjust as you go down. But if you think you are balanced, its a really good way to check it.
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"Dumping" is very old-school technique and now strongly discouraged as it puts the c of g outside the edge of the board.
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That's not really true from a purely mathmatical point of view. Whatever position you adopt, your CoG will stay within the base area of the board, otherwise you will just fall over. If you put more weight backwards off the heel side, then you just end up putting more of your upper body weight over the toe side to compensate. If on the other hand you keep your buttocks over your heels, you end up keeping your torso more upright to compensate.
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monkey, when you're moving in a turn, your c of g can be outside the base of your board without you falling over as there are forces other than gravity acting on you.
It makes you very vulnerable to being knocked off balance by changes in terrain though (which is why it's discouraged). As you say, it also leads to "breaking at the waist" and to less edge angle as you can't keep your balance at higher leans.
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FAQ
You can board on glacial ice (ie. Tignes, Summer) You just have to relax and absorb rather than stiffen and fight. The more you avoid it the more frightening it gets, go find the crappy stuff and practice riding it. It will do wonders for your technique on the rest of the hill. Snowboarding is not some sort of 'easy option', it requires just as much effort and skills acquisition as the 'plankers'. 
