 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi Steve...yes does help thankyou. I'm not sure what you mean by 'rooms for single parents' .....why would we need special rooms? We would just share a twin or double like anyone else? Esprit offer the discounts regardless of whether the child shares a room or has their own. Single parents, 2 parents....any number of kids...surely wouldn't have a bearing on whether kids eat with parents or not? Gosh...everything is sounding more and more complicated.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I think the other I need to say...is that we are going together. So my boy can have a few lessons in the morning, but then we ski together the rest of the day. I've no intention of using child care apart from perhaps once in the evening if going for a week.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Esprit have a few rooms that they give child discounts to children travelling with one parent - it's not in all their properties - i think this year there's four chalets/rooms where they'll offer discounts to one adult with one child. And dinner is (from memory) adults only, so the kids (under 13, I think) eat at "teatime" and the adults later. There's also a couple of chalets where everyone eats together - i think steve's point was that the "single parent" discounts work aren't necesarily the same as the "family dining" ones.
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Great! Sounds brilliant. I'll go with esprit then  Their 'cocoa club' is free anyway...so a chance for junior to chill out with other kids. Be even better for him if he's having a morning of lessons with some of them. I can join him after dinner. I'm not fussed about the whole 3 courses thing so could duck out early....
This esprit business is sounding better and better.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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alyefs - I posted a similar question on another snowheads forum - http://www.snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=98041 - and eventually opted for Esprit. The clincher for me was (a) the childcare on offer and (b) getting the full child discount whilst avoiding the under occupancy supplement. There are only a few rooms in some of their chalets where you can get this superb deal. We are going during Scottish half-term so quite an expensive time to go. In saying that I'm delighted with the final costs:-
Adult = £769
Child - £769 less 90% discount = £76.90
Flight Supplement - 2 @ £69 = £138
Kids Ski School = £199
Afternoon Kids Club = £199
Lift Pass Adult = £196
Lift Pass Child = £165
Total = £1,743
This is what the Esprit web site has to say about its offer:-
| Quote: |
Single Parent Special Offers
Prices are normally based on at least two full paying persons per room, but if just one parent wants to ski with one or two children, we are delighted to offer these rooms in selected properties where we waive this requirement, so the children receive the full discounts, even though accompanied by only one full-paying adult.
Special Offer ski rooms for 1 adult + 1 child
FRANCE
Alpe d’Huez Chalet Hotel Mariandre Room 2
Méribel Chalet Hotel Alba Room 7
La Rosière Chalets Arnica, Begonia, Camelia Room 3
Val d’Isère Chalet Hotel Ducs de Savoie Rooms 107, 110 |
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| alyefs wrote: |
This esprit business is sounding better and better. |
I think it sounds great, and it would have saved me a lot of rounding up people to fill chalets over the last few years as my wife doesn't ski!
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Exactly Andy! That very selection of text you copied and pasted it what sold it to me. Children receiving full discount...with 1 paying adult. In great resorts too.
Now I'm free of my uncooperative ex....we can do anything we like! Much better
My only dilemma now is whether to book early with a deposit...or book last minute and get it cheaper.....arrggghhh!
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| alyefs wrote: |
My only dilemma now is whether to book early with a deposit...or book last minute and get it cheaper.....arrggghhh! |
Given the small number of "one plus one" rooms i think booking early would be wise.
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| Quote: |
My only dilemma now is whether to book early with a deposit...or book last minute and get it cheaper.....arrggghhh!
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That is a risk that only you can assess. However, I'd say this: there are only 5 rooms available per week that give you the full discount while not hitting you with single occupancy supplements. While costing up the options I looked at another hotel that didn't have the "Single Parent" offer and the cost was significantly more expensive.
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Hmmm....well Gaza. I think considering I wouldn't want kids club in afternoons...wouldn't be travelling half term..or It's unlikely at least....we wouldn't have flight supplements as can easily get to Manchester or Gatwick.....then we would be looking at even less.
Am liking the sound of Esprit! I suppose I might have lessons too....depending on how much I can put aside.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Hmmm....I wonder what a supplement is for. Never the less. Not expensive really. Still cheaper than if we did individually I'm sure. Plus all the other perks outweigh little obstacles such a flight supplements....
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alyefs, on the book early or late, I booked early with Esprit (last May) to go this April (14th). They currently hav offers for a family of 4 which work out MORE than we paid for the family of 4 from their early bird brochure, and by booking early we got to pick an apartment room meaning our two girls get their own bedroom inside our rooms.
We had a great time with Esprit when we went before as well.
Another tip don't book the ski hire through them, book through AlpinResorts (using the auto clicky that will be added) we saved ourselves a lot by doing that. Lift passes Work out quite reasonable through them though.
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You know it makes sense.
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Nicky, thanks for this. There seems to be an ever resounding Yes, for Esprit! Fortunately we are only 2....and I'm happy for my son to be in my bed.....he's only little. Spends half his wknd getting in with me as it is!
I would love to book early....but we have a family dog with cancer. Currently in remission but with no indication of how long he will soldier on! He can't go in kennels either....and would be reluctant to go abroad (me not him) So we will either wait and may pay more....or pay a deposit and may lose it.
Anyway....I think I have my answer with regard to what to book. Thanks for the tip re ski hire.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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alyefs, yep sounds like it
I have been watching their offers (from the view point of would I have been better of waiting and going last minute) and I have seen quite a number of offers for either a couple + infant or one adult one child, so I am sure you will be fine (though I haven't compared the early bird costs vs offers).
My girls are only little as well (3 & 6) but from past experience they and us don't sleep well when we are all in one room but with them being so young we don't want them just in their own room which is why we wanted the apartment (we are staying in Pepi Gabl in St Anton).
Your poor dog and you, very hard when they are ill.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| alyefs wrote: |
The only aspect I'm not keen on.....at all.....is the idea that there are adult only dinners in some of these places? What's that all about? We don't eat separately at home....we don't have different sittings when we go out in the evening. Certainly wont go for a company that condones such a culture...... |
To be fair, it's not something we would tend to go for. However, the children eat together first, then get to play together when the adults have their meal. Kids tend to get so tired when skiing they can't last as long until tea time and I think they appreciate having down time to play with other kids. Doubt they all want to sit around a table with a load of adults boring each other with tales of their ski day ! Thought you wanted some time for 'you' as well - this should satisfy both your needs. Adult time for Mum, kids time for Efan
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Megamum wrote: |
| alyefs, I am a master of the DIY on a budget holiday. You need to go self catering, drive there and make sure that plant yourself totally on a ski-in/out location that way you can return to the chalet for lunch and save a fortune on the hill without wasting too much time going in for lunch. If you drive take as much grub with you from the UK esp. the meat. I can take sufficient meat for the whole week in a freezer box with plenty of ice. Aim to use the stuff like chicken first and keep sausages and beef for later in the week as they will keep, with a bit of luck some will still contain ice crystals when you arrive and can be packed back in the ice box of the refridgerator. Packet seasoning mixes that you can make up with water save space and if you drive try and take a crock pot then you can have food hot when you arrive back at night. I can do a holiday for 4 for a week for <£2K inc. everything! |
I do that as well, but actually go a step further, and make the meals ahead of time and freeze them, and put them in a freeze box. I do bring spice packages, as that can be another small money pit when preparing a meal. But, when I'm prepared with the meals so they are basically heat up only, I'm also more relaxed not having to slave in the kitchen after a day of skiing. After all, it's my vacation too! With any luck, you can just put the freeze box outside and everything stays frozen for a week. I have a shopping list of what I need to by locally, and I stick to it...OK apart from some of the yummy pastries calling my name from across the aisle in the supermarket...
OP is largely vegetarian, so she'd have to adjust on the meat plan, but for others reading this, one thing I notice is the meat in France seems to be expensive, and if you shop at home, you can take your time, shop the sale, freeze it or prepare ahead.
I totally agree, that paying the extra money for ski in/out is worth it for having the ability to come back for lunch, and for overall relaxation during the ski trip, and the hassle factor of getting on buses or in cars or what have you...
My kids each have one hot chocolate a day on the mountain, and they split either a crepe or french fries...that costs me about 10 euro a day, and then it feels like vacation
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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+1 damobloke1, I quite agree.
I would put junior into ski lessons, he'll have fun with the other kids, and you can have your me time (or ski with other parents which can be fun too) and then ski with junior in the afternoons.
Kids do get really tired skiing - it's an early start as well at Esprit, I seem to remember having to get kids completely ready to leave at 8.45 including breakfasted, dressed, ready for skiing...takes a lot longer than school uniform and they were tired so didn't want to get up! So the answer is definitely an early dinner and early to bed (or to play) leaving adults free to socialise. The groups are small and it works. My family have always eaten together as well - but at 6- 6.30 not waiting till 8pm. The kids never minded eating with their friends on holidays.
There are other companies which do Esprit-like holidays if you decide to leave it late to book and Esprit can't take you.
I would have a chat upfront with junior's school because they may decide not to sanction you taking him out of school and then you may be fined. Some schools will accept a holiday in term time and some won't. It mucks up their absence stats apparently.
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| andy from embsay wrote: |
| Esprit have a few rooms that they give child discounts to children travelling with one parent - it's not in all their properties - i think this year there's four chalets/rooms where they'll offer discounts to one adult with one child. And dinner is (from memory) adults only, so the kids (under 13, I think) eat at "teatime" and the adults later. There's also a couple of chalets where everyone eats together - i think steve's point was that the "single parent" discounts work aren't necesarily the same as the "family dining" ones. |
Yes this was my point. For the first few years by picking low weeks of the season I was basically paying my accommodation and Hannah's ski school and childcare, these discounts gradually diminished. A god cheap ski holiday and likley to be still available to you in the first few weeks in Janruary. As she's now 11 and we were having to go in half-term there were no discount hence going elsewhere. In the list Gaza provided I have stopped in the La Rosierie option, nice chalet close to the slopes and good facilities. The Alba in Meribel is hotel standard and should not be considered if you are on a budget - but very nice. The two other places we did in Tignes and Selva are no longer listed.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| snowyowl wrote: |
a lot longer than school uniform and they were tired so didn't want to get up............
There are other companies which do Esprit-like holidays if you decide to leave it late to book and Esprit can't take you.
I would have a chat upfront with junior's school because they may decide not to sanction you taking him out of school and then you may be fined. Some schools will accept a holiday in term time and some won't. It mucks up their absence stats apparently. |
Yep....to some of that. I've already checked with school. I'm a parent, and teacher, and work for the local authority so am well of possible fines and sanctions. They only apply to secondary. Plus as I've said earlier in my thread, I always have access to a little study with iPad.
With clothing, my son is fed and dressed and out in approx half an every Sunday morning, when we leave at 8.30 am to go for his lesson at the Chill Factore. He puts everything on himself...inc thermals salopettes, teeth brushed too. He's usually at the front door before me....just looking like Horrid Henry with a bright red mop of unruly hair!
We run a military operation, bed time routine is never more than 15 mins. Including story and teeth cleaning. We should be fine!
But you're absolutely right with the earlier dinner...and socialising with other kids.
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Megamum and Heidi.....both admirable mums! What a struggle it must be carting over all that meat. I guess if we did that....eventually....we'd take bags of lentils, cartons of tofu, and I make my own veggie meat substitute mix called seitan! Asda do some amazing meaty substitutes to...all dried. So no need for refrigeration with anything. We'd only need fresh veg and fruit. We can take some hardy root veggies....and then couple of bags of pasta, squash, juice, multipacks of pain au chocolate and flapjacks..... and we'd be done! We do that for our summer trip in the VDub.....
But mega mum, what about toll charges, fuel and wear and tear on the vehicle....not to mention European breakdown recovery? All that will add to the cost. Is that included in your budget? Then snow tyres or chains? Can't drive the mountains without those? I used to drive the Crystal mini bus up and down the mountains, we also had a car...but snow tyres and chains were an essential expenditure.....
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If you can be flexible about when and where you go, and you're happy to take a package deal, book late. You can wait and see where/when the snow is and where there are cheap deals. For example, I've had a few emails today after the latest dump of snow with offers of fully catered chalet places including flights, transfers, etc at Easter for under £400 per person (and children probably a bit less). Or £200 each if you want to arrange your own transport. Considering that is in the school holidays, and in a reasonably high resort, it's a pretty good deal, although lift passes, lessons and equipment would come on top.
If you have to go in a particular week for some reason, or want to go to a particular place, or take advantage of an offer like the Espirit one above then book early as you won't be able to guarantee availability at the last minute.
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kieranm,
Esprit have places for 1 parent and 1 child, for between £800 and £1000 with child care and flights, transfers etc. first time around...we'll try that option. Can't risk stuffing it up first time! Can't book early unfortunately. Will need to be a last minute affair....we will manage with what's available to suit our needs at the time. All in all....my original and initial post queried the cost of £800 each.....I know that's far on excess of what we actually need.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| alyefs wrote: |
| Yep....to some of that. I've already checked with school. I'm a parent, and teacher, and work for the local authority so am well of possible fines and sanctions. They only apply to secondary. |
I assume that's your specific local authority's custom and practice though - the law relating to school attendance and empowering local authorities to levy fixed penalties applies to all children from 5-16 - our primary used to give permission but reminded us that it wasn't an entitlement and that they still have the sanction.
And our high school are super-puritanical about it - authorised absence will only be granted in exceptional circumstances (subtext - so don't even ask...), which is a right pain as north yorks and west yorks have different half terms in 2014 so our happy band of chalet dwellers has been split asunder.
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Tomandy from embsay,
I know that in my son's school....there is a maximum of 10 days unauthorised absence. But then if anyone...but anyone were to make a fuss about his attendance there'd be strong words from me. He's 1 day off in total, since starting foundation 1 class 3 years ago.
Secondary is different...in Cheshire anyway, not sure about Wirral....but we've a long way to go yet. Even then I'm not going to worry about. We have so few outgoings year round that it wouldn't worry me paying a bit extra by then. Plus...we won't be novice package holidayers, we'd be experience budget DIYers like some of the whizz mums on here! So the saving would be negated by time of year....so be it.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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You all be glad you don't live in Germany or Holland.
Last winter, after the week of scheduled holiday, we should come back for school on the Monday, but the teachers were striking on the next day (Tuesday). Tonnes of snow, only blue skies. The owner of the place we were staying at said we said the two extra nights, would be free (another story in and of itself), and finally my husband was there, and had only been there for the long weekend, basically. So, we were interested in extending the family time, as it meant the difference between 3 and 6 days of together time.
Got home, got a letter, got a fine, end of. Standard fare. 150 euro per child. Come up with a bonafide excuse, or get fined. Call in sick, on a day after or before a holiday week, they come to your house, if you aren't home sick, then you'd better be at the doctor or in the hospital and have a letter from said doctor for proof.
Did someone say puritanical? I'd take that over Fascism any day.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Holy heck!HeidiAmsterdam, that's outrageous! But the school was closed right? So how can they fine you if they're not planning to teach your kids? Wowie! Makes me almost appreciative of living in Slack Sally Britain!
Poor you....
Are you from the UK originally?
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| alyefs wrote: |
Tomandy from embsay,
I know that in my son's school....there is a maximum of 10 days unauthorised absence. |
I think it's 10 days of authorised absence, isn't it? Which I think is the law (up to ten days of authorised absence is allowed but it's at the head's discretion) - and is when they give permission. Unauthorised absence is the bit they can fine you for (although i suspect in practice they'd only fine you if it was persistent or blatant - ie they said no and you took them out anyway).
Our primary has some odd rules though - they won't approve (i think) less than three days at a time for example.
We stopped taking holidays in term time once the older one was about 8 or 9 though - we had a few years break from skiing (due to a bad experience with ESF) and by the time we went again the older one's at secondary school when they are very strict about it.
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You know it makes sense.
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Whoops...I meant authorised!!
What was the experience with ESF??
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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alyefs, you have probably had more advice than you can cope with already, but for what it is worth.........
Forr a first holiday I would go late in the season. Mid-march onwards. The snow and weather are usually better. For a seven year old you don't want him getting cold too fast. Snow cover at Christmas can be limited.
We did club med a couple if years ago. Can look expensive at first, but EVERYTHING is included. More fun too as you will meet others.
A budget of 1K per person would be easily doable.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I'm American. Americans are much more practical about time off, but as most Americans don't have that much holiday time, missing school for holidays isn't really an issue as such, but that's something else, isn't it?
This required attendance at school thing here, is a complete culture shock! I can get really cross about it.
I think you will read a mixed bag of reviews about ESF, the only caution I would advise, is to get into a place where they at least claim they will speak English to the kids...at least you have a fighting chance! My kids were in such classes, with other Dutch kids who didn't speak a lick of English, and those kids has the good fortune of being with my kids, as my kids could translate for them from English to Dutch, with what was told in English, which to be fair, was a fair bit less than what was told in French.
In the end, over a 3 year period and multiple ski holidays per winter, they 'graduated' the ESF with their gold stars, and now do double blacks with grace and style... and that's my experience. Perhaps it also helped that they were always together, and always had each other to commiserate with.
Was I thrilled with ESF? no. Was it good enough? yes. What I do it different? yes, if I had more money, if not, I would do it again.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| alyefs wrote: |
| What was the experience with ESF?? |
Vast classes (15-16 kids), an instructor who, even on the first day with a class of 5-6 year olds, just set off and said "follow me", poor English, and a generally uncaring attitude - daughter fell, nosebleed and knocked her (admittedly baby/loose) tooth out (all this within half an hour of starting) - "you, up, come on" - two bits of tissue paper rammed up nostrils, one hysterical child who refused to go back. Other one in ski kindergarten at about 3-4, massive group of 12-15 who spent about half an hour standing around waiting for a rope tow to slide 30 yards down the hill then stand in line to do it again. To be honest i think they were maybe a bit young (I know others ski from the age of two etc, so a personal thing) and your lad's age of 7-8 would have been better.
We then didn't take them for about five years and when we did we looked for a ski school with English-speaking instructors (a bit Little England, I know!) and small group sizes - which is why it's been fairly expensive compared to ESF but the place they've been the last couple of years has done sessions of 4 1/4 hours so I've had the chance to go off and do something. Proper teachers also know how to teach kids to ski, they have all sorts of games and stuff to play and they also know the best runs to do to teach whatever it is they're teaching.
I'm sure there are good ESF schools/instructors but my two were almost put off for life by one morning of Gallic insouciance so I didn't want to take the risk. I think you can be confident that Esprit will get it right though - family skiing is what they do.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| alyefs wrote: |
| Holy heck!HeidiAmsterdam, that's outrageous! But the school was closed right? So how can they fine you if they're not planning to teach your kids? Wowie! Makes me almost appreciative of living in Slack Sally Britain! |
Think you misread. The schools were closed due to a strike on the Tuesday so heidi decided to stay skiing and therefore the kids didn't go to school on the Monday when it was open, hence the fine.
If it had been me I'd say we'd been snowed in a couldn't get home. 
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alyefs, if you book the lessons through Esprit although they use ESF in France they aren't normal ESF lessons they are exclusive to Esprit customers so the lesson sizes are smaller and are with the other children from your chalet. When we went in Dec 2010 Ellie was in the spritelets class and was one of three, the sprites classes (for 5yrs +) were bigger but still about 6 to a class as far as i could gather.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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My resort has very few English visitors so group lessons (max class size 10 in the ESI I use) will be almost entirely French, however fluent the instructor's English. However, for a little group of kids it is well worth looking at private lessons. I have arranged 5 x 2 hour private lessons for the Easter week, for four beginners aged 7 - 9. I hand-picked the instructor (who I have used before) and the cost for each child will be €95 for the 5 days; only a little more than group lessons and a small fraction of the cost of a British ski school (not that we've got any).
This is with the ESI because I always use them and know the people, but the ESF have similar prices - and I would use them if the other school didn't exist.
I have booked two beginner sisters, 15 and 21 years old, into ESI group lessons at Easter as it was the most cost-effective option for them and their Dad couldn't afford privates. But they will be together and I think it's rather good for older teenagers to mix a bit.
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alyefs, Forgot to add that one of the most important things is to try and avoid the relevant European school holidays when deciding when to go. Crowded slopes and lift queues are never fun. If I were you, I would slope off a week early at the end of the Lent term. i.e 3rd week of March. Italy may be better value than France and (to my surprise) they classify that week as low season. Alternatively send Efan to a private school and he'll break up in time for that week anyway! Might blow the budget tho'!
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| stevew wrote: |
alyefs, ; Esprit do do some whole group meal chalets but not as I recall them in the ones that have rooms for single parents.
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It's been many a year since we needed Esprit (kids now 16 & 13) but the one time we used them they were fab & the kids could choose whether to eat with us or not - but that was in one of the hotels rather than chalets.
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| pam w wrote: |
...only a little more than group lessons and a small fraction of the cost of a British ski school (not that we've got any).
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Which is the huge benefit of having someone "on the ground" who knows the instructors - for the kids' one week a year I'd rather spend a bit more and reduce the risk of them having a crap time (and maybe being put off for life - as almost happened with our youngest).
I guess Esprit effectively do that for you - they'll have influence with the ski schools and will make it clear what they need and expect. I wish we'd gone with them years ago!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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alyefs, companies such as http://www.skiweekends.com/ do coach travel which can keep the costs down. Another thing is to pick much smaller resorts like La Rosiere rather than La Plange, then passes and ski hire is much cheaper. Although some resorts do have free lifts for beginners.
Some chalet company do their own in-house ski-hire or 2for1, such as Ski Olympic. We paid about 44€/wk in SO La Ros for red skis whereas 97€/wk in Les Arcs.
Another budgeting tip with chalet holidays is to buy your ski pass on the transfer bus, then it comes out of the following months pay... They'll always offer it to people that might not have pre-booked/paid.
Then there is the Balkans... Bulgaria is always cheaper but doesn't get much of a good review on here, but our group had some great holidays there when we were starting out... and we paid £300-500 all-in with kit, lessons, HB, but this was 10 years ago.
Now we wait to see where the snows falling and hope for last minute deals.
HTH 
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Which is the huge benefit of having someone "on the ground" who knows the instructors
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well yes, it is, but I'd be surprised if anyone booking a private instructor from either of the ski schools, for an english speaking group of 4, would have any problems with any of the instructors. I think private lesson clients get a bit more attention. There are so many snowheads that know so many ski schools that a request for instructor recommendations would often get a useful response,
I'm just making the point really that you don't need to spend a fortune to get private lessons for a small group - it compares very favourably with group lessons.
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FAQ
