 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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quirkybird, welcome to snowHeads 
Private lesson on day 2. Where are you off to?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Welcome to SHs. You have to go down the black runs day 1, and on day 2 etc etc. This may not be easy problem to fix if you don't push ypurself out of your comfort zone. The more repetition and experience going down black runs the better, and don't worry about going down in style, just whatever way you can and let style follow. Another option is to do off-piste classes, anything pisted will seem pis easy after
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I suggested day 2 for a lesson, so quirkybird could warm up and get used to skis again day 1 and make the most of an instructor the next day.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You have to go down the black runs day 1, and on day 2 etc etc
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I completely disagree. Absolutely no purpose is served by snowploughing down black runs and you won't learn how to turn properly if you're out of your comfort zone. And spending 5 days of your precious holiday being scared sucks.
How many lessons have you had recently? Can you do really good round rhythmic parallel turns at speed down a blue slope? A red slope? Forget black runs altogether until you can - there's nothing magic about black slopes. Instructors will always work with you on a slope you're comfortable with.
If you have (or your companions have) an absolute determination that you must ski black slopes for goodness' sake learn to sideslip, not snowplough. You are much less likely to end up being airlifted off the slope. If you can't sideslip under control down steep bits, make that the focus of your first lesson. Then you can feel secure that you have a "get out of jail" tool in your toolbox.
With a good sideslip you can go straight down, or diagonally forward or back, which enables you to find a more comfortable-looking piece of slope to turn on.[/code]
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I'm with Pam. Lots and lots of blues and reds, build confidence and milage, and don't ski with people who scare you. It's supposed to be fun.
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Build confidence slowly, practice skills like hockey stops which will give you better capacity for emergency stops. Learn to side slip really well, both sides, forwards and backwards. Later learn to turn in a side slip, know as a pivot slip.
Confidence built on skills.
Description of terms here
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=31885
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quirkybird, welcome to snowHeads!  Another vote for side slipping skills: knowing one can rely on those really does eliminate fear on a steep slope.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Get a private lesson. As an alternative I was in the same boat as you about 4 years ago. I overcame my fear by finding a nice wide blue run with a fairly steep bit. I would stop just above the steep part, wait until it was clear, then go quicker than I'm used to, and then stop with my skis together. It made me aware that I could stop pretty quickly if I needed to. This may or may not work
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then go quicker than I'm used to, and then stop with my skis together.
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I think that's a chap's way of doing it, Ricklovesthepowder. Brave. My son once stood his girlfriend, beginner snowboarder, at the top of a "steeper bit of blue" with a nice flat run out and told her just to straightline it. She point blank refused. I think girls often do it differently.  She wasn't a wimp - later broke her back on a very icy and busy piste in St Anton and was helicoptered off the slope and in a full body plaster for months. She's a good boarder now, but had to learn her way, which meant 100% control. I am an experienced and moderately competent skier and I would rarely bother with a difficult black slope if there was a nice red alternative. I have excellent side-slipping skills but would prefer to do nice flowing turns, thanks very much.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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quirkybird, build confidence by building control. Lessons, practise on shallow slopes and gradually move up to steeper without noticing.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
How many lessons have you had recently? Can you do really good round rhythmic parallel turns at speed down a blue slope? A red slope? Forget black runs altogether until you can - there's nothing magic about black slopes. Instructors will always work with you on a slope you're comfortable with.
If you have (or your companions have) an absolute determination that you must ski black slopes for goodness' sake learn to sideslip, not snowplough. You are much less likely to end up being airlifted off the slope. If you can't sideslip under control down steep bits, make that the focus of your first lesson. Then you can feel secure that you have a "get out of jail" tool in your toolbox.
With a good sideslip you can go straight down, or diagonally forward or back, which enables you to find a more comfortable-looking piece of slope to turn on. |
I went skiing with my school until I left, so I haven't had less recently- but most of my trips have been full weeks of ski school. And I should have made it clear, I don't snow plow because it's all I can do- it's my nerves. Like going down a hill with your hands on your bike breaks! I can do round parallels on anything, once I ease myself into it.
I can slide slip, yes. But as I said, when my news come over me I don't think straight. It's so annoying and restrictive 
I think the general consensus is to book in for some lessons. We have a beginner coming with us so I'll have to cras-...support them through theirs!
Thanks all! x
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quirkybird, you don't say where you are going, but maybe going into the ski school office and explaining your problem of nerves may actually get you a day working with an instructor who can maybe help you build up your confidence.
If you have all the skills but not the confidence, a private lesson is not going to help much unless it addresses the root problem - fear. For that you need a very special kind of instructor. If you don't find one this time around, there is an instructor in Les Deux Alpes, Charlotte Swift aka Easiski who runs course specifically aimed at this fear problem. I'm certain one of the others on here has a link to her web site that they can put up for you to look at. Going back to "support" a beginner may not help you very much, even if it helps the beginner!
I've read many threads on here where people with similar problems have managed to utilise the energy that fear drains from them to help them ski more freely after course(s) with her. I also skied with someone last week who was very much as you describe yourself last season. She has had another course with Charlotte earlier this season and was skiing with us everywhere on reds, in slush, over bumps and down a rather steep and icy Ladies Downhill run last week and really having a whale of a time. Her grin at the end of the week was worth every penny she paid I reckon.
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You know it makes sense.
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another vote for Charlotte Swift - easiski.com
It sounds as though you are a competent skier. Why not just give black runs a miss? You absolutely don't have to do them, though Charlotte could certainly help you to overcome your fears, which is always well worth doing, so you don't worry about finding yourself on something hard.
And, by the way, if you can snowplough down a black run you have my utmost respect.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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A helmet, body armour and whiskey.
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Poster: A snowHead
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+1 for easiski. I went to her when I had lost confidence on really steep slopes. She sorted me out.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I am going to St Jean D'Aulps and staying there, but will probably drive to Morzine for 3 out of the 6 days.
Thank you everyone xxx
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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1. Black runs are NOT compulsory! I very seldom ski a black as I just happen to have a lot more fun skiing something a bit easier. I can ski reds faster, smoother, better and a lot happier. It may be there is peer/family pressure to ski them, but otherwise just ski what you want.
2. Make sure you are seriously fit. Nothing ruins confidence and ability faster than lacking the fitness to ski a particular slope. You always play catch up Charlie and end up knackered.
3. Get some private lessons (or group).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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quirkybird, I have an instructor friend who works in Les Gets but lives in St J A. I will send him a message for recommendations but may not hear back in time.....
That's a good area to get your confidence back and should be quiet. BASS are good in Morzine if you wanted a lesson there.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| marmotte16 wrote: |
quirkybird, no gatecrashing beginner lessons.....it sounds like you already have the skills  . |
This. Instruction is the way forward, but, if you have specific needs, group lessons are not the way to go. Far better to have a day of private instruction than a week of group sessions.
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Fear is a common and natural reaction. In no other activity do we become so 'disconnected' with the ground. Add that to steep ground and high speeds without a metal cage and you can easily understand why.
This book might help:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Inner-Skiing-Gallwey/dp/0679778276?tag=amz07b-21
Inner Skiing by Tim Gallwey concentrates not on technique but on the mind of the skier.
IMV, throwing yourself at a black run is a recipe for disaster. As others have said, an instructor will get you settled quickly. They will know just the right places where you can push the envelope while still feeling safe with plenty of bail-out options. Several times I've looked at my instructor as if to say "I can't do that" only to get a nod in reply. Then, when I tried, it did work after all.
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Far better to have a day of private instruction than a week of group sessions.
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A day is a bit much. A few shorter lessons with time to practice in between might be better. I find 2 hours 1:1 about right.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| altis wrote: |
| In no other activity do we become so 'disconnected' with the ground. |
As a Flying Instructor, I'm afraid I have to disagree with this
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As a "bloke" I gained my confidence by breaking down different aspects of my skiing and focusing on them in turn. ie: Pole Planting, improving the turn on my "weak" leg, true carving turns on blue, controlling a side-slide forwards/backwards/downwards, doing a complete "skaters" stop from speed. Once I could do these on a blue I would try them on a Red. The key thing (for me) was to push myself a little bit harder each time. I watch other skiers around the mountain (and the pros on tv) and am very self critical about whether I am doing it "right" or not.
My wife, on the other hand, is a perfectionist (in work and life) and gains her confidence by starting on a Green and getting EVERYTHING perfect before feeling confident on a Blue. Because she wants perfection before progressing, she has only managed 2 or 3 reds in over 10 years of 1-week skiing holidays. She starts the week on a blue but has to revert back to green at the first wobble. In fact, in recent years she has completely lost her nerve on some of the tougher Blues. After this year's debacle (complete wobbly and walking down a long blue), she is heading back into Ski school and will be using the experts to help her progress.
Finally, my 13yo daughter has learnt to be "scared" from her mother. However, whenever I can take her alone on a quiet slope she will listen and progress quickly. The key thing for HER was having a toolkit of "get out of jail" skills - as mentioned before. So teaching her side-slipping (which kiddie-skischool didn't bother with), pole-plants, and sudden-stops has shown her that she can start on ANY slope and stop when it suits her... rather than stopping when she reaches the bottom in a heap!
I guess what I'm trying to say is... gaining confidence quicker in the week all comes down to your own personality type. Try and remember what it has been that has provided the increase in confidence in previous holidays. If you only get confident after 20 hours on a Blue slope... then get the first lift up and the last run down for the first couple of days of your holiday so that your confidence is in place by the third day. If, however, you get confidence after 4 days regardless of what you do during them... then there aren't going to be any shortcuts.
It is always possible that you've reached the limits of your own self-teaching. Maybe Ski-school is worth returning to. There are groups for all levels... it isn't just for beginniners.
And finally... ignoring EVERYTHING that I've just posted... for me, one of the most rewarding parts of a skiiing holiday is cruising down a really gentle blue run looking at the scenary and the peace and quiet. Not working, just living.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Just like to add to the recommendations of Charlotte Swift, or any instructor who knows how to work with cautious people (not many understand fear unfortunately):
She has been running week long clinics with the purpose of gaining confidence for the last few years: http://www.easiski.com/C2C.html
If you don't find the right instructor where you are going to next week, consider the C2C next time!
jamescollings From the sounds of it, your wife (and maybe daughter) could benefit from Charlotte as well
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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quirkybird, I would say don't do a black run until you think you are ready to do it within your confidence zone (with maybe a slight nudge at the edge of your envelope). I've got about 10 weeks skiing under my belt garnered under a shorter timespan than you and although I could do one (and actually have done very short black sections) I don't choose to ski anything that I don't have to which is outside what I feel confident on - at the moment that includes black runs other than those VERY short sections with a visible run-out with excellent snow on them.
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Ronald, I think so too
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You know it makes sense.
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andyrew, you got me there!
Okay, no other normal activity then.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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However, once I get into it- the trip is nearly up and I'm gutted that I didn't make the most of my time
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It seems to me that OP says that she's much braver with the benefit of some familiarity with the snow. quirkybird is it at all possible to find a way to ski for a fortnight next season, or even 10 days? Perhaps a week with your family followed by some time with a mate? It may be that being comfortable in your surroundings is all you really need.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Megamum wrote: |
| quirkybird, I would say don't do a black run until you think you are ready to do it within your confidence zone (with maybe a slight nudge at the edge of your envelope). |
| Megamum wrote: |
| I've got about 10 weeks skiing under my belt garnered under a shorter timespan than you and although I could do one (and actually have done very short black sections) I don't choose to ski anything that I don't have to which is outside what I feel confident on |
Maybe
| Megamum wrote: |
| a slight nudge at the edge of your envelope. |
to get your confidence moving?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Megamum wrote: |
| a slight nudge at the edge of your envelope. |
Is that a euphemism?
I guess whatever takes your mind off the fear is a good thing
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I am also a nervous skiier on the steeper red and black runs - this is down to my fear of heights.
I am better when the conditions are good but when it is icy I freak out big style! A few years ago it got so bad I actually cried down a blue run that I had done numerous times before.
Since then I have periodically had private lessons when I have started to feel nervous. They have been amazing. In Les Arcs I had one 3 hours lesson that was so good I booked another one. The instructor could see that I had the technique so did not have to concentrate on that. Instead we went into mogule fields, off piste and even into the park. My twisted logic was that if she thought I could do it then I must be able to (as it would not look good for her if I broke myself!) and I followed like a sheep. Knowing I could do all that meant that the pistes suddenly became less terrifying.
I have just come back from Tignes and given the conditions were good I did not book onto any lessons but I also only did one black run (which my husband did first and told me it was not really a black so I would be fine - he was right!). There is no need to do blacks if they freak you out. It is a holiday - you are there to enjoy yourself 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Ahhh, The Fear. I have this too (I'm a girl) and I'm just learning to live with it and work alongside it. Tried manning up, didn't like it. The Fear is a very good safety device, so embrace it!
Most importantly, remember you're there to enjoy yourself! Ski what you want to, at the speed you want to, doing what you want to. Maybe spend some time remembering why you enjoy going skiing? Have a think about it before you go too, things to focus on and enjoy whilst you're out there. That might help distract you from The Fear when you're actually on the slope.
Don't worry about the black runs. They're the skiers equivalent of over-compensating with a Ferrari or sportscar or something Have you tried going off on your own in the mornings, skiing blues and reds that you're happy with and *enjoy* cruising on, playing around with what you can and can't do and then rejoining the group at lunch?
Hope you enjoy your trip, regardless of The Fear
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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33 posts and no-one has mentioned rule 5?
the rules are there for a reason ladies.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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quirkybird, I just took a friend skiing who had similar fears. We sought out wide and gentle blues and spent all the time on them. She was much happier with runs she knew had no hidden surprises. We also worked on making a longer skiddier turn which she felt gave her more control and also got her down steeper pitches with less aggressive Z type turns.
I am guessing you are going in a group? Sometimes peer pressure is really bad, ie come down this black, you'll be fine, or trying to keep up with faster skiers.
IMHO you need to stick to the gentler slopes and get your confidence up. Is there anyone in the group of a similar standard you can ski with and let the speed demons go off and do their thing?
Add in some private half day lessons if you can afford it, or have you considered some lessons indoors before you go away? Do you live near an indoor ski dome?
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quirkybird, agree withkitenski,
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Chasseur, I don't see the problem with what I put. When I skied my short blacks they were under excellent snow, and I had a tot or three inside and took them on just to be able to say that I'd skied them. At the moment I am not confident to ski anything with the dark markers on and will actively avoid them. I am probably capable of skiing them, but confidence gets you down things that are at edge of what you think you might be able to ski - no confidence = no go. With confidence I may be tempted to have a bash at something outside my technical ability without confidence such runs are a non-starter.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Megamum, there's no problem with what you put. I was merely pointing out that your advice to the OP about "a slight nudge at the edge of your envelope", as you put it, could equally be applied to your own lack of confidence when faced with runs with dark markers - as you mention again, above.
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that's when you get belted in the shins with a great lump of wood isn't it? Not sure how good that would be for helping his confidence ... or his skiing for that matter. I can see it working as aversion therapy but it seems a little harsh.
Stay with what you feel OK on until you get bored then move up. Repeat until you start to feel uncomfortable.
Otherwise, Rule 5.
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FAQ
