As above really, I'm laughably bad at these (so bad they really don't happen).
Can anyone suggest any tips or exercises? I'm sure they're easier on steeper slopes but I'm also sure I don't want to start trying them on anything other than a blue....
I've got some private lessons booked over the two weeks but will also have quite a bit of time skiing by myself so if I can pootle up and down a blue run and get the basics sorted it leaves me more time for fun stuff with the instructor.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
MeMyselfandI, jump turns on a blue run are hard work. Easier to practice on something steeper, although not so steep that you need to get it right. Learn to jump off the outside/uphill ski.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Blue runs won't work and there is very little reason to get a full on jump turn going until things get properly steep and even then you can typically be lazy unless its super narrow. Unweighting and pivoting in the minimum of vertical distance would be the best you could do and should be something any competent skier can manage anyway. The goal in the extreme is to move the body vertically down without building up too much momentum and stop any that does build up in the turn with your skis. IIRC Rob and friends do some interesting looking tow based drills around that sort of thing for snowdomes. If you can just get on some nice 'blackish' offpiste and give it a go.
MeMyselfandI, Make sure you are hopping the skis into the air not retracting the legs, hopping into the next turn is a good practice for getting the hang of it. To get the feel of jump turns without snow, find narrow stair case with hand rails grasp both stand sideways and jump off the uphill step turning in mid air to land in reverse. No responsibility for accidents is accepted for trying this suggestio
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
rob@rar, Thanks for that, actually jumping off the uphill ski is really useful, I think I've tried to do it too much off the downhill ski in the past. Mine currently look more like very bad javelin turns, which is nice in a way but not what I'm after! There are a couple of nice reds with steepish bits in the LG bowl that would work actually, perhaps not when it's too icy though. We're actually moving to the UK in a few months (booooo!) and will be close to Hemel so I'm sure you'll get to meet me on a course sometime this year, (yay!), I'm going to have to find something to entertain me through the English 'summer'.
meh, my short turns are pretty good and I have the whole 'virtual bump' thing going on, I'd like to know I *can* do them if I need to, would you suggest something better? My understanding is they're good for balance as well as a useful skill which is the main attraction in nailing them.
Cynic, I do quite a bit of dry land jump based training anyway but will give that a go, wearing non-slip shoes....
Thanks for the suggestions all.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Sat 16-03-13 9:25; edited 1 time in total
rob@rar, Thanks for that, actually jumping off the uphill ski is really useful, I think I've tried to do it too much off the downhill ski in the past. Mine currently look more like very bad javelin turns, which is nice in a way but not what I'm after!
If you jump off the downhill ski you will stem the uphill ski (so it looks like a javelin shape), twisting your hips to the outside of the turn. You won't start steering with the outside ski until late in the turn as it will take a bit more time to settle and balance on it.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I find light skis help. These boys seem to have cracked it!
After all it is free
After all it is free
There was a thread on here about a year ago which featured some grizzled French geezer hopping down some steep slope (it wasn't a blue...), explaining all the while (in French) was he was doing (think it may have been done in Chamonix). Might be worth a look if you or ano can find that.
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rob@rar, makes perfect sense, thanks.
jbob, yes, safe to say they've cracked it (good song to sing in my head whilst doing them as well!). I don't think I'll try them on that kind of angle to start with though, I don't have enough pairs of pants. Interesting seeing the pole plant from that angle, thanks for the vid.
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DoubleBombardino wrote:
There was a thread on here about a year ago which featured some grizzled French geezer hopping down some steep slope (it wasn't a blue...), explaining all the while (in French) was he was doing (think it may have been done in Chamonix).
There's some good Warren Smith video's on jump turns - check his site.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
So after the video above (oh how I wish my French was better) is it better to do a double or a single pole plant?
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Double but don't forget to release the uphill one or things could get messy!
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Find somewhere off the edge of the piste which has a short steep pitch but with an easy / safe run out.
Keep your skis parallel with the snow - don't just pick up the tails.
Focus on landing accurately, flat on your skis when they are pointing directly down the fall line. Then pile on the rotation and settle, settle, settle into the end of the turn. Flex those ankles and absorb the energy. Lock out 'cos it's steep and the skis will shoot off across the hill - like one of those turns to the right towards the end of the video above.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Double pole, land softly.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
The French guy is using jump turns because of the snow condition? I think fat ski crud killers have lessened the necessity for jumping in mixed snow.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
The "French Guy" was Remy Lecluse. R.I.P.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
So, double pole plant (but uphill plant is quite a light one?) and steepish off piste with a run off is better than on piste and if it's too difficult, buy lighter skis.
Have I got it right?
Cynic, I'm sure they have but then they're also pretty good for getting a strong pole plant and working on balance so I figure they're a good 'just in case' skill to sort out.
ETA - and thank you to all who have replied, sorry I missed that out, how rude of me.
I had great lesson with Jimmy from ski new gen last week which focussed on jump turns... Best lesson I've ever had and I'd recommend a lesson on this. It's not as simple as learning one technique as you need to apply different techniques dependent on snow condition, pitch angle etc.
Great skills to have though and reminded me that my core strength is no where near where it should be for attacking any sustained pitch requiring jump turns!
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
MeMyselfandI, single pole plant, send your upper body carefully into the turn, hop off the uphill foot, steer the legs through under the upper body (still rotating slowly) and land on the same foot. Steer & smear off the speed. Start off on the piste first (black run pitch is good) and then take it off into the rough stuff.
shoogly, I feel your pain on the core thing, at the moment in a metaphorical way but I'm sure this time next week it will be literal as well.
I think I'm going to take myself off to some steepish reds and practice the basics then get my instructor to tell me I'm doing it all wrong.
Does anyone feel like talking me through the whys and why-nots of double vs single plants?
offpisteskiing, just had a look at your blog and what you were doing on the 4th. Mentals.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I would defer to offpisteskiing, especially when trying to learn it, fwiw I'm crap at them.
After all it is free
After all it is free
No offence jbob, but I was going to
I'm just interested as to why there doesn't seem to be a consensus on the single/double thing.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
MeMyselfandI, I tend to cheat, I do the double pole thing, but when it a 5h1t or bust thing a little stem seems to sneak in, I think the double pole v single is all about not catching your skis on the up hill pole on the way around if you don't remove it quick enought. Maybe I need an hour with offpisteskiing next time he's in Chamonix.
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
jbob, however I would also defer to Remi, who could do a steep turn or two when it mattered...!
MeMyselfandI, the double pole plant very often blocks people from actually committing their body to the turn - feet get jumped round but the body is left playing catch up...
jbob, currently in Cham but flat out all week
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Single pole plant for steeper slope angle, double for slightly less slope angle. On the steeper slope a double plant, the top poke will get in the way.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
offpisteskiing wrote:
jbob, currently in Cham but flat out all week
never mind, I'll just have to put up with my jump christy, for a bit longer
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Note that you don't have to try and jump the whole turn; you can land with skis still pointing down the hill and then finish the turn. It makes the whole thing a lot easier.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
The Doug Coombs "folding pole plant" is a great technique for steep snow.
Normally skiers are told to punch their hand forward during a pole plant. This commits the skier to a firm pole plant - and in most scenarios it is a good technique. However on steep 40+ degree terrain this leaves the pole uphill in an awkward position as you turn around it (the end result being shoulders turn back up the hill)
Folding / collapsing the pole back towards the waist at end of the turn is a much nicer technique, really helps keeps the upper-body in a much better position.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Haggis_Trap,
You mean like this where Doug (RIP) bends his wrist to bringing the pole under his forearm ?
^ good link...
watch how the pole plant is "folded" back neatly towards the body (really obvious at 37 secs) towards end of the turn. helps keeps the shoulders pointing the down the fall-line.
a simple technique that really helped my steep skiing.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
The short swing exercise is a good way to start to learn jump turns imv because as you can see it can be practised on relatively shallow slopes, so on any UK slopes you can practise this, the main difference is you are jumping from 45 degrees to just beyond the falline, check to 45 degrees and repeat, or jump 45 to 45, as you get used to it and take it steeper its more start 90 ish, jump just beyond the falline or further if poss then check to 90 and repeat.
Thanks for all the tips. I'm still utterly terrible at jump turns
(RtSR, the legs can do the business apart from the stupid right knee, it's the co-ordination and the brain that's the issue)
On the plus side I managed to pass MrI quite a few times, the first time we got to the bottom and he said 'I saw this person pass me and thought 'wow, they're really good', then I realised it was you *dumfounded expression*'.
Skiing over for this year, now got to figure out how to get a season next year with two small children, one of whom is due to start school this year, and a husband who works in London....
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
Happy days!