 Poster: A snowHead
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Help!
Taking up snowboarding again has kicked off early osteoarthritis in my left knee. I had this diagnosis after getting this annoying pain in my knee, and doing 4 weeks of physio which made it feel better until I was back on the slope again. Back to a specialist for an MRI, and voila. Should have known really considering it's on both sides of my family and I've got hypermobility in some joints, but there you go.
My consultant nearly fell off his chair when I asked whether I'd be able to continue to do a couple of hours every fortnight or so on an indoor slope, so I took that as a "best not". What he gave me no time to explain is that I have no hankering to try freestyle, I just like the involvement with the snow, the relative low speed (see: The Fear) and the fact I can see some very beautiful places whilst doing it (not including the inside of Hemel and MK fridges).
I'm looking for some real life experience from folk who actually live with and continue to enjoy the snow with arthritic knees. Do you have coping mechanisms? How is it developing for you? Have you managed to slow down the progression? How often do you ski or snowboard?
I know it's all case-by-case, but I don't know anyone else with this and I'm the only snow junkie in my family so hearing your stories is a good start.
Thanks for reading 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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If you were skiing rather than boarding I'd suggest checking out the "ski mojo" via a search on here and/or google. It is supposed to be a real knee saver for skiers.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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call me dave, I ski on an arthritic knee (I'm 53). Doctor said she knew it would be futile to tell me not to ski...and that I will need a new knee some day but not yet. she sent me to a Physio to get help for me to preserve the joint.
I ski for a week at a time for 6-8 hours a day with a teenage family (hard and fast), twice to 3 times a year, but do not ski in a fridge or dry slope - why would you? I do the physio's exercises all year round to strengthen my quads, and I wear a knee brace on the dodgy one for security when skiing so I can't twist it as I have injured it in the past too. It's mostly fine during and after skiing. Sitting down on the way home in the car for 9 hours is the killer.
I am small built and not overweight and an experienced skier - I avoid deep thick snow as unnecessarily risky for my knees!
However I played badminton with my son for an hour the other week and am still suffering for that. There's a lesson in there somewhere. I knew I had given up badminton for a good reason...
I would say definitely go and see a good sports physio, get some ultrasound treatment, consider getting a brace (try firstaid4sport.co.uk) and take some ibuprofen gel with you.
I'm not really a boarder but I think that the knee action is probably less pronounced for a boarder so that actually might be better for the knees than skiing. However when I did learn to board I always fell on the same bit of my knee (forwards) which in the end did hurt, so very thick knee pads would be a priority.
Where in the world are you? Someone on here probably knows a physio!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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call me dave, I've met a lot of people over the years who moved to snowboarding after blowing out knees skiing, including those who had early onset arthritis, so I wouldn't call closing time on your snow activities just yet. You might be able to find out more info over on the Knee Guru website ( http://www.kneeguru.co.uk ) maybe get some ideas about excercise programmes you can try etc.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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snowyowl, great post, thanks! I already had physio when they originally thought it was a ligament strain or perhaps meniscus. Now I've got a proper diagnosis from the specialist I'm referred back to a different clinic which is thankfully covered by my health insurance. I'm not really invested in ultrasound or laser for ongoing use as a result of the effect (or lack of) they had when I first tried getting it treated.
It's funny you mention the sitting down being a killer - that's when it gives me the most grief too, though I can only board for one full day at a time at present - come the second day it feels very weak compared to my other knee. It's not a muscular weakness, it's that weird kind of... structural weakness almost! In terms of muscles I'm going to up my yoga and perhaps take up pilates too. The specialist wants to correct my stance (like a duck, and quite flat feet) to try and reduce the chance of injury that way as well. I try and only use gondolas wherever possible in resort because chairs require a bit of an uncontrolled landing for an inexperienced boarder, and basically anything where you need to unbuckle your back foot to get anywhere. Likewise thanks to the nerdy ski lift websites I can establish which chairs have good flat landings that won't mean I flap and fall over, or end up putting my dodgy knee in any risky situations. It was getting off a poma in MK that kicked all this off in the first place...
I'm only 30 so I'm a bit stroppy about the whole thing. Boarding is the only type of exercise that I've found that involves the entire body and isn't incredibly boring, and going to Hemel for an evening once every few weeks was becoming a great way of chilling out before the week started. Hence I'm interesting in peoples individual experiences - what people do to manage it so they can keep on with normal life.
Richard_Sideways, you're right about knee guru, that site is great for working out what's actually happening inside the joint and what the consequences are. Likewise about loads of boarders ending up doing it cause they've done their knees in skiing - maybe that explains why boarding is becoming increasingly uncool. Lots of vintage boarders moaning about their arthritis and ACL injuries over a beer instead of the epic pow and sick kickers in the park 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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call me dave, You could try bunging yourself full of corticosteroids, pain killers, fat skis and rule 5 like the rest of us.
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call me dave, Very much a similar story, of arthritus. Mine is combined with several knee ops, physio etc.... I was told 'that would not be wise to ski'. Coping measures include pain killers and anti inflammatory pills, voltarol, knee supports.
Even the least bit of exercise, even light walking can set it off. So I just 'manage' it. It will not get any better, but I take it easy, and use the afore mentioned tablets when I have to. Also now trying to loose weight, 1/2 stone lighter so far (hopefully will also help). I don't thrash around the slopes any more and have a few more rest stops during the day.
As I ski (not snowboard) one major change that has allowed me to continue skiing, was the use of a Ski Mojo.
Highly recommended! What a difference it makes. There is a bit of a faff to get it on and close fit sallopettes are now out of the question, as it has to fit underneath them. Without it though, a 1/2 day hard skiing can put me out of action for days.
So, i recommend, avoid fridges (unless they are the food and beer type) , ditch the board, take up skiing, and use a Ski Mojo.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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call me dave,
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I guess girls apply rule 5 differently to blokes
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Girls do most things differently....whatever rule 5 might be! (Call me stupid if you like..it must be a man thing!)
I have just heard about an anti-arthritis diet plan which an old man I know (80+) swears works - avoid all plants from the deadly nightshade family. Sounds obvious, eh? But this means Potatoes, Peppers (green, red etc) Tomatoes and Chillies. For me that would be hell and I'll live with the Arthritis, but it might be worth a try if you are on a diet anyway?
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snowyowl, the link between the Solanine foods (specifically the alkaloids) and arthritis is shakey at best, and weaponised baloney at worst... link was proposed on the basis of some seriously suspect research by a US doctor specialising in holistic medicine which hasn't been repeatable in patients, and only really plausable in a chemistry set at amounts which would having you worrying less about your joint pain and more about the style of box you'll be occupying very very soon. The doctor in question suggests that you have to be 'sensitive' to alkaloids therefore standard blind testing doesn't count, so please continue to buy his stuff from his website.
Draw your own conclusions...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Special diets are difficult though aren't they? I mean, we're all different by nature of our own intolerances and allergies and I can believe that in some people something might help more than others but really it's a voyage of trial and error for everyone. End result, if you find something that you believe stops things hurting then by all means carry on consuming it. But the only thing you can teach others from that is that it's worth experimenting with excluding particular types of groups in their own diet to see what agrees with them and what doesn't.
In terms of vaguely unscientific stuff, the specialist I have suggested trying glucosamine, but I've not really seen any studies that say conclusively that it helps so I might not bother with that. I have enough expensive vices anyway
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Richard_Sideways, call me dave, Someone I know puts WD40 on his bad knee. Yes, really! Apparently its main ingredient is fish oil. Don't knock it till you've tried it!
I think my old man with the diet has rheumatoid arthritis so maybe that's more sensitive to dietary triggers?
For myself I had terribly difficult, sensitive skin until a beautician who is trained in medical applications suggested that I avoid citrus for a few weeks which is apparently a known irritant...I had always had a glass of OJ or grapefruit for breakfast, all my life really. It was a revelation! After 2 weeks there was a real improvement. After 4 it was almost good! So now I am cautious with citrus (OJ ruins the champagne anyway!) and I do believe that was causing or at least exacerbating the problem.
Glucosamine didn't help me. Cod liver oil upset my system (!) and had no effect. I might just try the WD40 though....(smelly..)
But any of this stuff could help.
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The WD-40 website lists over 2000 uses for it... thats not one.
I REALLY hope that this person you know is only experiencing a placebo effect as the alternative is horrifying. 
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You know it makes sense.
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Richard_Sideways, I imagine it's the gentle massage which is soothing...but do we need a scientific experiment here or IYO is WD40 dangerous in some way?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I think my old man with the diet has rheumatoid arthritis so maybe that's more sensitive to dietary triggers?
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yes it is. My sister in law has had RA for very many years. She has absolutely to avoid tomatoes - one of her favourite foods.
call me dave, there was a thread a while back in which someone suggested that a Ski Mojo might help a snowboarder. http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=68362
This article mentions snowboarders using it too. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/snowandski/6596417/Skiing-shock-absorbers-tested-Brace-yourself-for-the-snow.html
The other absolutely crucial thing is to keep your weight as low as feasible - bottom end of the "normal" BMI range.
One of my friends with arthritis in her hips finds that the drier air in the mountains (generally - not today, it's as soggy as a soggy thing) helps quite a bit too. She skis little and often - very rarely more than 3 - 4 hours.
snowyowl, did cutting out citrus help the arthritis as well as your sensitive skin?
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Poster: A snowHead
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pam w, The skin issue was clearing up before I knew I had arthritis so i couldn't say....and I don't care to go back to having it to find out!
Certainly cold, damp conditions don't help!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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pam w, your friend sounds like she does exactly what I'm hoping to do - little and often. A week on the same mountain would send me crazy! Aside from the fact it broke me in the first place, snowboarding seems like a really good way to keep strength in the muscles without really taxing the joint, and I hate boring static exercise and pushbikes.
The weight thing is a problem, I generally eat about 1000 calories a day, have a reasonable but not fabulous diet and my BMI is slightly overweight. Slow metabolism and a brick outhouse body shape (broad shoulders, ribcage and wide hip bones, fml) means I'm really going to struggle with that.
I'm definitely going to look into the Ski Mojo thingy in the longer term - hadn't seen anywhere saying that it was a good thing for boarders too so I'll take a look. Thanks
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I generally eat about 1000 calories a day
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That's starvation! Get that metabolism speeded up somehow! Maybe you are not actually eating enough to lose weight?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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A week on the same mountain would send me crazy!
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my friend does little and often on the same mountain.
1000 calories a day is, as snowyowl says, very little. Are you very small? Maybe time to think about a change of regime? Why do you hate pushbikes? Good exercise, low impact. You need to develop some exercise routines other than snowboarding, given that you can't do that much of the time.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| snowyowl wrote: |
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I generally eat about 1000 calories a day
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That's starvation! Get that metabolism speeded up somehow! Maybe you are not actually eating enough to lose weight? |
Particularly if a bloke (guessing from name). I wonder if mis-measuring calories somehow?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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OliviaDB, pam w, If I could keep my calorie intake that low I'd be very skinny. Not that I want to be! Women are supposed to have some curves! One bowl of cereal. one sandwich and an apple for lunch and a very small dinner puts me over 1000, not to mention drinks, beer, wine, biscuits, cake, more cake, supper.......
If you want to slim call me dave, read through the thread in Apres about the horizon programme which is all about a diet which seems to work.
OliviaDB, be careful or you'll be accused of sexism....blokes can count (quite well some of them!) except they always measure things bigger than they are....
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| snowyowl wrote: |
OliviaDB, pam w, If I could keep my calorie intake that low I'd be very skinny. Not that I want to be! Women are supposed to have some curves! One bowl of cereal. one sandwich and an apple for lunch and a very small dinner puts me over 1000, not to mention drinks, beer, wine, biscuits, cake, more cake, supper.......
If you want to slim call me dave, read through the thread in Apres about the horizon programme which is all about a diet which seems to work.
OliviaDB, be careful or you'll be accused of sexism....blokes can count (quite well some of them!) except they always measure things bigger than they are.... |
*could keep* implies you might want to. I don't think it's just counterproductive - I actually think it's borderline dangerous. If I'm dieting (and only doing moderate exercise), I lose a couple of lbs a week if I'm on 1200 (which I never stick to, so is more like 1400). Add real exercise, and if kept to consistently - would be radical and constant loss. Fewer calories than that ... *wibble*
Ha. My two sentences were separate. The calorie amount was even lower relative to maleness. The counting wasn't linked to sex. 
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Tue 26-03-13 11:55; edited 1 time in total
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OliviaDB, I think call me dave is female.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| pam w wrote: |
| OliviaDB, I think call me dave is female. |
Ahha - wasn't sure. Was just guessing on Daveness.
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*could keep* implies you might want to
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I might wnat to but I'm not going to...I love food too much!
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Was just guessing on Daveness.
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me too... 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Sorry, I am indeed female. Around the time I registered on here, I was one of 3 people in a group of 7 with the same name - being the last one to identify I said "....call me Dave". It stuck
pam w, I'm not small - 5ft6, but I have a broad frame (wide hips and shoulders) so my "natural" body weight is quite high.
The way I see it is that I simply use fewer calories than the average person - after all, 2000 is just an average. If I try and do 2000 a day it doesn't make me more energetic, it makes me more lethargic and I gain weight quickly. It doesn't help me burn energy through exercise either. To be useful I need to average 9-10 hours sleep a night, a run of 6 or 7 will have me falling asleep at my desk and too tired to exercise. Since I cut out wheat based stuff like bread, pasta and oddly, potatoes, I've been able to do some exercise after a day's which is helping a lot with alertness and general well-being. As well, being a low-energy type person seems to mean I'm prone to depression too which is fun. I'm pretty good at managing that and not thinking myself into a hole, but as you can imagine, not having the energy (or the weather, frankly) to be active does make it difficult to get natural highs. I don't have motivation. At all. Never have done.
All of that waffle is why I'm so keen to stick to snowboarding. It has really given me something to focus on over the winter, it's active enough to exercise *everything* but it's also something that takes practice and skill. I can do it on my own, I can use it to explore the world and it's also really good fun. Unfortunately it means facing the demons of diet again to lose a stone or two, and trying to find the impossible of something to eat that doesn't either set my IBS off or tastes so bad that not having anything at all is a better option.
snowyowl, the fasting diet is essentially what I'm on at the moment, since there's always a day or two a week where I just think "ah, forget it" and get a bag of cookies from Tescos It's given some really interesting food for though, if you'll pardon the pun.
OliviaDB, what do you consider moderate exercise? Whats your routine?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| call me dave wrote: |
| OliviaDB, what do you consider moderate exercise? Whats your routine? |
routine?! I wish. Moderate exercise is if I only do my 20min cycle commute (only happens Mon/Tues) + 2 x 2 hour jiu jitsu classes in a week.
Proper exercise is when I add in running x 2, a third jiu jitsu class, and a rock climbing session. Then it's something almost every day, though climbing isn't cardio. And jitsu isn't always.
THAT said - unless you do weights and stuff, exercise rarely burns enough calories to help with weight lose. It gets you stronger and healthier and better shaped, but if you're trying to lose weight, diet is actually more important. (Though not for health. If that makes sense.)
Best exercise for gorgeous abs: BJJ. I miss it.
Anyway - you might want to investigate your BMR. 2000 is too high for me, too - but 1000 is ... unusually low. A quick google says that the NHS considers it a 'very low calorie diet' which shouldn't be stuck to for more than X amount of time. I've no idea if the b0llocks about 'starvation mode' is untrue ... Definitely have more if you're not looking to lose weight.
(Also, weight/height as measurement of health is ... basic, at best. Compare models with athletes, for example.)
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OliviaDB, Now I feel very very lazy....
call me dave, hope your cookies are not wheat based then!
I do sympathise with your low energy situation...is your job quite boring? Or do you suffer from SAD? I used to feel like that when my job which I had loved changed and became unfulfilling and in the end I got so pissed off with it that I left...which brought other problems, but that's another story. I do think that we all need sunshine...roll on summer.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| call me dave wrote: |
| OliviaDB, just had to have a sit-down after reading that. Good god. To be fair though a lot of that sounds like good fun exercise which is the way it should be. |
Heh - I rarely manage more than 2 jiu jitsu classes a week atm. I'm feeling very naughty. The above is me at my most virtuous. And is vital as I love food more than ... well, I love food. Particularly cake, bread and cheese.
Note: this may seem to contradict my statement on the other post about not being able to out exercise a bad diet. I can't, and even with the above, have to behave. *sob*
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Poster: A snowHead
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Ah, the holy trinity of c's, the triumvirate of wrong - Cake, Chocolate, and Cheese.
You can upgrade almost any food by adding roquefort. FACT.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| call me dave wrote: |
Ah, the holy trinity of c's, the triumvirate of wrong - Cake, Chocolate, and Cheese.
You can upgrade almost any food by adding roquefort. FACT. |
*swoon* You know how to seduce me!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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call me dave, OliviaDB, and Red Wine...when you want a full on migraine!
I had acupuncture on my knee and it really helped. Did not hurt. I'm not particulrly needle-a-phobic though. What I didn't like or rate was when then physio tried electrical acupuncture ie applied a current to the needles.
I've just made 2 dozen chocolate krispie cakes with plain chocolate and tried hard not to lick the bowl out....
call me dave, have you thought of doing some voluntary work to give you some personal satisfaction? I work with Guides, have done Scouts, cook meals for an old people's day club and always feel valued and happy (if knackered) afterwards...it really kept me going when my job went downhill. Just a thought. Oh and get a slow cooker! It's a life saver for me. I too am bored of being cold. I'm still wearing my bed socks
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FAQ
