 Poster: A snowHead
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Hello,
The first time I had my Fischer Vacuum boots molded, a "feeling" method for lateral alignment was used, along with a fairly wide stance. Well, this made for AMAZING carving on the pistes. I noticed that my turns got very tight, and it was easier to ski across the fall line, keeping edges engaged. The downside? Well, any less-than-perfect snow conditions made me quiver.
I got a remold yesterday (for reasons not having to do with the lateral alignment), and we used a slightly narrower stance. But, the bootfitter adjusted the lateral alignment holders by visual inspection of where he thought my knee should be, instead of where is felt right.
Anyhow, if I'm not confident with the new lateral alignment, should I go back for a third re-mold to fix the problem? And, if so, how much should I emphasize the outward cant that I need?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Are you bowlegged
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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No, I'm not bowlegged. But, My knees feel too far inward, thus I'm pre-maturely releasing the downhill ski's inside edge pressure, thus making it very hard to continue with the bottom part of a carved turn on groomed/hard snow.
Before, the outward angle of the cuff was pronounced, and tight carving (even from larger radius skis) was effortless.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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OnPisteSkier, are you prone to over analysis?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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OnPisteSkier, go ski them, you might like them, just wondering why you had them set up "wide" in the first place.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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OnPisteSkier, if you feel too inward then you cant inward, in purely oversimplified terms The outward cant will make you more on an inside edge if this is your "problem" which it probably isn't .
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| gatecrasher wrote: |
| OnPisteSkier, go ski them, you might like them, just wondering why you had them set up "wide" in the first place. |
I've spent about five hours skiing in them. The only downside is the turn shapes.
Because first bootfitter set them up for carving/racing (which is 90% of what I do anyway), so he set the stance wide, and I said "great."
The set stance this time is still by no means narrow, but this time the bootfitter initially set a "wide" stance, and I thought to myself "no way." It just felt way too wide than I'd think I'd be skiing. I told him (go a millimeter narrower), so he went about five. Oh well.
Just now I put on the boots. The cuff is still indeed out-wardly tilted, and for the most part the center of my knee does appear to be aligned with the scribed line on the front of the boot (OK, maybe not to the nanometer, but it's pretty much centered).
Perhaps my technique for those 25 days of over-canting adjusted to it, and I'll have to re-adjust.
HOWEVER, transitioning from a right to left turn, especially when it's a left-to-right fall-line, is exceedingly difficult, and wasn't before. I guess I'm wondering if that alone is grounds for doing another re-mold.
The other thing is this time the bootfitter loaded up giant cork pads on both sides of my feet, and there's a lot of room in there now. He could barely buckle the boots. If I do it again I'd use the thinner cork pads.
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OnPisteSkier, I'm still wondering why they set you up with an overly wide stance in the first place, imho I think it would cause more harm than good for carving ultimately, sounds like somethings wrong re left/right turns though.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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What is boot canting used for?
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Elston, from my understanding its mainly to put the knee in a biometrically strong position over the skis, and also to allows for people with lower leg extremes to run on flat skis, but the op appears to be saying they set his normal legs to a wide stance with the cuffs more outboard, which if he adopted a normal stance with knees over feet would put him on his inside edges while straight running...or possibly put his knees outside his feet trying to adopt a normal stance with skis flat, we need an expert to explain I reckon 
Maybe something different about these vacuum boots?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| gatecrasher wrote: |
| OnPisteSkier, I'm still wondering why they set you up with an overly wide stance in the first place, imho I think it would cause more harm than good for carving ultimately, sounds like somethings wrong re left/right turns though. |
First bootfitter said that a wide stance was good for racing. Which is true, I suppose. You don't see good racers skiing around with their feet together.
Second bootfitter started out wide, then went excessively narrower to appease my mindless decision to go narrower. At the time, I wasn't considering the implications of molding the boot with the narrower stance.
I suppose at the root of this is me being hesitant about the possibility a third fit goes wrong yet again, in this or any one of a number of other ways. I'm getting closer to the maximum five fittings, at which point you can no longer fit. On the other hand, the point of these boots is to get everything dialed in perfectly.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Why would you want boots that tried to force you in to an unnatural stance? I'd have thought it was best to setup your boot alignment into a natural stance where all your joints work as effectively as they can. If that means that your skis don't run flat when you stand naturally change the base board or add some external shimming arrangement. If you set up your kit to give you extra advantage when carving what happens when you don't want to carve?
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| Quote: |
First bootfitter said that a wide stance was good for racing. Which is true, I suppose. You don't see good racers skiing around with their feet together
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OnPisteSkier, although this has been done before... would you say this racer has adopted an unusually wide stance, would you say he's a good racer?
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On the other hand, the point of these boots is to get everything dialed in perfectly.
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agree but it seems like you are having to change your stance with each adjustment..I'm not sure you should "have" to do this?
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You know it makes sense.
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OnPisteSkier, are you in a race club? If you're not then it might be a good place to start.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Ahhh, Mister Ligety! Yes, I remember someone telling me his stance (such as in that photo) is technically very "narrow" in the one sense.
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For those not familiar, the Vacuum fit machine has two metal platforms you stand on that slide sideways independently of one another to allow for a certain stance width when molding. Lots of customers use the machine to get molded, so unless you take a photo or document something, it's tough to know where you got molded.
As it were, I feel the new stance width is actually fine. The thing is, molding with a wide stance, the knee cradle which holds you in desired alignment would have you bowing your knees WAY out of physiological state (to keep boots flat on platform), thus creating a very positive (outward) cant, which tilts skis inward more easily.
I suppose if I did it again, I would keep the realistic stance width, but perhaps request the knee get aligned a little to the outside. I'd also take it easy on the cork pads, perhaps choosing the narrower of the two cork widths (but that's a horse of a different color).
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Poster: A snowHead
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Wide Stance=Hip width First met at this width, Modern Narrow= Hip width 4th Met at this width. That's at least our take.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Elston wrote: |
| OnPisteSkier, are you in a race club? If you're not then it might be a good place to start. |
Yes, I'm in a race club. Well, sort of. Probably not the kind of race club someone is thinking of.
...
Anyhow, screw it, I didn't spend an arm and leg on those boots to settle for sub-par snow performance. I'm doing a third fit, and heck, if that isn't right I'll do a fourth if I have to.
Ahhh, feels good to declare this on the interwebz.
I do appreciate the information in this thread.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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OnPisteSkier, if you want to ski like a racer then a ski race club would be a great place to get some pointers on boots, skis and (if you are interested) technique. However, most people on here will just go and see CEM in Bicester and he will make the big decisions for them. Not sure where you are getting your boots fitted but I hope that it works out for you this time.
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