 Poster: A snowHead
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I thought I would come on here and give some advice. I went skiing in Slovenia in early Feb for the first time.
I'm 40, but very fit and a black belt, studying karate since I was 13. I had a young instructor, early 20s, recommended by friends. He wanted to get me off the nursery slope after one run down - this was after 10 minutes of skiing for the first time in my life. I refused. After 45 minutes he eventually persuaded me onto the main piste. I picked things ok and after a couple of hours had got the hang of it and he left me to it.
While still not confident in my skills, I carried on zig-zagging fairly well. Unfortunately on my final run down I went a little too fast and could stop when I touched onto a very steep icy part of the run. I couldn't stop and went flying, tumbling over and over for some time. By the time I stopped my legs were all over the place, like I was playing a game if twister AND THE SKIS WERE STILL ON AFTER FALLING AND ROLLING FOR ALL THAT TIME. Consequently one ski had wrenched my left knee around so badly I could barely move around and beat the bindings off my feet.
Weeks later I have now discovered after an MRI that my ACL ligament has completely ruptured. For the next year I will have to rehab for karate, and my biggest fear of all is that it may impact karate long-term.
IT TURNED OUT THAT THE BINDINGS MY INSTRUCTOR LENT ME WERE FIXED EXTREMELY TIGHTLY, SUITABLE ONLY FOR AN EXPERT SKIER. THIS ACCIDENT HAS HAD A DEVASTATING IMPACT ON MY LIFE - PLEASE CHECK THAT YOUR BINDINGS ARE LOOSE ENOUGH TO RELEASE WHEN FALLING, ESSENTIAL FOR NOVICES.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Wow, sucks to be you, although I am impressed that as a beginner you managed to get enough speed to keep 'tumbling over and over for some time'.
Good tip to check your DIN settings before you start, but no need to shout it.
Nice stealth boast about the karate by the way!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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proteus really sorry to hear that. The opposite is also true of course, if your bindings are on too low a DIN setting for your ability and they release at the wrong time you're also in a world of hurt.
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proteus, bindings your instructor lent to you? So you didn't go to a hire shop where they would have provided you with bindings with the DIN set for a beginner? That's your mistake right there, although a painful an unpleasant one. Hope you heal up, many on here have returned to skiing after the same injury.
Edited to fix the predictive text correction.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Tue 5-03-13 16:32; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Also if you've had your own skis for a few years and only ski a few weeks a year etc so everything still looks shiny and new, when was the last time you had the bindings checked to see if e.g. DIN 7 actually releases at the correct torque.
Had mine tested a few years back and what I thought was 7.5 was actually far less, cue new bindings...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Good post. Binding settings are something easily overlooked by a beginner. How are beginners to know anything about DIN settings? Most people on here will know about such things, but if you've never been skiing before why should know about it?
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| Zero-G wrote: |
| proteus, bindings your instructor lent to you? So you didn't go to a hire shop where they would have provided you with bindings with the DIN set for a beginner? That's your mistake right there, although a painful an unpleasant one. Hope you heal up, many on here have returned to skiing after the same I jury. |
Yes, I went to the hire shop as the boots lent to me were tight around the calfs. However, the hire shop boots were also just as tight. I should make it clear that I appreciate they should be tight, though there's extremely snug and then there's too tight. I'm size 10.5, I even tried on size 11.5 in the hire shop to see if the calf area would be more accommodating but they weren't, so just stuck with his. I have fairly typical calfs so found it very odd. But yes, in hindsight I should have done lost of things differently.
I just wanted to come on here and give my experience in case anyone else is about to try skiing, I'd hate anyone to go through what I'm going through unneccesarily.
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proteus, I don't want to distract from your helpful warning to beginners but I'm confused, what do too-tight boots have to do with the bindings?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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proteus, Sorry to hear about your injury and you're right to mention bindings and it's true that beginners often have no idea about what they are, what level they should be set at, and would never question what an 'expert' gives them.
I have no doubt that the situation seems really bleak but I promise you, this injury will not have a devastating impact on your life. Everything you read on the internet seems so awful - painful operation, horrendously long and boring rehab etc.... the reality these days (I think there have been great improvements in the treatment process) is nowhere near as bad as it seems. If you search for 'ACL' on the forum, you'll find a lot of positive stories about the recovery from the injury - you could even post about your own progress on them... people will be interested and supportive. Good luck. 
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dobby, most people who don't have their own skis also go to a hire shop and fill out a form and have their bindings set correctly.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Only ski on skis which you know have the correct setting for you.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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proteus, at least two serious mistakes there, probably both by the instructor. As well as the bindings issue, there's no way an absolute novice should move in one go from a nursery slope to one where a fall would lead to an uncontrollable tumble/slide.
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proteus, best of luck with your injury. I had an ACL reconstruction in 2005, I have skied a number of times since and I am back playing hockey as well. That knee feels rock solid and I am really glad I had the surgery.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Tue 5-03-13 16:51; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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So if I understand this, the instructor lent the OP loose boots and overly tight skis? What did the instructor ski on?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| airbornebadger wrote: |
Wow, sucks to be you, although I am impressed that as a beginner you managed to get enough speed to keep 'tumbling over and over for some time'.
Good tip to check your DIN settings before you start, but no need to shout it.
Nice stealth boast about the karate by the way! |
Just out of curiosity: I was told my DIN setting at the local dry slope a few weeks ago. But when I go skiing soon i will be skiing in different boots and will be hiring skis from the hire shop in resort. Will my DIN setting change based on me having new boots and different skis compared to the ones from the dry slope? Or does it make no difference?
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Poster: A snowHead
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proteus, your instincts concerning the slopes were correct. I've taught hundreds of first-day beginners (admittedly over 30 years ago) and you never ever progress people to terrain beyond their ability. The first day - at least - should be spent entirely on the flat (30 mins+), very gentle slope (1-2 hours), and then gentle slopes with a bit more pitch. But always a run-out of the slope to stop without worrying about it.
As for the bindings and ACL injuries, it's sadly the case that even well-adjusted bindings can fail to protect the knee from this specific injury. It can occur with state-of-the-art bindings, perfectly set to the correct DIN etc., but not able to detect a low-speed fall that threatens the ACL.
However, your fall sounds serious enough to trigger a release at some point in the fall - hopefully before the ACL was threatened.
All that is no consolation to you ... but the instructor's approach sounds dangerously ambitious for you, and you paid the price. It's important to teach people gently enough that they don't fall much. Falling is always a risk.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| laundryman wrote: |
| proteus, at least two serious mistakes there, probably both by the instructor. As well as the bindings issue, there's no way an absolute novice should move in one go from a nursery slope to one where a fall would lead to an uncontrollable tumble/slide. |
And he should never have left you on that slope, but accompanied you back to the nursery slope lift at the very least.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I don't suppose beating the bindings off as opposed to using the lever at the back to unclip them would have helped your knee either.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| jimmybog wrote: |
| airbornebadger wrote: |
Wow, sucks to be you, although I am impressed that as a beginner you managed to get enough speed to keep 'tumbling over and over for some time'.
Good tip to check your DIN settings before you start, but no need to shout it.
Nice stealth boast about the karate by the way! |
Just out of curiosity: I was told my DIN setting at the local dry slope a few weeks ago. But when I go skiing soon i will be skiing in different boots and will be hiring skis from the hire shop in resort. Will my DIN setting change based on me having new boots and different skis compared to the ones from the dry slope? Or does it make no difference? |
Should be based on height/weight/experience and boot length IIRC
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Zero-G wrote: |
| proteus, I don't want to distract from your helpful warning to beginners but I'm confused, what do too-tight boots have to do with the bindings? |
Sorry, I'm not being clear. I was subsequently made aware that the settings for the ski bindings I borrowed were set suitably tight for an expert and that they should be looser for beginners. This was all too apparent given the fact that they didn't release after the sustained fall I experienced.
Separate to this, the boots lent to me by my instructor and also the ones I tried in the hire shop all seemed very tight around my legs. My instructor and the shop agreed they seemed very tight, with the buckles only just being able to catch the last tooth, and only then by being pushed tightly by myself and my instructor. The hire shop staff also struggled to get the buckles to clip on on their boots. Not sure why, my calfs aren't rugby players sized.
Sorry, it's not really relevant to main thrust of my post, I just mentioned in response to one reply.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| jimmybog wrote: |
| airbornebadger wrote: |
Wow, sucks to be you, although I am impressed that as a beginner you managed to get enough speed to keep 'tumbling over and over for some time'.
Good tip to check your DIN settings before you start, but no need to shout it.
Nice stealth boast about the karate by the way! |
Just out of curiosity: I was told my DIN setting at the local dry slope a few weeks ago. But when I go skiing soon i will be skiing in different boots and will be hiring skis from the hire shop in resort. Will my DIN setting change based on me having new boots and different skis compared to the ones from the dry slope? Or does it make no difference? |
It's calculated on your weight, the sole length of the boot, gender, and your ability. Height and/or length of skis are commonly mistaken to be involved but in fact don't come into it. Google " AFNOR Din ski " or similar for details.
edited: Forgot gender!
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Tue 5-03-13 16:54; edited 1 time in total
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| Thornyhill wrote: |
| jimmybog wrote: |
| airbornebadger wrote: |
Wow, sucks to be you, although I am impressed that as a beginner you managed to get enough speed to keep 'tumbling over and over for some time'.
Good tip to check your DIN settings before you start, but no need to shout it.
Nice stealth boast about the karate by the way! |
Just out of curiosity: I was told my DIN setting at the local dry slope a few weeks ago. But when I go skiing soon i will be skiing in different boots and will be hiring skis from the hire shop in resort. Will my DIN setting change based on me having new boots and different skis compared to the ones from the dry slope? Or does it make no difference? |
Should be based on height/weight/experience and boot length IIRC |
Thanks. The fact my new boots are now the correct size rather than my previous oversize ones means they could be a different length. I'll make sure the hire shop is aware of this and adjusts the settings accordingly if required
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| Hells Bells wrote: |
| I don't suppose beating the bindings off as opposed to using the lever at the back to unclip them would have helped your knee either. |
It was the lever I was trying to hit to release, it was just a struggle given I was in an awkward position, injured and in pain, so had to stretch back and reach for them with my arm and was at such a stretch I had bang them down.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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proteus, Sorry to hear about that. Hopefully you will be on the mend soon and if you are otherwise fit and healthy it will make your recovery all the stronger.
Out of interest, what is your weight and do you know what setting where the bindings set? Your weight does have an impact on how tight the bindings are set.
It is unfortunate but sometimes ski bindings do not always release particularly during an awkward fall. The type of fall can have an impact on the ski bindings not releasing. It might sound odd but learning to fall correctly is really important.
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Elston, is quite right, it does depend how you fall. Most ACLS are done twisting gently backwards at slow speed, a speed and fall so gentle it doesn't engage the release on the bindings. That's how I did mine back in 2009...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| proteus wrote: |
| Hells Bells wrote: |
| I don't suppose beating the bindings off as opposed to using the lever at the back to unclip them would have helped your knee either. |
It was the lever I was trying to hit to release, it was just a struggle given I was in an awkward position, injured and in pain, so had to stretch back and reach for them with my arm and was at such a stretch I had bang them down. |
that brings back memories of when I did mine. I was literally screaming in pain and hubby had to release my skis for me. There was no way I could have done it. You really have my sympathy.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Elston wrote: |
proteus, Sorry to hear about that. Hopefully you will be on the mend soon and if you are otherwise fit and healthy it will make your recovery all the stronger.
Out of interest, what is your weight and do you know what setting where the bindings set? Your weight does have an impact on how tight the bindings are set.
It is unfortunate but sometimes ski bindings do not always release particularly during an awkward fall. The type of fall can have an impact on the ski bindings not releasing. It might sound odd but learning to fall correctly is really important. |
I can't remember the settings, but was advised they were not suitably loose for a novice. I'm 6'1" and 14st or so, probably pointless info without the bidding setting details though.
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I may be doing the place a disservice but are the instructors, ski techs and slope management in Slovenia up to scratch? Or maybe all of this is just an unfortunate "accident" that could happen anywhere.
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You know it makes sense.
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| proteus wrote: |
| Elston wrote: |
proteus, Sorry to hear about that. Hopefully you will be on the mend soon and if you are otherwise fit and healthy it will make your recovery all the stronger.
Out of interest, what is your weight and do you know what setting where the bindings set? Your weight does have an impact on how tight the bindings are set.
It is unfortunate but sometimes ski bindings do not always release particularly during an awkward fall. The type of fall can have an impact on the ski bindings not releasing. It might sound odd but learning to fall correctly is really important. |
I can't remember the settings, but was advised they were not suitably loose for a novice. I'm 6'1" and 14st or so, probably pointless info without the bidding setting details though. |
There were probably set the French way, which is just to take your weight in kilos and turn the screwdriver until it matches up (90kilos = 9 on the dial). This is completely incorrect and unsafe* but it's practised by nearly every French ski tech and instructor I've ever met.
*The length of the boot is important because it's effectively a lever.
I guess in your case as a Martial Arts practitioner your leg muscles are already in pretty good shape so hopefully you'll make a speedier recovery than the average Joe. Good luck.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Am a little confused here. Your instructor lent you some bindings and boots you say. So you had your own skis and just needed boots and bindings? Who was this instructor? From the ski school? Properly qualified?
As far as I would be concerend a beginner should go to the hire shop and give their details to the people in the shop so that the correct settings can be set for the individual. Also gives you a chance to try on various types of boot to get a decent fit.
Does sound like this was all carried out by friends of friends who cobbled together some kit and someone to teach you and sent you up the mountain.
Sorry to hear of your injury but maybe a little research (and perhaps new friends?) would have been advisable in hindsight?
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Poster: A snowHead
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flangesax, I know. Still think it's a reasonable post to inform/remind people of the possible problems of bindings that are cranked up too tight. And, as mentioned by albinomountainbadger, the settings are sometimes wrong even when supposedly adjusted in the hire shop.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| jibber wrote: |
Am a little confused here. Your instructor lent you some bindings and boots you say. So you had your own skis and just needed boots and bindings? Who was this instructor? From the ski school? Properly qualified?
As far as I would be concerend a beginner should go to the hire shop and give their details to the people in the shop so that the correct settings can be set for the individual. Also gives you a chance to try on various types of boot to get a decent fit.
Does sound like this was all carried out by friends of friends who cobbled together some kit and someone to teach you and sent you up the mountain.
Sorry to hear of your injury but maybe a little research (and perhaps new friends?) would have been advisable in hindsight? |
No, it was all lent to me by the instructor, boots and skis. He wasn't set up in any ski school, just someone who was a friend of a friend of my sisters.
I had gone out intending to go to the hire shop but he lent me his when I turned up, although as I say they were a bit too tight so I tried the hire shop anyway. I have to say, the hire shop didn't offer any alternatives to the tight fitting ones I tried on and I would have obviously liked to have got a pair that fitted, but sadly they didn't seem to have any options when they saw I wasn't getting on with them. I was surprised there weren't different width options etc.
Perhaps Krvavec isn't as well set up as other resorts.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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No reason to question Slo instructing generally but instructors should know that there it is a definite no no not to have ski bindings always set by a qualiffied Technichian given the potential increased risk for injury. I set my own because I know the settings Technicians set for me to and I've come out of them enough times to know they are right. I might suggest to friends they get their bindings checked if they are coming out too easy or they look too stiff but would never set them. No reason that a beginner should know all the details. Just that they should be set by qualified technichian and that they should be honest about their detials that they give the technician.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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proteus, I'm beginning to doubt the "instructor" had any qualifications at all.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thanks for clearing that up - doesnt take much to confuse me! Hope you have a speedy recovery and it hasnt put you off skiing for life.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Tue 5-03-13 17:39; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| laundryman wrote: |
| proteus, I'm beginning to doubt the "instructor" had any qualifications at all. |
Me too. Moving from a nursery slope to a steeper slope within one run doesn't sound like a great way to develop a good foundation of skills, and might well have contributed to the fall. A ruptured ACL on the first week of skiing is very unfortunate - best wishes for a full recovery and hope you haven't been put off skiing.
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| Quote: |
| No, it was all lent to me by the instructor, boots and skis. He wasn't set up in any ski school, just someone who was a friend of a friend of my sisters. |
Right here is where you went wrong.
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Many thanks for the supportive messages, and sorry for the lack of clarity within my original post.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| proteus wrote: |
| No, it was all lent to me by the instructor, boots and skis. He wasn't set up in any ski school, just someone who was a friend of a friend of my sisters. |
So not at all an instructor then??
Weird thread.
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Maybe the title is wrong
Warning for beginners - make sure your instructor is actually an instructor.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Wed 6-03-13 11:45; edited 1 time in total
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