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Ski touring Boots, your 2 pence worth please

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
hello every one, I am looking at getting a new set of ski boots. I will tour, and ski down hill in my marker bindings. So I would like your 2 pence worth about:

The Black Diamond Factor (that fact that I could change the sole and ski normal bindings is tempting)

The Black Diamond Quadrant (the Maestrale is lighter but has less ankle moment and lower flex)

The Scarpa maestrale (has the RS improved over the normal, also lower flex than the BD boots)
The Scarpa maestrale RS. (is its worth the extra money, is it too stiff)

About me 169cm(5 foot Cool, 78KG(About 12 stone 3), I would say I am a type 2 skier (http://www.skis.com/Determining-Your-Skier-Type/article-determining-your-skier-type,default,pg.html) level 8 ski-ing and I like off piste more than ski areas. I will be trying to earn my skiing by walking up hill in the uk a LOT!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I'm pretty certain that Scarpa and Black Diamond boots have very different fits. You should hunt down a bootfitter with a reasonable range of boots for you to compare.

Swappable soles are done by several manufacturers... Tecnica Cochise, Salomon Quest and Scarpa Freedom spring to mind. If you aren't using alpine bindings or you already have some alpine boots, you're paying a bit of a premium for swappable soles and there's a weight penalty too.

AT boot flex numbers are definitely not comparable between manufacturers.

Get a boot with tech binding fittings in it. You won't regret it.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
HI Serriadh, I have stupid shaped feet. Wide shallow front, highish instep and VERY narrow heels. So that may explain why they seem to fit. I could not get comfort in any of the Garmont or salomon range. Good point about the weight of sole units. The BD factor is a weighty beast. I think I may order two boots and spent a pair back, so that should be the Maestrale RS and the Quadrant?
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The Quadrant is made by ALDI, The Factor needs to be sent to the sun in order to be stretched, the Maestrale's walk mode WILL fail at some point, Garmont don't make boots anymore, they have a range of buckle up bathtubs, The Scarpa Freedome doesn't exist in our curret space and time continuum, the Coshise is the best all round boot ever made.
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CH2O wrote:
the Coshise is the best all round boot ever made.
So, you would recommend the Cochise over and above the Dynafit Titan ultralight (if I wanted a ski boot for both alpine and tech bindings, i.e.)?
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My new Cochise Pros feel pretty gotdamn good; light with all the stiffness I need.
Seem to have absorbed my high-instep problem with a minumum amount of hassle by the in-resort fitter over a couple of day. Also have accomodated my wide feet.
(Their lack of weight is bliss on a stick. Walk mode lovely. Somebody reckons they saw me "dancing" apres ski while wearing them but that simply cannot be true; like seeing Keith Richards in the gym).

It nice to know I can step up to tech bindings (very likely) next season or stay with my old Rotomat-style FKSs (unlikely) as I chose.
I was dithering over buying them when a recommendation by CH20 convinced me the Cochise were worth a punt and so it has proved.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Zero-G, It's out of production, and yes the Cochise is way way better.
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Big Paua wrote:
Also have accomodated my wide feet.


Puzzled I thought they were a narrow fit (98mm last)

Edit Looks like they do a lot of different models ....

http://youtube.com/v/w6OCT8PFxO0

I like the walk/ski switch

http://youtube.com/v/j8plsXQMgbQ
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DB wrote:
I thought they were a narrow fit (98mm last)


The 130 Pro is 98mm lasted, but the rest are 100mm I believe (or at least, they're all the same, and wider than the pro).
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Serriadh wrote:
DB wrote:
I thought they were a narrow fit (98mm last)


The 130 Pro is 98mm lasted, but the rest are 100mm I believe (or at least, they're all the same, and wider than the pro).

That's correct. Don't forget that the last width is for a 26 mondo boot & then goes up/down with the sizes.
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I've got some Dynafit Zzeus, and while they are damned good boots, the flex rating of 85 means that they are only good for cruising when not touring as they get overpowered easily on proper downhill runs.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
This Tecnica plastic is among the easiest to stretch(burn) in the world, don't worry about you bootfitter being able to widen it by a good couple of cms.
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feef,

Titan is stiffer than the Zzeus, I put intuition liners in my titans and booster straps on them which beefed them up a bit.
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/78437-AT-Boot-Flex-Comparative-List-by-model

but the Cochise looks to be a lot stiffer although not without problems (e.g. leaking and cold toes)
http://www.epicski.com/t/115330/tecnica-cochise-130-pro-review-s

Might try the Cochise on to see how it fits.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
DB wrote:
feef,

Titan is stiffer than the Zzeus, I put intuition liners in my titans and booster straps on them which beefed them up a bit.
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/78437-AT-Boot-Flex-Comparative-List-by-model


I should have done more research before I bought them then Very Happy
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
+1 for the Cochise.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
CH2O, you're havin a laugh, be lucky if it would last a typical season of abuse. You said it yourself "This Tecnica plastic is among the easiest to stretch(burn) in the world" that's because it's so damn flimsy!

It's a boot designed for the wannabe ski tourer, who might only venture uphill once or twice a year.

You get what you pay for, think the UK RRP is circa £240 nigh on £200 cheaper than most of the serious brands..........you only have to look at the bling elements of it, more poundland than Lidl Smile
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Do they make a boot with 95mm width?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Weathercam, wanna see some pics of a pair that have done a couple more outings than that? One of the best big mountain steep skiers there is, uses them every damn day. You want light? If not wait and see next years K2, practically the same boot, 500gms heaveir per boot, tougher for sure. I have to agree though, initially (last year) we were sceptical of how the plastic would hold up in Cham; new mountains, rocks and glacial stuff n that, seems we had no need to worry. Perhaps when you've sold 100 pairs you'll change your mind. I got mine as a; do all, no comprimse boot that I can run after my little one in, very pleased thankyou, merci, au revoir, bizous
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Grillamid vs Pebax vs Triax
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Just to add that Scott have bought Garmont's factory and kept their staff; Scott's range of boots for next year look very much like Garmonts of old. Improvements to come perhaps?

Quote:
Scott announced that it will launch a new line of boots, including freeski performance, ski mountaineering, and telemark models for winter 2013/14.


http://www.outsideonline.com/blog/outdoor-adventure/snow-sports/skiing-and-snowboarding/scott-announces-new-ski-boot-line.html


Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Wed 6-03-13 9:03; edited 4 times in total
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Fall Line Magazine "Sitting firmly in the Freeride touring category, the Cochise brings the convenience of a walk mode to skiers who occasionally tour and don't need a super stiff boot for their everyday skiing".

Of course what more would I expect from Freeride wannabe's in "Cham" Smile

Couple of additional pointers, sole on that boot not exactly suitable for scrambling around on shale and climbing with crampons, plus not Dynafit compatible.

Bet I won't see any in La Grave Smile
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Weathercam wrote:
plus not Dynafit compatible.


Bzzzt. You may have just invalidated all your previous complaints, by dint of not knowing enough about the boot wink (hint: the tecnica touring soles are dynafit compatible)

The walk mode is fine for skinning. The sole is flat though and not rockered, so it probably isn't much fun for actual hiking on hard ground, but if you've slapped crampons on them they'll be no better or worse than any other ski boot in that regard. I can't speak about durability, I've only put 4 weeks into mine. Liner (last year's light liner; no idea what this year's are like) was a bit packed out after 3, which is a little disappointing.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I've got a mate skiing on last years Cochise and he really likes them apart from the cuff coming loose and gaining quite a lot of lateral play. He needs to relatively routinely tighten it back down but that might be fixed in this years models. One boot also developed a tendency to find it's way into walk mode whilst we were skiing in Japan. He's a big guy though and has put over 80 days on them.

Personally I'm loving the Dynafit Mercurys I switched over too this year, super awesome walk mode, much stiffer than the Radiums I was previously on and beautifully simple design.

Weathercam, the Pro Light version has tech fittings.
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Quote:

Fall Line Magazine "Sitting firmly in the Freeride touring category, the Cochise brings the convenience of a walk mode to skiers who occasionally tour and don't need a super stiff boot for their everyday skiing".



You read "Fallline" I understand everything now!
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Quote:

Of course what more would I expect from Freeride wannabe's in "Cham"


Bless you!
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Quote:

Couple of additional pointers, sole on that boot not exactly suitable for scrambling around on shale and climbing with crampons, plus not Dynafit compatible.


Is your head in your ass?
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Here's a photo of some non dynafit compatable boots, two years old, used everyday to open new Steeps in Chamonix by Pro Wannabee Skier Dave Rosenbarger, he climbs 800m 60° Couloirs, in crampons, on rock and "shale", of which theres a fair bit in L'egoland.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I did my best to make them look as Be Nice please! up as possible.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Some info I found on the dynafit boots - might be of use to someone.
http://www.wildsnow.com/6542/vulcan-mercury-dynafit/
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Weathercam wrote:
CH2O, you're havin a laugh, be lucky if it would last a typical season of abuse. You said it yourself "This Tecnica plastic is among the easiest to stretch(burn) in the world" that's because it's so damn flimsy!

It's a boot designed for the wannabe ski tourer, who might only venture uphill once or twice a year.

You get what you pay for, think the UK RRP is circa £240 nigh on £200 cheaper than most of the serious brands..........you only have to look at the bling elements of it, more poundland than Lidl Smile


It's designed for people who want to skin for a couple of hours to get to a line, then have no compromise on the way down - and use the one boot for all their skiing. No, not for weightweenies who want to do long tours, but that was never the point.

They are dynafit compatible.
They come in various flexes, stiffest being 130, so not exactly for people who 'don't need a super-stiff flex'
I've been using and abusing mine since November, no concerns re durability here, it's just not an issue.

You should have learned not to take Fall Line reviews seriously by now (c'mon dude!), but it sounds like you've been reading about a different boot anyway.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Cochise Light Pro Dyn and 130 Pro are our bag, albeit we've had to run nearly the entire range just to service demand by all the "Wannabees". Shell only the Cochise Light Pro Dyn are 200 grams heavier than a Vulcan, ok they don't have 60° ROM but that's a red herring in it's self, unless your legs are 120cm plus!! The Cochise out skis the Vulcan and as my photo's prove, they'll gain you access to anywhere. Proof of the pudding is in the eating, not sitting on a couch vommiting reworded marketing bullshite. Merci, Caio, Au revoir, merci. Bizous. xx
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
CH2O, I've definitely notice a big difference in the walk mode switching from the Radiums over to the Mercurys. The latter feel like you're swanning around in B3 boots. You might not ever need the full ROM but having it is night and day from the restrictive feeling of not having it and maxing out the rear travel. Also the much more rockered sole and shorter overall length help a lot IMO if you actually end up doing a lot of wandering around in them. The OP for example might have a lot more use for that.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Mercury is certainly the best Pure Tourer, guides a gogo using them all day everyday, that said there have guides that can't get on with the Cochise due to the alpine feel, make your own judgements there.
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Whilst we're on the subject, where's the bloke that wears TLT5 and uses Lo Tec, the one that claims his set up skis better than alpine race boots and bindings, he's good for a wet crotched pair of jeans.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
CH2O, so Cham man, how much touring /mountaineering have you actually done rather than just jumping on your retail hype bandwagon?

Still say you get what you pay for, and my initial comments were made on looking at that yOutube, seeing the wannabe bling and cheap looking buckles and seeing the price, and lack of a decent climbing sole.

Though I suppose, Cham from around now on is populated by wannabes on their first tour, the Haute, so I take it back this boot is probably ideal for them Smile

Now this dude on the left really knows his stuff and would tear your legs off !



Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Wed 6-03-13 12:14; edited 2 times in total
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Done with you, you ill informed, you tube educated fop. I was a mountaineer before discovering skiing 18 years ago, Lived in L'egoland for 13 years, haven't skied more than 20 days in the last 4 as I launched a retail Bandwagon and made love to a female in order to prolong my DNA. I now keep busy educating retards such as yourself on boot physics/chemistry and human biomechanics. And yes, thanks, the Retail Bandwagon is currently growing like my son, faster than I can feed it. Are you in the Eagle ski club, bet a million you are! Merci, Caio, Au revoir, Bizous, Cnut
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The above is dedicated to my friend, Frosty the Postman
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Maybe you should so some simple searching to see what I've done and who I am, have skied with etc Smile
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Now this dude on the left really knows his stuff and would tear your legs off !

Somehow that's my vision of you, and yes, he would tear my legs off when he finds out which Couloir I took his wife up.
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Weathercam, I couldn't give a toss, where you've been skiing and with whom. Many make the mistake of thinking that their skiing history validates their boot opinions, I speak with people everyday that ski masses and I listen, observe and combine it with my understanding of the products I sell to different people everyday, come back to me when your mind can be opened and you have some idea of how many boots I've fitted and to Who! Cnut


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